Zune HD gets official!

[ChaoZ]

I hate this trend where music players no longer have buttons.

 

[oogabooga]

I think i'll wait to see more about it, but i'm definitely interested. Resolution and a nice screen are my main concerns. Size and Battery being next.

Primarily I want to watch movies/tv shows & use zune pass on it. We'll see how they do it, but I think Xanis is right that around $300 would have me going in for sure.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The 16x9 screen strikes me as a poor choice. 16x9(1.77) is great for movies, but little else. Which is why LCD monitors are 16x10 (1.6) and the iPhone is even more square at 1.5. This is going to make web browsing harder compared to the iPhone, since either you have to reflow a site to even thinner proportions (which can be hard) or use the landscape mode where it's shorter. Either Microsoft is going to stick with media far more heavily than Apple has (whereas the iPhone platform is a full-fledged PDA), or someone made a poor choice. The use of OLED is an interesting choice, but I'd like to see some actual product comparisons (both in terms of visuals and the power cost) before making a final determination.

Meanwhile HD Radio has been a wash, I don't expect it to do anything more for the Zune HD than FM did for the first Zune.

The ability to play 720p media files is nice, but I'd like to see what the hit to battery life is. Anything you encode yourself would be better off at the native resolution, so the only benefit to this is that MS doesn't need to distribute SD and HD versions of files for the Xbox and Zune respectively. That kind of simplification may not be worth the hit to the batter if there is one.

Watching tv clips on your Zune which is 16:9 as well. How much media content isn't 16:9???

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
I hate this trend where music players no longer have buttons.

Yup. Makes it damn near impossible to use while driving a car.

 

[Lonyo]

What a multimedia player should support:

Video Playback:
* (Max 1280x720 30frame/s) AVI, WMV, ASF, MP4, MKV, OGM, MPG/MPEG, DAT, MTV
o DivX 3.11/4/5/6, XviD, MPEG4 SP/ASP, WMV9/8/7, H.264, M-JPEG, MPEG1
* Audio: (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, OGG Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, BSAC, True Audio, WavPack, G.726, PCM
* Multi Audio Track Playback (supports AVI, MKV, OGM Max 8 tracks)

Audio Playback:
* (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MP3/2/1, WMA, ASF, AC3, FLAC, OGG, M4A, MATROSKA(MKA), TTA, APE, MPC, WV, WAV
o MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, AAC, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, OGG FLAC, APPLE Lossless, True Audio, Monkey Audio, MusePack, WavPack, G.726, PCM

If the Zune HD doesn't have all/most of that, it's pretty worthless.

 

[EGGO]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
I hate this trend where music players no longer have buttons.

So do I. Here's a good article about that: http://www.anythingbutipod.com...s-tactile-controls.php

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
What a multimedia player should support:

Video Playback:
* (Max 1280x720 30frame/s) AVI, WMV, ASF, MP4, MKV, OGM, MPG/MPEG, DAT, MTV
o DivX 3.11/4/5/6, XviD, MPEG4 SP/ASP, WMV9/8/7, H.264, M-JPEG, MPEG1
* Audio: (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, OGG Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, BSAC, True Audio, WavPack, G.726, PCM
* Multi Audio Track Playback (supports AVI, MKV, OGM Max 8 tracks)

Audio Playback:
* (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MP3/2/1, WMA, ASF, AC3, FLAC, OGG, M4A, MATROSKA(MKA), TTA, APE, MPC, WV, WAV
o MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, AAC, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, OGG FLAC, APPLE Lossless, True Audio, Monkey Audio, MusePack, WavPack, G.726, PCM

If the Zune HD doesn't have all/most of that, it's pretty worthless.

IDK, while a lot of the stuff on that list is crucial and/or badass, I think at least 80% of the PMP market could care less because they just have no idea. Look at the heaps of crap Ipods sold for example. Particularly obscure are a lot of those audio standards, at least as far as casual users are concerned.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
What a multimedia player should support:

Video Playback:
* (Max 1280x720 30frame/s) AVI, WMV, ASF, MP4, MKV, OGM, MPG/MPEG, DAT, MTV
o DivX 3.11/4/5/6, XviD, MPEG4 SP/ASP, WMV9/8/7, H.264, M-JPEG, MPEG1
* Audio: (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, OGG Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, BSAC, True Audio, WavPack, G.726, PCM
* Multi Audio Track Playback (supports AVI, MKV, OGM Max 8 tracks)

Audio Playback:
* (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MP3/2/1, WMA, ASF, AC3, FLAC, OGG, M4A, MATROSKA(MKA), TTA, APE, MPC, WV, WAV
o MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, AAC, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, OGG FLAC, APPLE Lossless, True Audio, Monkey Audio, MusePack, WavPack, G.726, PCM

If the Zune HD doesn't have all/most of that, it's pretty worthless.

