12 people dead, 25 wounded in England shooting spree

[WelshBloke]

You dont know how to read a graph

# of licensed firearms drops from about 425 to 320, course your graph could be fucked up but thats your fault.

Hint: you may have left a K out somewhere

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm not trying to push an agenda. I want UK to learn from this and empower it's citizens to protect themselves and others. Arm them and end the stupidity of their gun laws.

The blood of these people rests on your government. They are just as responsible for their death.

Awesome :awe:. States 'isnt going to push agenda', goes on to push agenda. :thumbsup:

 

[Atheus]

I don't think either tighter or looser gun laws would have prevented this. The law currently is pretty much as tight as the population will accept anyway - you can ban handguns on the street but you can't stop people having basic rifles and shotguns for legitimate purposes, and those are exactly the weapons used here.

Equally American-style CCW would have had little effect. This wasn't in a densely populated area where a likely hero could spring out of a crowd and save the day, it was in the middle of nowhere, and the people targetted were often alone or in the presence of only a handful of others. In fact, since this was a rural area, many of the people targetted would have owned firearms. One was a farmer just standing in a field - he probably had a shotgun in his car for the rabbits. But none of them expected any violence from this guy - he just drove up calmly, fired a shot, and headed off to the next location.

 

[piasabird]

London spends all of its money buying cameras and spying on the public.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Citizen A sees the criminal firing at his friend. He pulls out his gun to mow down the guy calling him an asshole and die mf'er!

Citizen B with a bad angle only sees Citizen A firing at something screaming angrily, he has to be a good citizen so he pulls out his gun and starts mowing down Citizen B.

Etc. etc.

A bunch of street vigilantes opening fire in a city would leave a horrendous trail of bloodshed that could easily rival what happened in this incident.

And yet, with all the millions of people carrying guns every day, this doesn't happen. How strange.

 

[Nebor]

And yet, with all the millions of people carrying guns every day, this doesn't happen. How strange.

Yeah, I would actually challenge someone to find ONE time that this actually happened.

You don't just pull out your pistol and start blasting. You evaluate the situation and make an assessment. If I see 3 dudes with AK-47s, I'm not going to pull my H&K USP Compact and try to engage them directly. If I see someone shooting another person, and I know nothing else, I'm going to have to observe the situation to see if he starts to shoot other people, or if that was the end of it.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

Yep no mass shootings in the US

Point out a single mass shooting in the United States where carry of guns was allowed.

Exactly.

And they only started after our leaders began to make gun-free zones.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Point out a single mass shooting in the United States where carry of guns was allowed.

Exactly.

And they only started after our leaders began to make gun-free zones.

To be fair to facts, that's not true. There have been mass shootings since there have been guns. Just not as frequently, and not with as much press coverage.

 

[exdeath]

There's a bigger issue than gun control: is there anyway society can spot these violent anti-social people before they do harm?

Sure, it's called thought police, banning everything, throwing people in jail for 10 life terms for possessing a plastic spork, implanted RFID tags, national curfews, limit on children, retina scanners and cameras every 10 feet, etc. Haven't you seen the movie Minority Report? We just round people up and put them in jail on the vaguest suspension without any crime committed whatsoever, and all society is guilty until proven innocent. Who needs rights and due process? Who needs freedom when .1% of the population will abuse it to have initiative to harm others?

You going to throw me in jail for being an anti social, emotionless, loner sociopath and having many many guns including one of every famously known assault rifle? I fit the stereotype right? Wrong. I'm also a libertarian who believes strongly in individual liberty and the concept of "live and let live" and do not interfere with others who's actions are not depriving others of their equal rights, so that rules out mass shooting sprees and bombings, robberies, muggings, or pretty much any unsolicited and unprovoked aggression towards others.

Of course defending my life, liberty, and property from *individuals in the act* of depriving me of those things is provoked aggression and another story altogether, and in my state, protected by law (castle doctrine, justified use of force, etc).

Now all seriousness aside, if I ever did snap, I have resolved that I will not use guns, I would make sure it was horrific as possible without involving a single firearm just to prove a point and not give the media another anti-gun story to glamorize and promote their leftist cause with.

