The only ones of those I eat are occassionally corn and potatoes. Maybe I'll try fiber bars/pills.
The only ones of those I eat are occassionally corn and potatoes. Maybe I'll try fiber bars/pills.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
One of my favorite cereals of all time is Cracklin' Oat Bran. Unfortunately, it's about as expensive as platinum, and a few bowls will clean you out better than a glass of undiluted nitric acid.
Another classic for lots of fiber: raisin bran.
Why? If you consume more energy than you put out, you're going to gain weight. I don't care if you burn those calories neffing or pushing boulders up a hill.
If energy input is greater than energy output, the excess is stored as extra mass, either fat or muscle.
BlackTigers
Diamond Member
- Jan 15, 2006
- 4,491
- 2
- 71
1. They don't diet TRUE
2. They keep track of their weight FALSE
3. They exercise regularly TRUE
4. They don't solve problems with food TRUE
5. They stop eating when they're full. I don't go until full. I stop when I'm not hungry. There IS a difference
6. They don't surround themselves with temptation TRUE
7. They allow themselves treats TRUE
8. They eat breakfast TRUE
9. They move, stand and fidget more TRUE
10. They don't skip meals Ehhh...FALSE.
2. They keep track of their weight FALSE
3. They exercise regularly TRUE
4. They don't solve problems with food TRUE
5. They stop eating when they're full. I don't go until full. I stop when I'm not hungry. There IS a difference
6. They don't surround themselves with temptation TRUE
7. They allow themselves treats TRUE
8. They eat breakfast TRUE
9. They move, stand and fidget more TRUE
10. They don't skip meals Ehhh...FALSE.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,387
- 19,687
- 146
Fixed.
I have been thin all my life, but one thing I have noticed about people who tend to be overweight is that their hunger does not shut off when they eat. The longer their hunger stays "on" the longer they eat.
One thing skinny people seldom do is go hungry. Well, for most obese people, they are constantly hungry. Their body does not shut off the hunger switch.
How many here can honestly say they could live their lives starving everyday?
Hell, how many here have actually gone hungry for any real amount of time???
Flick that switch on in even the smuggest skinny fscker and they will blow up into just as big a fatass as everyone they ever looked down on.
When it comes to hunger, actual starving hunger, there is no such thing as self control any more than there is self control when it comes to breathing.
People are NOT the same. It is so fscking stupid when naturally skinny people judge people who are obese when they have no idea what causes it.
Oh, and BTW, fat people today were the ones MORE likely to survive in the past because their ability to gain and store body fat was most useful in the times of feast/famine cycles. Skinny people in today's environment are the genetic losers of yesterday which is why they are quickly becoming the minority as activity levels continue to drop.
Folks, this is why diets have a near 100% failure rate long term.
Once we can learn to turn off the hunger switch in fat people the way it NATURALLY turns off in skinny folks, we will have found a cure.
We are victims of our own success. We have an endless supply of easily available food and have limited our need to perform physical activities.
Hunger is what drove the most succeessful genetics in the past, now it is killing them.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Those have nothing on some of the new fiber enhanced cereals coming out. Some of the stuff from Kashi and Fiber One are chocked with 9 grams of colon shredding doom per serving. That's easily more than double what most other non specialized cereals are.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Or else it's possible that most people have this "hunger switch" thing, but that some people simply lack discipline and self-control.
Yes, we evolved in an environment of scarcity. Feeling some level of hunger all the time would have encouraged our ancestors to eat whatever small or large quantity of food they'd come across, because the time until the next meal was often uncertain.
I've felt an inkling of hunger for about the past 2 hours, but I haven't eaten anything.
Part of it's discipline, but part of it's also just good old laziness. Cooking is boring as all hell, and I hate washing dishes for the same reason.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
The simple math also apparently assumes that everyone extracts all the possible calories from their food. When I was younger, a typical snack was an entire large bag of potato chips (13oz?) and a 2-liter of soda, or an entire package of hotdogs & hotdog buns (with ketchup), or I'd boil and eat an entire dozen eggs. At college, we competed to see who could eat the most and get a "food buzz" - that feeling you get after you think you've eaten all you can eat, and you keep eating & endorphins kick in (or something). We're talking about 6000 calorie + meals. And, many people said I was underweight. Of course, I exercised a lot; a lot more than I do now, but I still averaged 1000's of calories higher than what someone my age was supposed to be eating, even for someone who was physically active. Simply, I was blessed with good genes.
