Originally posted by: Amused
Both should experience the same? Does your ass hurt after pulling this shit out of it?
Geeeez, chill out.
Skinny people stop feeling hungry before fat people. Period. The longer the hunger switch stays on, the more obese a person WILL become in our given environment of easily available food and little activity.
It is quite obvious you have never starved yourself long term, nor have any idea what you're talking about. You push yourself away from the table when you're no longer hungry and have all your life. Well, fat people do the same. Only they remain hungry long after your hunger is comfortably satiated.
Hence my reason for the question:
"So are you saying that overweight people experience a perpetual feeling of extreme starvation, hence they eat constantly? "
Unfortunately, we lack any good means at this point in time to measure how a person "feels" about something.
You think that occationally skipping a dersert makes you know that you have self control???
Try this: Have EVERY meal pulled away from you while you're still famished. See how much "self control" you have. But wait, you've never had that happen long term, have you?
Do this to ANY skinny person and they will start doing all the sneaky "disgusting" things fat people do. They will start hiding food, sneaking food, hoarding food and stealing food. Your body WILL make you eat when it's hungry.
Maybe you should research this a bit more than what you've heard from diet gurus? Maybe start with the Leptin studies, perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin
Different people have different levels of hunger, period. People are NOT all the same. And obesity has nothing to do with self control over food/eating anymore than breathing.
Now, if you have a skinny person and meals are pulled away constantly to the point of genuine, medically observable starvation, that will generate a certain feeling in a person.
Is the assumption then that this same feeling is what is felt in an overweight person who is nowhere near the point of starvation?
Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
Originally posted by: Jeff7
So are you saying that overweight people experience a perpetual feeling of extreme starvation, hence they eat constantly?
Yes, that is exactly what he is saying, and coming from experience it is exactly correct.
Unfortunately, there's still no way to directly convey "feeling" from one person to another - it would be curious to have some way to quantify emotional states and all that. Measure the feeling experienced by someone who's a few days away from death by starvation, and compare it to the feeling of someone who feels a constant compulsion to eat, as well as to the typical feelings of hunger experienced by a skinny person.
Some day, perhaps - but not yet.
Besides, neither overweight nor skinny people starve themselves every day; both should experience the same sensation of hunger, and both should experience the same sensations of fullness.
So there is no subjectiveness in this? If both me and you eat one apple we should experience the exact same about of 'fullness' from it?
Yes, there is subjectiveness in this.
Look at what DrPizza said - he could eat a full pack of hot dogs with buns, yet he was still considered underweight. I would eat just three hot dogs with buns, and my stomach would feel full. I can't say I'd feel "satiated" per se, but it was more a matter of capacity, my stomach felt as though it was simply at its full volume.
Feeling hungry just an hour after eating? Then remind yourself that your ancient animal brain doesn't know what the hell it's talking about, that food is right there in the fridge, and that you don't need to worry about spending hours and considerable energy in hunting down some animal to eat.
Great, why don't you try this? Switch what you eat to extremely high calorie foods (like trail rations) so you don't actually starve, but only get 6oz of food a day and see how long you last on willpower. My bet is by the end of the second day you will be eating 10X the calories you intended.
A curious exercise...what are trail rations typically made of? Are they reasonably nutritious, and reasonably priced? And do they taste like old bat guano, or like genuine food?
If I can easily stomach them without the flavor making me gag, and aren't too pricey, I'd be up for a little experiment. I'm on a typical "poor college student" budget right now.
I won't deny thermodynamics is at work, but saying it is simple is just silly. No one is trying to say that mass magically appears, it comes form stored energy that was put into the system. The hard part is figuring out how much energy the system needs and at what point it will start to store that energy instead of use it. That mark will be different from person to person and there is no simple way to figure it out. So saying weight loss is just a matter of energy in vs energy out is just as silly as saying that rocketry is just about stored chemical energy vs released chemical energy with out ever mentioning how that energy is used.
I suppose I tend to throw "simple" around too often. General relativity and time dilation: Simple. Go fast and time slows down. I think I understand it, and it's fairly simple. The equations, not so much, but the concept is fairly simple.
Energy and matter, and going from one to the other: The concept is simple. The equation is also fairly simplistic, e=mc²
Heck, Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" was a decent, comprehensible book; I found Einstein's "Relativity: The Special and General Theory" to be a bit more involved, but still quite understandable.
"Simple" is also, well, subjective.
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