10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

[Jaskalas]

Ok not to diminish what happened in France, but why is it always such a HUGE tragedy when a bunch of whites in the West are killed?

Someone's house burns down on the other side of town. I don't really care.
My house burns down, I care a great deal.

Us Westerners care about the attacks against us. These things are personal. Oh, and also uncommon for us. The attacks are also used as a call to action. For us to change our behavior to prevent or minimize future attacks.

It may come as a surprise to you that humans speak of that which is pertinent to them.

Pakistan was also mauled by terrorists when 140+ kids got shot up recently and there wasn't much outcry. While Pakistan has it's faults politically, that doesn't lessen the fact that there are Muslims out there fighting against extremism and paying a severe price for it. There's also the Kurds (who ARE Muslims) fighting ISIS.

ISIS is another topic, but for Pakistan we did speak a bit on that. I call for Pakistan to get serious on the matter, to actually go to war and kill our common enemy. However... I also know the world "community" would condemn the body count necessary to get that done.

Our weakness is that we're not willing to get our hands dirty. Our fatalistic delusion is that we try to prevent anyone else from doing it either. Groups like the Taliban and ISIS need to be put down by violence, organized and sustained by the locals.

However, for whatever reason, when there's even a small scale attack in the West (and this was a small scale attack), the world should be up in arms because a bunch of whites died and now Islam should be destroyed?

Re: "Islam be destroyed..."

What does our media communicate to the masses? One Islamic terrorist attack after another. As far as ANYONE learns, the terrorist's view of Islam is the correct and only view of Islam. We do not learn any other view of Islam. We are not taught or even introduced to Muslim leaders who stand with us against terrorism.

Our media communication is the origin of the calls to destroy Islam. Because what we want to is be safe guarded from terrorists and we are given ZERO separation between the two concepts.

 

[bradly1101]

It's when we step out of our ideals, our boundaries that we get in trouble.

France, Canada and Australia all joined us in this perceived war on Islam and all were attacked. The media is couching this as a war on free speech (and therefore themselves) but it wasn't just a magazine that got attacked.

As a gay man I know that who I love is offensive to some Muslims and if I were 'out' in our ally's country of Saudi Arabia I would be subject to the death penalty, and I grew up with an anti-gay sentiment in this country. I'm not making claims on who's right and who's wrong. Humans are humans. Thankfully we've progressed, obviously other places haven't.

I'm just saying that we'd better get used to these attacks. All of our defense and offense in the 'war on terror' have only metastasized the problem. We haven't had a big attack since 9-11, and we lock cockpit doors and don't allow knives on planes. These smaller scale but equally publicized attacks seem to be on the rise.

We're trying to fight an idea.

 

[OutHouse]

For example, they have shown nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms. They have also shown Muhammad in pornographic poses.

Boo fucking hoo

 

[OutHouse]

Yet another post from one who think that the universe wouldnt exist without him....

Invading Iraq and killing tens thousands innocent civilians was an act of revenge staged against a nation that was in no way responsible with what happened in the Us in 2001, as such it s an honor killing, or rather a dishonoring killing since it was an illegal war supported by a fanatised US citizenry, so much for the cultural equivalence, you are so entrenched with supremacism that you hold your baselessness as being noble, lol of a lol, buy yourself a functional brain before starting to talk of random killings..

You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round

 

[freegeeks]

uncensored video of the attack by RAID, the terrorist eats 2 kg of lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZoJ8TIFSXU


link is dead

new link

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=869_1420833044

 

[5150Joker]

uncensored video of the attack by RAID, the terrorist eats 2 kg of lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZoJ8TIFSXU

The guy clearly didn't play enough Counter Strike.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Interesting, talk about your 'slut shaming'.

Catholic League President Bill Donohue wrote, 2 days ago:

MUSLIMS ARE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY

January 7, 2015 by Bill
Filed under Latest News Releases
2015 - January Releases


"Bill Donohue comments on the killing of 12 people at the Paris office of the newspaper Charlie Hebdo:

Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned. That is why what happened in Paris cannot be tolerated. But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction.

Those who work at this newspaper have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. For example, they have shown nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms. They have also shown Muhammad in pornographic poses.

While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed. What they object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.