Now, I'm still more active than many people my age. But I can only eat a fraction of what I used to consume. I gain weight too easily now. Before, I couldn't gain weight, trying. As far as cholesterol though, I can still eat a diet high in supposedly bad foods, and have very low cholesterol levels. Again, it's genetic.
Now, I'm still more active than many people my age. But I can only eat a fraction of what I used to consume. I gain weight too easily now. Before, I couldn't gain weight, trying. As far as cholesterol though, I can still eat a diet high in supposedly bad foods, and have very low cholesterol levels. Again, it's genetic.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Energy in vs energy out still holds.
Energy in includes the calories extracted.
Energy out includes undigested/unabsorbed energy which is excreted and flushed down the toilet.
Good lord, man! My daily calorie intake is probably around 1500 calories.
3 hot dogs w/buns could easily be a full meal for me, before I start feeling seriously overstuffed to the point of feeling like throwing up.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,058
- 4,708
- 126
I do love Cracklin' Oat Bran. I have it many times for lunch. While there are specialized cereals like vi_edit mentions, I just can't seem to enjoy them as much. I'd rather have a tasty bowl with good levels of fiber than eat a bowl of cardboard with double the fiber. But, if you do like them, they are worth it.
Please don't confuse the conservation of energy with the conservation of mass. If you want to lose mass, you must eat less mass than the mass that you expel. If you want to gain mass, you must eat more mass than the mass that you expel. Calories are the wrong thing to look at in your math.
Yes, calories will be conserved, and yes, calories and mass are linked. But focussing on calories tends to lead people to traps.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,387
- 19,687
- 146
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Or else it's possible that most people have this "hunger switch" thing, but that some people simply lack discipline and self-control.
Yes, we evolved in an environment of scarcity. Feeling some level of hunger all the time would have encouraged our ancestors to eat whatever small or large quantity of food they'd come across, because the time until the next meal was often uncertain.
I've felt an inkling of hunger for about the past 2 hours, but I haven't eaten anything.
Part of it's discipline, but part of it's also just good old laziness. Cooking is boring as all hell, and I hate washing dishes for the same reason.
Okay. I want you to go hungry every day. I don't mean skip a few calories. I mean go seriously hungry. Cut your calorie intake in half. See how long you last. And I don;t mean a few months, I mean the rest of your life.
Long term self control when it comes to hunger is bullshit. Just as it is with breathing, which is why all drowning victims have water in their lungs. When it comes to breathing, you cannot hold your breath until you die any more than you can starve yourself long term. Your body WILL get what it wants eventually.
Again, this is why nearly 100% of dieters/weight-loss programs fail. The body will NOT allow itself to be starved long term. It WILL get what it wants.
Skinny people have their hunger shut off long before the hunger in obese people shuts off. Period. Then skinny people shout bullshit like "self control" at obese people when they have NO idea what it's like to go hungry on a long term basis.
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,359
- 4,640
- 136
One again you are assuming that the human body fully uses all the energy it takes in and none passes out unused.
Not to mention that a lot of people have a body type that simply does not store much energy as fat no matter how much excess energy they have. Instead they become hyperactive and can't sit still, because they have way to much energy in their system.
Other people take in all those calories in and do not get a huge boost of energy because their body immediately squirrels it away in fat cells.
No matter how much you want to, you can not make it as simply as more calories = more weight.
glenn beck
Platinum Member
- Oct 6, 2004
- 2,380
- 0
- 0
The secret of being skinny is metabolism/genetics and age plain and simple, I used to be 155 soaken wet and never worked out
a day in my life and could eat any type of food all day long. Now I workout all the time and weigh 210 and since I am older have to watch what
I eat
a day in my life and could eat any type of food all day long. Now I workout all the time and weigh 210 and since I am older have to watch what
I eat
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Bah, energy...mass...they're both the same thing, really.