I love my music, I'm familiar with the formats, I can even rank quality of lossy formats by subjective testing, but 50% of those formats you listed combined have less than 1% market share if that.
Monkey Audio-useless
Musepack and Wavpack, never even heard of it
G.726, PCM, True Audio, WV, MPC see above
MP1/MP2 have been deprecated standards for decades now
MKA, M4A, I have never met a single person that has had a single file in those formats
Apple Lossless, probably a licensing problem there

Most of your list is pretty much overkill. Combine that with the fact this is a Portable player to be listened on with headphones. Unless you're spending 4 digit figures on headphones, OGG, AAC and MP3 at max bitrates are going to sound pretty much identical.

Add in a dash of background noise and the whole "audiophile snob" thing goes out the window. Above 256k MP3, it would be near impossible to figure out the difference for 99.9% of people in a double blind test with even excellent headphones, with any sort of background noise.

Expecting portable players to have the sound quality and codec support of a $15k audio system connected to a HTPC is neither realistic nor even remotely required.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: destrekor
Official information on storage is needed. I :heart: my Zune 120, and with Zune Pass, I'm really going to always want that storage as an option. Having to drop $300 for 32gb isn't going to entice me one bit. I don't care about expansion through SDHC, I want on-board if I'm paying that kind of price. Flash storage is great and all, but I don't need an MP3 player to be paper thin, I can deal with a little thickness dammit.
Or maybe Microsoft will really surprise us and get 64gb in this for a reasonable price? Say, $300 or less. 😀
Here's to expecting 16, 32gb, and 64gb flavors, price of entry $250, top end $400+. 🙁

Yeah, but for that $300 you get an OLED touch screen and an HD tuner. The 32GB iPod Touch has neither of those, yet costst $100 more.

Your forgetting one big juggernaut though, Apps.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The 16x9 screen strikes me as a poor choice. 16x9(1.77) is great for movies, but little else. Which is why LCD monitors are 16x10 (1.6) and the iPhone is even more square at 1.5. This is going to make web browsing harder compared to the iPhone, since either you have to reflow a site to even thinner proportions (which can be hard) or use the landscape mode where it's shorter. Either Microsoft is going to stick with media far more heavily than Apple has (whereas the iPhone platform is a full-fledged PDA), or someone made a poor choice. The use of OLED is an interesting choice, but I'd like to see some actual product comparisons (both in terms of visuals and the power cost) before making a final determination.

Meanwhile HD Radio has been a wash, I don't expect it to do anything more for the Zune HD than FM did for the first Zune.

The ability to play 720p media files is nice, but I'd like to see what the hit to battery life is. Anything you encode yourself would be better off at the native resolution, so the only benefit to this is that MS doesn't need to distribute SD and HD versions of files for the Xbox and Zune respectively. That kind of simplification may not be worth the hit to the batter if there is one.

Watching tv clips on your Zune which is 16:9 as well. How much media content isn't 16:9???

File TV under Movies. It's the same thing. The screen is appropriate for Movies, but little else.

 

[dougp]

I'd really like to see this translate into a Zune phone, which would move me away from the iPhone. Specs sound nice, but as someone said - apps from the App Store trump it. Just like the 360 over the PS3.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: destrekor
Official information on storage is needed. I :heart: my Zune 120, and with Zune Pass, I'm really going to always want that storage as an option. Having to drop $300 for 32gb isn't going to entice me one bit. I don't care about expansion through SDHC, I want on-board if I'm paying that kind of price. Flash storage is great and all, but I don't need an MP3 player to be paper thin, I can deal with a little thickness dammit.
Or maybe Microsoft will really surprise us and get 64gb in this for a reasonable price? Say, $300 or less. 😀
Here's to expecting 16, 32gb, and 64gb flavors, price of entry $250, top end $400+. 🙁

Yeah, but for that $300 you get an OLED touch screen and an HD tuner. The 32GB iPod Touch has neither of those, yet costst $100 more.

Your forgetting one big juggernaut though, Apps.

Not to mention mindshare. Apple does some things well enough, but mostly you're paying for a brand name. Apple products are 'trendy' right now, so marketing has to play a big role in showing a superior product and getting it to sell.

