12 people dead, 25 wounded in England shooting spree

[spidey07]

These would be the killers that usually go on to kill themselves, the ones you think are scared of being shot.

They are nuts, I dont think they are worried about self preservation.

Then why do the mass shootings happen overwhelmingly at gun free zones?

Face it, if there was a carrying gun owner in england the harm from this guy could have been severely limited.

 

[nick1985]

These would be the killers that usually go on to kill themselves, the ones you think are scared of being shot.

They are nuts, I dont think they are worried about self preservation.

Dont you think in some of those situations if the people had been armed the shooter would not have been able to kill over 30 people before he took his own life?

IE Virginia Tech

 

[WelshBloke]

Face it, if there was a carrying gun owner in england the harm from this guy could have been severely limited.

There was, he killed 12 people.

 

[nick1985]

There was, he killed 12 people.

/sigh

 

[spidey07]

There was, he killed 12 people.

And if you had carrying good people there would not have been nearly the damage. It happens all the time where gun owners protect themselves and others. It happens multiple times every single day.

 

[WelshBloke]

/sigh

You're the one who wanted facts, fact is a gunman killed 12 people.

 

[nick1985]

Myth: CCWs will lead to mass public shootings

Fact: Multiple victim public shootings drop in states that pass shall-issue CCW legislation.308

Fact: 77% of all violent crime occurs in public places.310 This makes concealed carry
necessary for almost all self-defense needs. But due to onerous laws forbidding
concealed carry, only 26.8% of defensive gun uses occurred away from home.311

 

[nick1985]

You're the one who wanted facts, fact is a gunman killed 12 people.

Yeah...because you have an unarmed populace with no ability to defend their own lives.

 

[WelshBloke]

And if you had carrying good people there would not have been nearly the damage.

Maybe, maybe not. You want to stick to the facts and not try to push an agenda in the face of a tragedy?

 

[nick1985]

Fact: In 2000, 20% of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just six percent of the population – New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. – most of which have/had a virtual prohibition on private handguns.322

Fact: The U.S. government “found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes” 315 and also concluded in one study that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law--federal, state or local--that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."316

 

[WelshBloke]

Fact: In 2000, 20% of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just six percent of the population – New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. – most of which have/had a virtual prohibition on private handguns.322

Fact: This happened in the UK

If you want the levels of gun crime in the UK compared to the US I can pull them up for you.

 

[nick1985]

Maybe, maybe not. You want to stick to the facts and not try to push an agenda in the face of a tragedy?

Why did your nation's violent crime rate increase after it enacted its tough gun laws?

 

[WelshBloke]

Why did your nation's violent crime rate increase after it enacted its tough gun laws?

Your homicide rate is higher with or without guns crime included.

 

[nick1985]

 

[WelshBloke]

Are you saying that giving out 200 less firearm certs led to an increase in violent crime? Or are you linking 2 unrelated things?

 

[nick1985]

Are you saying that giving out 200 less firearm certs led to an increase in violent crime? Or are you linking 2 unrelated things?

I'm saying your handgun ban did nothing but increase your violent crime rate

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm saying your handgun ban did nothing but increase your violent crime rate

I'm saying it had nothing to do with it.

 

[nick1985]

Your homicide rate is higher with or without guns crime included.

And your overall crime rate is worse:

Compared to the United States of America, the United Kingdom has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the USA it is approximately 80.[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[nick1985]

I'm saying it had nothing to do with it.

I'm saying your head is in the sand

 

[spidey07]

Maybe, maybe not. You want to stick to the facts and not try to push an agenda in the face of a tragedy?

I'm not trying to push an agenda. I want UK to learn from this and empower it's citizens to protect themselves and others. Arm them and end the stupidity of their gun laws.

The blood of these people rests on your government. They are just as responsible for their death.

 

[WelshBloke]

And your overall crime rate is worse:

Compared to the United States of America, the United Kingdom has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the USA it is approximately 80.[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

That doesnt really mean a lot though as we dont know the breakdown of what those crimes are.

All the US ones could be littering and all the UK ones could be rape.

Fact is your homicide rate is way higher.

 

[nick1985]

That doesnt really mean a lot though as we dont know the breakdown of what those crimes are.

All the US ones could be littering and all the UK ones could be rape.

Fact is your homicide rate is way higher.

Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.51 To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.52

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm saying your head is in the sand

Do you really believe that the lowering of firearms certs by the amount shown in your graph led to a national rise in violent crime?

Those gun owners must have been really busy.

 

[WelshBloke]

Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is flawed.

I was quoting you.

Also your copy pasting this from a list arnt you

 

[nick1985]

Do you really believe that the lowering of firearms certs by the amount shown in your graph led to a national rise in violent crime?

Those gun owners must have been really busy.

You dont know how to read a graph