You ingest mass, but some of it is converted into energy when chemical bonds are broken, though this change in mass is likely to be negligible; that's getting too much into picky relativity stuff.
Ok, so food is measured in calories and grams - energy and mass.
How's this then:
If Energy in + mass in > Energy out + mass out
THEN Weight gain will result.
So are you saying that overweight people experience a perpetual feeling of extreme starvation, hence they eat constantly?
Besides, neither overweight nor skinny people starve themselves every day; both should experience the same sensation of hunger, and both should experience the same sensations of fullness. Both also have another ability: Read the bathroom scale. If it says you're gaining 10lbs a week, then you need to make a conscious effort to more closely watch what you eat. Feeling hungry just an hour after eating? Then remind yourself that your ancient animal brain doesn't know what the hell it's talking about, that food is right there in the fridge, and that you don't need to worry about spending hours and considerable energy in hunting down some animal to eat.
Well obviously, unmetabolized food is not included in the energy-in part of the equation; why would it be?
Being hyperactive and fidgeting counts toward the energy-out part of the equation. Unmetabolized food also represents energy, and since it will ultimately be contained in a person's excrement, it also counts toward the energy-out part of the equation.
I'm looking at this energy/mass in vs energy/mass out through the lens of my thermodynamics courses. Those equations account for all energy passing a system's boundary, which can include potential energy from changes in height, velocity differences, temperature, and phase, among other things.
"An engineer will call a horse a sphere if it makes the math easier."
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,359
- 4,640
- 136
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Or else it's possible that most people have this "hunger switch" thing, but that some people simply lack discipline and self-control.
Yes, we evolved in an environment of scarcity. Feeling some level of hunger all the time would have encouraged our ancestors to eat whatever small or large quantity of food they'd come across, because the time until the next meal was often uncertain.
I've felt an inkling of hunger for about the past 2 hours, but I haven't eaten anything.
Part of it's discipline, but part of it's also just good old laziness. Cooking is boring as all hell, and I hate washing dishes for the same reason.
Okay. I want you to go hungry every day. I don't mean skip a few calories. I mean go seriously hungry. Cut your calorie intake in half. See how long you last. And I don;t mean a few months, I mean the rest of your life.
Long term self control when it comes to hunger is bullshit. Just as it is with breathing, which is why all drowning victims have water in their lungs. When it comes to breathing, you cannot hold your breath until you die any more than you can starve yourself long term. Your body WILL get what it wants eventually.
Again, this is why nearly 100% of dieters/weight-loss programs fail. The body will NOT allow itself to be starved long term. It WILL get what it wants.
Skinny people have their hunger shut off long before the hunger in obese people shuts off. Period. Then skinny people shout bullshit like "self control" at obese people when they have NO idea what it's like to go hungry on a long term basis.
And this is why I tell people that the only way to do long term weight control is by adding muscle mass. Don't do much aerobic exorcise, do weight training. Build big muscles, and they will consume a lot of those extra calories. In the long run it is impossible to maintain a diet, but maintaining a workout routine is pretty easy, it just decide to work out every day for a few months and it will quickly becomes easy and enjoyable.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Incidentally, this is why many animals evolved the tendency of muscles to atrophy away when not in use. Just keeping muscle tissue alive takes a considerable amount of energy. If those muscles weren't helping an animal to survive, then they probably weren't being used enough, thus they're just a waste of scarce energy.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,314
- 12,887
- 136
Originally posted by: moshquerade
1. They don't diet correct
2. They keep track of their weight nope :laugh:
3. They exercise regularly ehhh not so much anymore
4. They don't solve problems with food correct
5. They stop eating when they're full correct
6. They don't surround themselves with temptation correct
7. They allow themselves treats correct
8. They eat breakfast hell yeah
9. They move, stand and fidget more guilty as charged
10. They don't skip meals ehhhhh
http://health.msn.com/nutritio...id=100218116>1=31036
my secret? kickass genetics
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,058
- 4,708
- 126
They are related not equal, but I won't go into more detail on it. I'll just point out some common calorie "math".Originally posted by: Jeff7
Bah, energy...mass...they're both the same thing, really.