I have a roommate, she's mid-20's, and doesn't know a lot about computers in general. She has a nice PC, but wants to get a Mac notebook to run Photoshop on, because she for some reason thinks that it will work better on a Mac. I'm like WTF? Yeah some of the Apple notebooks are stylish enough, but you're really paying a buttload of money for an Intel-based platform and a fancy case. $2k on a Macbook vs. $2k on a PC Notebook is no contest.

I would expect Apple to fire back soon with some long-awaited improvements to the Ipod line, namely audio quality to begin with. They certainly won't go down without a fight.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: destrekor
Official information on storage is needed. I :heart: my Zune 120, and with Zune Pass, I'm really going to always want that storage as an option. Having to drop $300 for 32gb isn't going to entice me one bit. I don't care about expansion through SDHC, I want on-board if I'm paying that kind of price. Flash storage is great and all, but I don't need an MP3 player to be paper thin, I can deal with a little thickness dammit.
Or maybe Microsoft will really surprise us and get 64gb in this for a reasonable price? Say, $300 or less. 😀
Here's to expecting 16, 32gb, and 64gb flavors, price of entry $250, top end $400+. 🙁

Yeah, but for that $300 you get an OLED touch screen and an HD tuner. The 32GB iPod Touch has neither of those, yet costst $100 more.

Your forgetting one big juggernaut though, Apps.

Not to mention mindshare. Apple does some things well enough, but mostly you're paying for a brand name. Apple products are 'trendy' right now, so marketing has to play a big role in showing a superior product and getting it to sell.

I have a roommate, she's mid-20's, and doesn't know a lot about computers in general. She has a nice PC, but wants to get a Mac notebook to run Photoshop on, because she for some reason thinks that it will work better on a Mac. I'm like WTF? Yeah some of the Apple notebooks are stylish enough, but you're really paying a buttload of money for an Intel-based platform and a fancy case. $2k on a Macbook vs. $2k on a PC Notebook is no contest.

I would expect Apple to fire back soon with some long-awaited improvements to the Ipod line, namely audio quality to begin with. They certainly won't go down without a fight.

Its been argued time and time again, but frankly this isn't the thread for it so i'll keep my mouth shut to get this back on topic.

 

[Arkaign]

Ah, didn't see that : 'All things Apple' moderator 😉

^^ Not a callout or jab, just interesting in context.

I don't think it would be off-topic to compare Apple products on the big picture here, as the Zune is quite clearly modeled as an Ipod competitor, no matter what anyone says.

EDIT : An example of the sometimes extreme price difference ...

Apple MacBook Pro, base configuration :

$1,999
2GB DDR3-1066
250GB SATA 5400RPM HDD
2.4Ghz Core2Duo
8X DVD+-RW
Geforce 9400M
15" Widescreen (LED Backlit)

Dell Studio 16, base configuration :

$1,299
4GB DDR3-1066
500GB SATA 7200RPM HDD
2.53Ghz Core2Duo
BD-Rom/DVD+-RW
ATI Radeon HD3670 512MB (miles better than 9400M)
16" Widescreen (LED Backlit)
Bluetooth, Wireless, etc, etc, etc on both of these notebooks

So, $700 more, half the ram, slower cpu, much slower video, smaller screen, no BluRay, slower hard drive at half the size, etc. The Mac still has a shade more trend/bling factor to some people, but jeez. And I chose that Dell just because they're a big box brand like Apple, you can easily find a comparable notebook for an even lower price.

So if people are willing to pay out the butt even for low-spec products like the example above, I can easily see people ignoring an improved Zune HD if Apple maintains the mindshare element.

 

[UpgradeFailure]

Rumor had it you could sync it up to your 360 and play any 360 xbox live arcade game on the zune HD. Any truth to that? Portable 360 arcade gaming=awesome

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: UpgradeFailure
Rumor had it you could sync it up to your 360 and play any 360 xbox live arcade game on the zune HD. Any truth to that? Portable 360 arcade gaming=awesome

That would be genius. I bet Microsoft knows that as long as the playback features are relatively competent (I'm sure they would be), the key to getting traction is killer features like that. Mobile Xbox gaming + multimedia box = win?

 

[luv2liv]

my car has the ipod dock, not the AUX.
does the current Zune fit that 30pin connector? this Zune HD is enticing... but the convenience and the proliferation of the ipod dock is holding me back 🙁

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: luv2liv
my car has the ipod dock, not the AUX.
does the current Zune fit that 30pin connector? this Zune HD is enticing... but the convenience and the proliferation of the ipod dock is holding me back 🙁

Well, realistically, you can expect Apple to release a comparable product soon, to keep that convenience factor. I like my GF's Zune much better than the Ipods I've used, but there's some definite truth to staying with what works for you.