Stephane Charbonnier, the paper’s publisher, was killed today in the slaughter. It is too bad that he didn’t understand the role he played in his tragic death. In 2012, when asked why he insults Muslims, he said, “Muhammad isn’t sacred to me.” Had he not been so narcissistic, he may still be alive. Muhammad isn’t sacred to me, either, but it would never occur to me to deliberately insult Muslims by trashing him.

Anti-Catholic artists in this country have provoked me to hold many demonstrations, but never have I counseled violence. This, however, does not empty the issue. Madison was right when he said, “Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as the abuses of power.”

http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

Shortened to "Religion has the sacred right not to be offended".

Thanks, retarded religious guy. Amazing how dumb people can say so much yet with zero substance behind it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

When the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the world are performed by Islamic-based groups, literally hundreds of attacks a year, when does the mainstream religion as a whole have to start accepting some responsibility that horrors are being performed in their name?

Yes the average Muslim is shocked by these attacks and personally would never hurt another human being. But I'm increasingly feeling that shock and revulsion aren't enough anymore - that they have a religious duty to actively speak out against and work against the root causes that are creating this extremism.

That if a congregation doesn't excommunicate any iman who preaches violence, then they accept that blood is on their hands, even if they don't commit violence themselves. That imans who don't believe in violence band together and excommunicate those that do. That those that are willing to proclaim they support violence are pushed to the social fringes in their country, mocked, and scorned by their fellow religious believers. Saying it's wrong isn't enough - they must lead the charge to end extremism in the name of their religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015

You should email all the Muslims and let them know how you feel.

 

[1prophet]

Interesting, talk about your 'slut shaming'.

Catholic League President Bill Donohue wrote, 2 days ago:

MUSLIMS ARE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY

January 7, 2015 by Bill
Filed under Latest News Releases
2015 - January Releases


"Bill Donohue comments on the killing of 12 people at the Paris office of the newspaper Charlie Hebdo:

Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned. That is why what happened in Paris cannot be tolerated. But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction.

Those who work at this newspaper have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. For example, they have shown nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms. They have also shown Muhammad in pornographic poses.

While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed. What they object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.

Stephane Charbonnier, the paper’s publisher, was killed today in the slaughter. It is too bad that he didn’t understand the role he played in his tragic death. In 2012, when asked why he insults Muslims, he said, “Muhammad isn’t sacred to me.” Had he not been so narcissistic, he may still be alive. Muhammad isn’t sacred to me, either, but it would never occur to me to deliberately insult Muslims by trashing him.

Anti-Catholic artists in this country have provoked me to hold many demonstrations, but never have I counseled violence. This, however, does not empty the issue. Madison was right when he said, “Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as the abuses of power.”

http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

I defend the right for her decision to wear what she wants but if she wasn't wearing that provocative short skirt she wouldn't have been raped.

 

[Blanky]

When the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the world are performed by Islamic-based groups, literally hundreds of attacks a year, when does the mainstream religion as a whole have to start accepting some responsibility that horrors are being performed in their name?

It's actually thousands a year. We don't hear about most because they are perpetrated by muslims against other muslims. On the same day (?) the France attack happened there was a bombing in Yemen that took out 30 or so people iirc.

Irrespective of what may or may not be politically correct, the intelligence community knows where terrorism originates and that's why, for example, France has been monitoring mosques for decades. A few loud voices here or elsewhere may give a false impression that there is still some sort of debate over whether islam has any link to terrorism but among people with any clue there is no debate.

 

[Orignal Earl]

It's actually thousands a year. We don't hear about most because they are perpetrated by muslims against other muslims. On the same day (?) the France attack happened there was a bombing in Yemen that took out 30 or so people iirc.

Irrespective of what may or may not be politically correct, the intelligence community knows where terrorism originates and that's why, for example, France has been monitoring mosques for decades. A few loud voices here or elsewhere may give a false impression that there is still some sort of debate over whether islam has any link to terrorism but among people with any clue there is no debate.

Looks like almost all of the terrorist attacks originate in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan
I'm thinking the intel community is aware of that too

 

[michal1980]

I don't give a damn who/what they claimed to be killing for. They're the kind of assholes who look for *anything* to justify the fact that they are assholes who want to do the things that assholes like to do.

