19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[classy]

Proof she was just simply knocking on the door. Also I believe it has been said that the outer screen door was locked.

Police, no signs of attempted break in. Knocking no matter how loudly is not an attempted break in. And I have posted 3 clear and distinct situations that show what an attempted break in is.

 

[nehalem256]

Racially motivated huh? Outside of her underage drinking and drunk driving, do you have any proof she was thief or any other kind of law breaker? Or is it just par for the course to accuse a person of such based solely on racial stereotypes. There have been a whole lot of people on this planet who have gotten drunk? So everyone who is drunk is a deviant now?

According to the ME she also smoked pot.

And as an essential detail of the story she also fled the scene of an accident.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I absolutely do. Statements by home owner and his attorney. His attorney assures us this is a clear cut case of defense of home from repeated attempts at entry.

A typical ploy in home invasions is to have a female beg for help and try to push in. Then her buddies bum rush the door once there is an ounce of opportunity.

I've asked you repeatedly now to provide these statements from the accused or his lawyer where they explicitly state she was trying to enter and her specific actions. You've yet to do so while still making this claim. Please show the statements where they say anything other than he believed someone was trying to break in as that does not show she was actually trying to enter.

 

[classy]

According to the ME she also smoked pot.

And as an essential detail of the story she also fled the scene of an accident.

Let me explain once again, none of this had anything to do with her being shot. The ME said at the time of her death the level of joint in her system was not significant. Even still we know she had interacted with at least one person after the accident and she was not violent or robbing people, lol. This guy is going to need a whole of something to come to light to keep him out of jail.

 

[umbrella39]

I absolutely do. Statements by home owner.

Really? I'd be interested to hear/read those statements. So far, the only statements I have heard/read from the shooter are this and made directly after the shooting:

"I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun banging on my front door."

Note how the homeowner's version and the one the spidey account has conceived differ in that the shooter states he just shot someone NOT trying to get into his house, NOT someone trying to break into his house, NOT someone jiggling his door handle, NOT someone trying to enter his side door, NOT someone who he felt his life was in danger front... but in the own shooter's words and his first thought to explain what had just happened... someone banging on his FRONT door.

His own words I think are going to betray his case here but please keep going... as a gun owner I always welcome the views from all spectrums of the gun debate spectrum regarding this case. As someone who has been in almost an exact same situation armed with a similar mossberg with guys banging on my porch in the middle of the night down Warren on the other side of the Southfield freeway from where this happened I am going to keep a keep eye on this case. I know I was scared shitless for my and everyone in the house's life that night but I handled it completely different than this home owner did thank God.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Police, no signs of attempted break in. Knocking no matter how loudly is not an attempted break in. And I have posted 3 clear and distinct situations that show what an attempted break in is.

So what signs would be seen from someone trying to push in a screen door?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm waiting to see if his storm door was open (left open intentionally or by accident that night) and only the screen door separated him from the person trying to get in.

 

[M0RPH]

As someone who has been in almost an exact same situation armed with a similar mossberg with guys banging on my porch in the middle of the night down Warren on the other side of the Southfield freeway from where this happened I am going to keep a keep eye on this case. I know I was scared shitless for my and everyone in the house's life that night but I handled it completely different than this home owner did thank God.

Ok, I'm curious, what happened in your case?

 

[classy]

So what signs would be seen from someone trying to push in a screen door?

I would imagine finger prints and damage to the screen possibly. I think I read the only damage to the screen door was from the shotgun blast. All I'll say is, is this. Breaking and Entering will leave behind some real tell tale signs.

 

[nehalem256]

Let me explain once again, none of this had anything to do with her being shot. The ME said at the time of her death the level of joint in her system was not significant. Even still we know she had interacted with at least one person after the accident and she was not violent or robbing people, lol. This guy is going to need a whole of something to come to light to keep him out of jail.

She doesn't engage in underage drinking she doesn't crash her car. Never gets shot.

She doesn't drive drunk she doesn't crash her car. Never gets shot.

She doesn't flee the scene of the accident, she never ends up at the guys house. Never gets shot.

 

[classy]

She doesn't engage in underage drinking she doesn't crash her car. Never gets shot.

She doesn't drive drunk she doesn't crash her car. Never gets shot.

She doesn't flee the scene of the accident, she never ends up at the guys house. Never gets shot.

People have been getting drunk and doing drugs, partying hard for centuries. That is no reason to say they deserve to die. There is nothing that has come to light to support she attempted to break in. Just because she knocked on his door at 3 am and he became alarmed or startled he was still safe within the confines of locked doors. He should have called the police, but instead he confronted the person with a gun, completely irrational. He ends up shooting the person whether by accident or on purpose.

 

[classy]

We'll have to wait for more info, but he better have some big time info come to light that supports him.

 

[nehalem256]

People have been getting drunk and doing drugs, partying hard for centuries. That is no reason to say they deserve to die. There is nothing that has come to light to support she attempted to break in. Just because she knocked on his door at 3 am and he became alarmed or startled he was still safe within the confines of locked doors.

If you tempt fate it eventually catches up to you.

The girl broke law after law that night and it eventually led to her death.

If she had died crashing into the parked car how many people would be like "she got what she deserved". So how come when she commits and addtional crime is it now a tragedy when she dies?

He should have called the police, but instead he confronted the person with a gun, completely irrational. He ends up shooting the person whether by accident or on purpose.

She shouldn't have broken 3 laws that night. Going to door with your gun is not a crime.

And who knows what the police response time is like in Dearborn. If it was actually in Detroit proper your idea of calling the police would be laughable.

 

[spidey07]

We'll have to wait for more info, but he better have some big time info come to light that supports him.

In this country you don't need to prove not guilty.

It is to protect against the lynch mobs.