Suppose you ate 1 lb of pure fat and nothing else, how much weight could you possibly gain? The true answer: if you ate 1 lb of ANYTHING, at most you could gain 1 lb. If you didn't digest it all (we rarely do digest all of what we eat), then you'd gain less than 1 lb.
Now, lets see what the internet has to say about this:
[*]Google "pound to gram", result is 453.6 g.
[*]Google "calories in a gram of fat", first result. A gram of fat has 9 calories. Thus, 453.6 * 9 = 4082.4 Calories eaten.
[*]Google "calories in a pound" First result says 3500 Calories gives you 1 lb of weight gain. Thus, since you ate 4082.4 Calories you gained 1.17 lbs.
WOW! By putting in 1 lb, we suddenly have 1.17 lbs of weight! Isn't this fun, we can create mass out of thin air! I'm going to go win the nobel prize for this groundbreaking work, no one else has ever been able to do that before and it breaks the fundamental laws of science!
Or, we can realize the calorie math is all wrong. The links I gave are not abnormalities, virtually all links will give the same answers. Doctors, nutritionists, nurses, teachers, etc will all say the same thing, yet even this elementry school level math shows that what they say doesn't add up.
For me as a skinny person (5' 9" 145):
1) True
2) False
3) True
4) True
5) True (most of the time)
6) True
7) False
8) True
9) True
10) True
I'm a skinny fuck (5'9" 145lb with <10% Body fat) and if anything it's the fat ppl looking down on me not the other way around. In america unless you are 220+ lb, you're not considered to be a "man"
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
Speaking strictly for myself (160 pounds, 6'0"):
1. They don't diet - True.
2. They keep track of their weight - Sort of, but not in any organized sort of way.
3. They exercise regularly - False.
4. They don't solve problems with food - True.
5. They stop eating when they're full - True.
6. They don't surround themselves with temptation - False, I always keep candy or snack foods around.
7. They allow themselves treats - True.
8. They eat breakfast - False in a magnificent way. I eat breakfast maybe once a month.
9. They move, stand and fidget more - Very true.
10. They don't skip meals - False in an even more magnificent way than the breakfast myth. Even discounting the fact that I skip breakfast almost every day, I usually skip lunch or dinner every couple of days as well.
ZV
1. They don't diet - True.
2. They keep track of their weight - Sort of, but not in any organized sort of way.
3. They exercise regularly - False.
4. They don't solve problems with food - True.
5. They stop eating when they're full - True.
6. They don't surround themselves with temptation - False, I always keep candy or snack foods around.
7. They allow themselves treats - True.
8. They eat breakfast - False in a magnificent way. I eat breakfast maybe once a month.
9. They move, stand and fidget more - Very true.
10. They don't skip meals - False in an even more magnificent way than the breakfast myth. Even discounting the fact that I skip breakfast almost every day, I usually skip lunch or dinner every couple of days as well.
ZV
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Hah, neat stuff.
I'd imagine those values are just typical or estimates - or else, well, you're well on the road to your Nobel Prize.
Though I suppose technically you are also inhaling air, of which oxygen is entering your system, which could make up that extra mass.
But I doubt it.When I give my "energy-in, energy-out" examples, I'm not even looking at counting the # of calories in something as given on a label. I'm thinking of the actual amount of usable energy which is extracted from food during digestion. We do of course have no way of measuring this value, at least at any reasonable cost. But the quantity does exist. Likewise, when waste is excreted in feces, there's always going to be some undigested food in there; this is part of the energy-out, as is the amount of energy expended in the form of exercise (kinetic energy), energy used for maintenance of body cells and structures, and heat output. Measuring most of these, especially the energy output in the feces, is also no easy task. Possible, but expensive and cumbersome.
The other unfortunate aspect of a lot of human sciences is that we can't use humans as good lab specimens.