Some assholes call themselves Muslims, some call themselves Christians, some call themselves KKK, some call themselves Hell's Angels, some call themselves Nazis, some call themselves communists. What they share in common, they're all fucking assholes. Their 'beliefs' are meaningless.

who cares what you pea brain thinks. Reality doesn't care what you ignore.

Go educate yourself. Maybe you should move to Europe, continue their pattern of reality denial.

Or just read this, it makes a lot of sense.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...lam_and_terrorism_europeans_are_both_too.html

This part applies to you, and all liberals in bubbles.

Those who advocate for a more diverse Europe tend to have a lot of fun pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of liberal Islamophobia. But, all too often, these tolerant souls are guilty of an equally dangerous hypocrisy of their own. They rightly lament that there’s a lot of prejudice against Muslims, but they wrongly infer that we should refrain from criticizing any manifestation of Islam—and consequently deny that there is anything Islamic about the kind of terrorism that has just left a Paris magazine’s offices riddled with bullets.


The terrorism of ISIS and al-Qaida no more defines Islam than the Crusades or the Inquisition define Christianity. But just as no historian can make sense of the nature of the Crusades without grappling seriously with the religious beliefs of their protagonists, so too it is impossible to make sense of Islamic terrorism without taking seriously the religious motivations of those who perpetrate it.


In denying that Islamic terrorism has anything to do with Islam—or that a small fringe of fundamentalist Muslims poses a real threat to values we deeply cherish—self-styled defenders of Muslim immigrants are making the same mistake as their adversaries. For political reasons, they blind themselves to the vast differences among various forms of Islam.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So what should be done? Exterminate all Muslims worldwide for the action of a few extremists who are practicing a bastardized version of Islam?

 

[Jaskalas]

So what should be done?

*cough...

When the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the world are performed by Islamic-based groups, literally hundreds of attacks a year, when does the mainstream religion as a whole have to start accepting some responsibility that horrors are being performed in their name?

Yes the average Muslim is shocked by these attacks and personally would never hurt another human being. But I'm increasingly feeling that shock and revulsion aren't enough anymore - that they have a religious duty to actively speak out against and work against the root causes that are creating this extremism.

That if a congregation doesn't excommunicate any iman who preaches violence, then they accept that blood is on their hands, even if they don't commit violence themselves. That imans who don't believe in violence band together and excommunicate those that do. That those that are willing to proclaim they support violence are pushed to the social fringes in their country, mocked, and scorned by their fellow religious believers. Saying it's wrong isn't enough - they must lead the charge to end extremism in the name of their religion.

 

[Jaskalas]

Some more info.

The terrorist introduced himself to us. He was strangely calm. "I am Amedi Coulibaly, Malian and Muslim. I belong to the Islamic State," he told us.'

‘Then he told us to put our phones on the ground. He walked around the store, armed, totally justifying himself, speaking of Palestine, French prisons, his brothers in Syria and many other things.

 

[Orignal Earl]

So what should be done?

Everything that can be done is being done?
We are basically at war with AQ and ISIS
Some posters believe that we should put some cameras inside all the mosques just to make sure they are ok citizens as well

 

[Londo_Jowo]

*cough...

How do you know that local Imans/Mosques aren't speaking out about the use of violence in the name of their religion. As I stated earlier in this thread even if it's 20 million extremist that's only 0.0125% of the total Muslims world wide.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim can do anything more to stop the violence in the name of their religion than the average Chicagoan can do to stop the violence that takes place in Chicago every day.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Interesting, talk about your 'slut shaming'.

Catholic League President Bill Donohue wrote, 2 days ago:

MUSLIMS ARE RIGHT TO BE ANGRY

January 7, 2015 by Bill
Filed under Latest News Releases
2015 - January Releases


"Bill Donohue comments on the killing of 12 people at the Paris office of the newspaper Charlie Hebdo:

Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned. That is why what happened in Paris cannot be tolerated. But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction.

Those who work at this newspaper have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. For example, they have shown nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms. They have also shown Muhammad in pornographic poses.

While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed. What they object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.