 

[spidey07]

I would imagine finger prints and damage to the screen possibly. I think I read the only damage to the screen door was from the shotgun blast. All I'll say is, is this. Breaking and Entering will leave behind some real tell tale signs.

Baking and entering is not required to defend your castle.

 

[tgferg67]

If you tempt fate it eventually catches up to you.

The girl broke law after law that night and it eventually led to her death.

If she had died crashing into the parked car how many people would be like "she got what she deserved". So how come when she commits and addtional crime is it now a tragedy when she dies?



She shouldn't have broken 3 laws that night. Going to door with your gun is not a crime.

And who knows what the police response time is like in Dearborn. If it was actually in Detroit proper your idea of calling the police would be laughable.

Dearborn Heights is not Detroit.
Two minutes after the initial dispatch, an officer reported: “Rescue 10 is on scene.”
www.detroitnews.com/article/20131112/METRO01/311120086#ixzz2kx4CtVrR

 

[umbrella39]

Ok, I'm curious, what happened in your case?

Posted earlier. Cliffs are Mid 90's Asbury Park in Detroit (used to be part of Dearborn but now part of Detroit). Living with wife and young child. 3 to 4 am a couple of pissed off, young, loud banging on my door scaring the shit out of me black guys. Looking for different house, different block, different guy... whatever. Wasn't me they wanted and I made that as clear as I could. I was behind the door with my shotgun and they knew it and my wife was on the phone with 911. Never in a million years would I have opened my door to confront them, but was ready and very willing to defend mine and my families life. The entire thing lasted maybe 60-90 seconds but it felt like an hour. By the time Detroit's finest showed up it was about 10 minutes gone by. We moved within 2-3 months and never looked back. I felt more than threatened and would have, without a second thought killed them or died trying had they tried to get in or I had thought they were going to get in. But from what I am reading here the homeowner made the choice to open the door which in my mind and going from my own personal experience doesn't lend a lot of credibility to the notion he was in fear for his life. Our storm door was not locked so already they had made it further in my house than this girl did the shooter's. From what I have read or heard in our local news so far it sure sounds like this guy fucked up and made a terrible mistake. As stated, I don't think race or malice had anything to do with her death. Until I hear otherwise...

 

[SandEagle]

Dearborn Heights is not Detroit.
Two minutes after the initial dispatch, an officer reported: “Rescue 10 is on scene.”
www.detroitnews.com/article/20131112/METRO01/311120086#ixzz2kx4CtVrR

i'm very familiar with Dearborn Heights. its a decent area, but drive 7-10 minutes and you're in crappy areas of Detroit.

 

[spidey07]

I answer the knock on my door armed. I always do. Uninvited, you knock on my door, at 3 in the morning? Fuck, you are starting a home invasion. I answer well armed. Once you attempt to enter as this scumbag did, you get dead.

This is the lesson to be learned. Do NOT attempt to enter another man's home at 3 in the morning!

 

[umbrella39]

And who knows what the police response time is like in Dearborn.

Me. But that would not be germane to this case as this happened in Dearborn Heights. A completely different city with a completely different set of problems and a completely different police force. Having lived for multiple years in both cities I can tell you in my experience the response time from call to squad car has always been 10 or less minutes. When growing along Dearborn Hills Golf Course (Robert Herndon) in one of the very nice parts of Dearborn the response time was probably closer to 5 minutes or sooner as there was always at least one car patrolling the hills. Orville Hubbard ran a tight ship but I digress I am getting off topic...

If it was actually in Detroit proper your idea of calling the police would be laughable.

See above. I am not sure why some of the most active posters in this thread cannot discern the difference between Detroit and Dearborn Heights after it has been pointed out several times here already. These are not the same cities and are no where near close to each other in terms of the danger element.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I answer the knock on my door armed. I always do. Uninvited, you knock on my door, at 3 in the morning? Fuck, you are starting a home invasion. I answer well armed. Once you attempt to enter as this scumbag did, you get dead.

This is the lesson to be learned. Do NOT attempt to enter another man's home at 3 in the morning!

LMAO!!!! Truth be known you would most likely injure or kill yourself/family and the person would walk in and take what they want includng your gun/s.

 

[umbrella39]

i'm very familiar with Dearborn Heights. its a decent area, but drive 7-10 minutes and you're in crappy areas of Detroit.

This. What people who have never been here can't appreciate is that between where this incident occurred and Detroit is a large population of Arabs and white folks who have not yet vacated the area. Like you said you have to go down a few miles and past all the Arab areas on Warren before you get to the bad parts of Detroit.

 

[umbrella39]

LMAO!!!! Truth be known you would most likely injure or kill yourself/family and the person would walk in and take what they want includng your gun/s.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NAVDXjqOxSw/Tailyr5dovI/AAAAAAAALmU/n5phDHFgf88/s1600/ralphie.jpg

 

[shira]

A victim does not need to prove intent.

The law is very explicit on this. It includes two parts. Part A says that the person entering the home must "be in the process of" home invasion or breaking and entering. Part B says that the homeowner must reasonably believe that part A is true.

If only Part B were relevant, then the law wouldn't include Part A. So you're wrong. There must be an ACTUAL home invasion or breaking and entering in progress.

 

[shira]

So a homeowner must determine the intent of the person trying to enter the house before they can exercise their rights provided by the respective state's Castle Doctrine?

I believe proving the intent would be required by the prosecution if the person was being tried on charges of breaking and entering, not in a Castle Doctrine case.

Please not the last line in the law, no where does it state the homeowner must know the person intent.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

You're saying that (b) by itself justifies deadly force. But why are you ignoring (a)? The text you've quoted CLEARLY states that deadly force is justified "if BOTH of the following apply." And "both of the following" includes (a).

If (b) alone justifies deadly force, then why does the law say "BOTH?"