To get a really accurate measure of a person's net energy requirements and digestive efficiency, a person would have to be confined in a very well-insulated container. They'd be fed very specific things - for example, maybe pure carbohydrate, then protein, then fat - and then their excrement would need to be recaptured, measured (mass, velocity, and temperature), and analyzed for chemical composition. The oxygen content of the air would also need to be monitored as it enters and exits the chamber, as well as the flow rate and the temperature.
Ideally, to also account for the energy used to maintain a person's cellular metabolism, since this energy would not be manifested in any other way (heat, kinetic, etc), the person would need to remain in the chamber from zygote to death as a dessicated corpse, so that points for starting mass and ending mass could be obtained.
Most people would probably consider such experiments to be rather cruel and unusual, so we have to cut corners somewhere and make some assumptions to get somewhat usable data.
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,359
- 4,640
- 136
Yes, that is exactly what he is saying, and coming from experience it is exactly correct.
So there is no subjectiveness in this? If both me and you eat one apple we should experience the exact same about of 'fullness' from it?
Great, why don't you try this? Switch what you eat to extremely high calorie foods (like trail rations) so you don't actually starve, but only get 6oz of food a day and see how long you last on willpower. My bet is by the end of the second day you will be eating 10X the calories you intended.
Well obviously, unmetabolized food is not included in the energy-in part of the equation; why would it be?
Being hyperactive and fidgeting counts toward the energy-out part of the equation. Unmetabolized food also represents energy, and since it will ultimately be contained in a person's excrement, it also counts toward the energy-out part of the equation.
I'm looking at this energy/mass in vs energy/mass out through the lens of my thermodynamics courses. Those equations account for all energy passing a system's boundary, which can include potential energy from changes in height, velocity differences, temperature, and phase, among other things.
I won't deny thermodynamics is at work, but saying it is simple is just silly. No one is trying to say that mass magically appears, it comes form stored energy that was put into the system. The hard part is figuring out how much energy the system needs and at what point it will start to store that energy instead of use it. That mark will be different from person to person and there is no simple way to figure it out. So saying weight loss is just a matter of energy in vs energy out is just as silly as saying that rocketry is just about stored chemical energy vs released chemical energy with out ever mentioning how that energy is used.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,387
- 19,687
- 146
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Bah, energy...mass...they're both the same thing, really.
You ingest mass, but some of it is converted into energy when chemical bonds are broken, though this change in mass is likely to be negligible; that's getting too much into picky relativity stuff.
Ok, so food is measured in calories and grams - energy and mass.
How's this then:
If Energy in + mass in > Energy out + mass out
THEN Weight gain will result.
So are you saying that overweight people experience a perpetual feeling of extreme starvation, hence they eat constantly?
Besides, neither overweight nor skinny people starve themselves every day; both should experience the same sensation of hunger, and both should experience the same sensations of fullness. Both also have another ability: Read the bathroom scale. If it says you're gaining 10lbs a week, then you need to make a conscious effort to more closely watch what you eat. Feeling hungry just an hour after eating? Then remind yourself that your ancient animal brain doesn't know what the hell it's talking about, that food is right there in the fridge, and that you don't need to worry about spending hours and considerable energy in hunting down some animal to eat.
Both should experience the same? Does your ass hurt after pulling this shit out of it?
Skinny people stop feeling hungry before fat people. Period. The longer the hunger switch stays on, the more obese a person WILL become in our given environment of easily available food and little activity.
It is quite obvious you have never starved yourself long term, nor have any idea what you're talking about. You push yourself away from the table when you're no longer hungry and have all your life. Well, fat people do the same. Only they remain hungry long after your hunger is comfortably satiated.
You think that occationally skipping a dersert makes you know that you have self control???
Try this: Have EVERY meal pulled away from you while you're still famished. See how much "self control" you have. But wait, you've never had that happen long term, have you?
Do this to ANY skinny person and they will start doing all the sneaky "disgusting" things fat people do. They will start hiding food, sneaking food, hoarding food and stealing food. Your body WILL make you eat when it's hungry.
Maybe you should research this a bit more than what you've heard from diet gurus? Maybe start with the Leptin studies, perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin
Different people have different levels of hunger, period. People are NOT all the same. And obesity has nothing to do with self control over food/eating anymore than breathing.
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