Stephane Charbonnier, the paper’s publisher, was killed today in the slaughter. It is too bad that he didn’t understand the role he played in his tragic death. In 2012, when asked why he insults Muslims, he said, “Muhammad isn’t sacred to me.” Had he not been so narcissistic, he may still be alive. Muhammad isn’t sacred to me, either, but it would never occur to me to deliberately insult Muslims by trashing him.

Anti-Catholic artists in this country have provoked me to hold many demonstrations, but never have I counseled violence. This, however, does not empty the issue. Madison was right when he said, “Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as the abuses of power.”

http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

Many people have the right to be angry, but what they do not have is the right to harm others because they are offended. Looking at how Christians are maligned on these forums in ways that could anger them. Piss Christ? That's approved government insult. "Shit Mohammed"? You think the NEA would support that? The administration and others would shut that down in a heartbeat. The fact that this double standard exists in fact could drive Christians to kill, yet the artist lived to tell and display his work. It's a rare thing indeed to have that sort of thing happen. I don't know of uprisings which kill hundreds or thousands because someone tried to respectfully dispose of worn out Bibles.

Our society just doesn't allow such things, but a real problem is that much of Islam doesn't adapt well to western concepts. That's fine if a Muslim is in their native land, but the expectation on the part of troublemakers is that the culture needs to adapt to them. Well, no it doesn't, in fact the reverse. Everyone who came to this country had to adapt to us. The Italians, Irish, all had their cultures, but in the end we had a melting pot. These days it seems that the pot is being overturned and we are becoming a nation of cultural isolationism that insists their rules from their place of origin override all other concerns. No nation can withstand this as it is not law, but it is cultural commonality and cohesiveness which form the basis of a functional society. Note this does not that all identity must be stripped away. No, our heritage is something which strongly affects us and can be a positive motivator for the common social paradigm, but that is not always the case, and it cannot become the master of the masses. I think this is a problem with some Muslims, seeking to carve out sections of countries where they can do what they would in their own place of origins.

That happens with every wave of immigration. The Irish, Italians and others tended to live in close knit societies, but generally they tried to become Americans, and their children adopted the sense of nation and society and language which existed. They didn't try to force others to deal with a permanent alien population, that their old laws should supercede in effect the usual legal processes.

I'm sure someone can point to an instance where my general statement has exceptions. I know that this does not apply to all Muslims everywhere. I do know that of all large groups of immigrants today Muslims are more resistant to adopt the ways of their host nations than any other. That definitely works against them. When a significant percentage of them believe that suicide bombing is warranted on occasion, then there is a real problem, and saying "well it's not a majority, just 8 or 20%" isn't comforting at all.

I have no idea how to fix this.

 

[Jaskalas]

How do you know that local Imans/Mosques aren't speaking out about the use of violence in the name of their religion.

This goes back to the communication I mentioned earlier. Media gives us the narrative that Islam = Terrorism 24/7. I cannot name a single person on our side. Can the average guy on the street?

Those who threw firebombs at French Mosques clearly don't know either, who is friend or foe. We are given ZERO separation between Islam and Terrorism. There needs to be an organized outreach effort on both sides to mend our civilization and ward against terrorists.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim can do anything more to stop the violence in the name of their religion than the average Chicagoan can do to stop the violence that takes place in Chicago every day.

We ALL must answer for these crimes. To stand up and stop the segregation and festering of two divisive societies before they start a full fledged war against one another. Terrorism is the warning that we must do more.

More to stop this: Muslims segregated from French society in growing Islamist mini-states

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How do you know that local Imans/Mosques aren't speaking out about the use of violence in the name of their religion. As I stated earlier in this thread even if it's 20 million extremist that's only 0.0125% of the total Muslims world wide.

Do you honestly think the average Muslim can do anything more to stop the violence in the name of their religion than the average Chicagoan can do to stop the violence that takes place in Chicago every day.

I accept that your comments about Imans/Mosques and Western Muslims are overwhelmingly peaceful. I don't fear Muslims at all. Even so you ought to remember that Islam is supreme in many nations, and the government is subservient to it and whatever it is defined as. They are theocracies in large part. As such Islam IS the government, and ruled by clerics or by elected officers who are bound to the Quran first and foremost. So you bring up the average Chicagoan as being unable to deal with crime, but that's not the case. Imagine a situation where there is a religion which overwhelmingly dominate Chicago. Not only does almost everyone actively support it, but all the elected officials, police, the bureaucracy, the law itself are entirely subservient to the preachers of some holy book, which is supreme over any law or Constitution. In fact the Constitution requires that that book is supreme over anything including the Constitution itself.