 

[TheVrolok]

I :heart: my Zune. This Zune HD looks sexy.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Lonyo
What a multimedia player should support:

Video Playback:
* (Max 1280x720 30frame/s) AVI, WMV, ASF, MP4, MKV, OGM, MPG/MPEG, DAT, MTV
o DivX 3.11/4/5/6, XviD, MPEG4 SP/ASP, WMV9/8/7, H.264, M-JPEG, MPEG1
* Audio: (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, OGG Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, BSAC, True Audio, WavPack, G.726, PCM
* Multi Audio Track Playback (supports AVI, MKV, OGM Max 8 tracks)

Audio Playback:
* (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MP3/2/1, WMA, ASF, AC3, FLAC, OGG, M4A, MATROSKA(MKA), TTA, APE, MPC, WV, WAV
o MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, AAC, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, OGG FLAC, APPLE Lossless, True Audio, Monkey Audio, MusePack, WavPack, G.726, PCM

If the Zune HD doesn't have all/most of that, it's pretty worthless.

IDK, while a lot of the stuff on that list is crucial and/or badass, I think at least 80% of the PMP market could care less because they just have no idea. Look at the heaps of crap Ipods sold for example. Particularly obscure are a lot of those audio standards, at least as far as casual users are concerned.

Yup, few people care about FLAC support and stuff like that. Then again it should be fairly trivial to add support for these codecs, so it'd be nice if more players supported them.

Definitely some pretty cool features MS has packed into the new Zune, though, HD radio is nice. :thumbsup:

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: luv2liv
my car has the ipod dock, not the AUX.
does the current Zune fit that 30pin connector? this Zune HD is enticing... but the convenience and the proliferation of the ipod dock is holding me back 🙁

Well, realistically, you can expect Apple to release a comparable product soon, to keep that convenience factor. I like my GF's Zune much better than the Ipods I've used, but there's some definite truth to staying with what works for you.

i don't understand why there isn't a universal pin setup. it would make so much more sense, but then people couldn't take their cuts of accessories sales, i guess

 

[beat mania]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i'm not gonna lie - i have almost 0 interest in MP3 players, but that thing looks sexy.

It looks sexy? Its just a rectangle with a screen, looks just like an ipod. Or one of those smart phones with a giant screen and a slid out thumb board that is tucked away.

For the Zune to look like all these generic gadgets that comes out with new ones every other week, it is disappointing, actually.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: destrekor
Official information on storage is needed. I :heart: my Zune 120, and with Zune Pass, I'm really going to always want that storage as an option. Having to drop $300 for 32gb isn't going to entice me one bit. I don't care about expansion through SDHC, I want on-board if I'm paying that kind of price. Flash storage is great and all, but I don't need an MP3 player to be paper thin, I can deal with a little thickness dammit.
Or maybe Microsoft will really surprise us and get 64gb in this for a reasonable price? Say, $300 or less. 😀
Here's to expecting 16, 32gb, and 64gb flavors, price of entry $250, top end $400+. 🙁

Yeah, but for that $300 you get an OLED touch screen and an HD tuner. The 32GB iPod Touch has neither of those, yet costst $100 more.

and yet the majority could care less cus it has the Apple name on it. Here's to hoping this is going to be very competitive.

apps are win though. its not just people being stupid.

 

[quackerww]

This oozes sex...
Is mechanical eroticism legal?

I kid, I kid... I am going steady with the toaster.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
What a multimedia player should support:

Video Playback:
* (Max 1280x720 30frame/s) AVI, WMV, ASF, MP4, MKV, OGM, MPG/MPEG, DAT, MTV
o DivX 3.11/4/5/6, XviD, MPEG4 SP/ASP, WMV9/8/7, H.264, M-JPEG, MPEG1
* Audio: (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, OGG Vorbis, AAC, FLAC, BSAC, True Audio, WavPack, G.726, PCM
* Multi Audio Track Playback (supports AVI, MKV, OGM Max 8 tracks)

Audio Playback:
* (Max 96 kHz, 1.4 Mbit/s) MP3/2/1, WMA, ASF, AC3, FLAC, OGG, M4A, MATROSKA(MKA), TTA, APE, MPC, WV, WAV
o MPEG1 Layer 1/2/3, WMA, AC3, AAC, FLAC, OGG Vorbis, OGG FLAC, APPLE Lossless, True Audio, Monkey Audio, MusePack, WavPack, G.726, PCM

If the Zune HD doesn't have all/most of that, it's pretty worthless.

What nonsense. When was the last tiem you listened to a WAV file on the go? Not to mention the terribly obscure crap on that list.