 

[irishScott]

I'm saying it had nothing to do with it.

Even if you're right, then what's the point of banning handguns? Why not allow your citizens more freedom as opposed to less? Then again Europe in general has always been far more authoritarian than us. Hell technically the Queen could dissolve parliament and assume control if she wanted to right?

Not to hijack, but just out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if the Queen went batshit crazy and did that? The UK have it's own little bloodless coup where you finally do away with all that ceremonial faux monarchy BS?

 

[WelshBloke]

Hell technically the Queen could dissolve parliament and assume control if she wanted to right?

Not to hijack, but just out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if the Queen went batshit crazy and did that? The UK have it's own little bloodless coup where you finally do away with all that ceremonial faux monarchy BS?

Exactly the same thing that would happen as if I tried to dissolve parliament.

Is it in Wall street that you get celebrities in to ring the trading bell? If the picked celebrity refused to ring the bell would trading not start?

 

[irishScott]

Exactly the same thing that would happen as if I tried to dissolve parliament.

Is it in Wall street that you get celebrities in to ring the trading bell? If the picked celebrity refused to ring the bell would trading not start?

I figured. Just curious as celebrities ringing the bell is not law, as opposed to the Queen's right to assume power which is, technically.

 

[Siddhartha]

Does anyone know what is the violent death rate per capita in the US vs the UK and the rest of the first world countries?

 

[shortylickens]

The OP implied that strict gun laws in the UK left its citizens vulnerable to attack by those that do have them, and Marlin showed that this idea is totally bankrupt. Pretty simple in my book.

It must be pretty simple, if you could draw the wrong conclusion.


I think the biggest problem in this thread is the same problem in ALL related threads: Lack of logic, poor understanding of human nature, and no control over emotions, not to mention reliance on manipulating other peoples emotions to get your points.

 

[CanOWorms]

I don't even understand how you people can debate crime statistics between the UK and USA. Do you not read the news? European countries make up statistics all the time. Look at the situation in Greece. They will make shit up to create some fiction of cultural or moral supremacy.

God bless the Queen. It's just the deaths of a few legally classified peasants to her.

 

[ShawnD1]

Britain is a hilariously bad country. Everything is totally broken.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

Alright so the US is full of crazy people, has a culture of fear mongering, and has lots of guns, but the crime rate in the US is still lower.

Britain also has massive debt problems.
USA debt to gdp = roughly 90%
Britain debt to gdp = 400% (link)

You know that one crazy guy who keeps borrowing money, never pays it back, then goes around stabbing people? That's Britain.

 

[spidey07]

Unarmed UK police had to stop the chase because they were unarmed. That means more people died as a result of their stupid gun laws. What good are police if they aren't armed anyway? Are they going to use stern language?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ichx9ZAwKWd7eDfsFb24oiir4jsgD9G6M7N00

LONDON — British police say they were forced to break off their pursuit of the gunman who killed a dozen people across a rural area in northern England last week because he turned the weapon on unarmed officers.

Police said Monday that they weren't in a position to halt Derrick Bird's deadly rampage. One officer commandeered a cab to follow Bird but abandoned the chase to help two of his victims. A police van then took up the chase, but Bird shook them off by pointing his gun at them, forcing the officers to duck for cover.

Twelve people were killed and another 11 people were seriously wounded during Bird's rampage Wednesday across the northern county of Cumbria. Police have said Bird was being investigated by tax officials and may also have feuded with his family and colleagues.

 

[ShawnD1]

Unarmed UK police had to stop the chase because they were unarmed. That means more people died as a result of their stupid gun laws. What good are police if they aren't armed anyway? Are they going to use stern language?

As said by my cousin regarding security guards:
"They assume everyone is drunk. Instead of carrying a gun, they carry flashlights and yell 'stop or I'll make you dizzy' in a stern voice"

Seems pretty stupid to have cops that don't have guns. I can understand security guards carrying pepper spray instead of guns because they usually deal with people who are just trying to steal things or whatever. Cops deal with real crime. Drug dealers. Serial killers. Rapists. These are people who might have guns.