In that case the "average" citizen is still powerless, but the religion he or she embraces is entirely responsible for how the city or nation functions, as there is by definition no higher power. It is the One Ring, all powerful, all controlling. If it fails to reign in the actions of it's followers then when there is conflict with others who do not subscribe to that thinking then there will be problems. Islamic societies ARE inherently different from western ideas of freedom and governance.

Our ideas are absurd at times so it's not like we have a monopoly on rationality. Our religion is not Christianity. It's profit. We regard the acquisition of things to be our highest goal. We have sabotaged nation after nation because there was money to be gain by corporations which in turn support favorably disposed politicians conferring what they crave, power. Much of what has happened is proximally linked to our actions. If Churchill had not had the cooperation of the CIA to throw down the elected government of Iran to protect BP, then it would be unlikely that we'd see the fundamentalist movement as we do today. Our treatment of the ME caused the hate necessary to execute 9/11. Actions have consequences and the imperialism of the UK backed by our own selfish interests caused the ME we see today. It started over a hundred years ago and now we get inevitable fruits of that labor.

So now we have generations of abuse and mistrust. Decades of barbarism and conquest, and then we make ourselves even more vulnerable by becoming dependent on those who we despise and in return hate us.

What fools these mortals be.

 

[michal1980]

This goes back to the communication I mentioned earlier. Media gives us the narrative that Islam = Terrorism 24/7. I cannot name a single person on our side. Can the average guy on the street?

Those who threw firebombs at French Mosques clearly don't know either, who is friend or foe. We are given ZERO separation between Islam and Terrorism. There needs to be an organized outreach effort on both sides to mend our civilization and ward against terrorists.



We ALL must answer for these crimes. To stand up and stop the segregation and festering of two divisive societies before they start a full fledged war against one another. Terrorism is the warning that we must do more.

More to stop this: Muslims segregated from French society in growing Islamist mini-states

Did you read the Washington times article? Its pretty clear where the blame lies: Muslims that don't want to integrate into western society, Muslims that want return to 9th century laws, and liberals, that brand anyone that speaks out against this as Islamophobic or racist.

 

[Blanky]

Looks like almost all of the terrorist attacks originate in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan
I'm thinking the intel community is aware of that too

Exactly. Heavily islamic populations.

So what should be done? Exterminate all Muslims worldwide for the action of a few extremists who are practicing a bastardized version of Islam?

The intelligence community already knows that most terrorists come from islamic ideology, so they already spend the bulk of their attention on this demographic and will continue to irrespective of what we say on message board or on political stages.

Hayabusa's post 570 is right on point.

There is a large difference between coming to the US from the Ukraine and spending time in a local Ukranian community eating your homeland's food and practicing some of its celebrations vs coming and holding the view that sharia law should be replacing the real law in some areas, as 40% of british muslims hold. This is not called embracing your new country. It's no wonder that causes friction.

 

[bradly1101]

Boo fucking hoo

He doesn't know the best feature of free speech is the ability to offend. And if that offense goes against the beliefs of a radical, well then...

It was ironic (but typical for the show) last night on Bill Maher. They spoke of calling hate speech toward the U.S. what it really is, evil, and should be treated as such. But in the same segment they spoke of how of course these cartoonists have the right to publish anything they want about Islam. From some Muslims' point of view the cartoonist's work is equally evil and should be treated as such.

It all depends on point of view, but we're drama queens; let's fight it out!

 

[Kadarin]

Islam has no place in a modern liberal democracy that values freedom of speech, expression, and religion. Not when Muslims do not embrace those values, and in fact oppose them with deadly violence.

 

[jpeyton]

Islam has no place in a modern liberal democracy that values freedom of speech, expression, and religion. Not when Muslims do not embrace those values, and in fact oppose them with deadly violence.

Islam already exists in most modern liberal democracies, because by definition most modern liberal democracies do not create exclusionary policies favoring one religion over another.

If you want to sanction government-sponsored persecution of law-abiding individuals based on their religion, talk to the Iranians or North Koreans.