Zionism, the path to peace.

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
Israel defies U.S., approves another 1,600 settler homes near Jerusalem -- The Globe And Mail

Barely 48 hours after U.S. diplomats delivered a sharp rebuke to the Israeli government over its latest plans to build hundreds of additional housing units in settlements inside Jerusalem, the Americans got their answer: Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai announced Thursday that 1,600 more units would be built in a similar settlement area of greater Jerusalem, occupied by Israel in 1967.

The rebuff of the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama was jarring even by Israeli standards during the often tense Obama-Benjamin Netanyahu years.

The move suggests that either Mr. Yishai, leader of the Haredi Shas party, was accelerating things to suit his own constituency or, more likely, that Mr. Netanyahu found it necessary to offer the housing concession as a way to keep his coalition partner happy.

The U.S. criticism, received Tuesday, scorned the approval of 930 housing units announced last week for the community of Har Homa, an extensive development on a hilltop between the outskirts of southern Jerusalem and the Palestinian city of Bethlehem.

The missive said that Washington was “deeply concerned” by the approval of new settlement housing, adding that such “unilateral actions work against the efforts to resume direct negotiations,” something Israel has called on the Palestinian leadership to do, rather than pursue a bid for statehood recognition at the United Nations in September.

Interestingly, the 1,600 units announced Thursday for the settlement of Ramat Shlomo are the very ones that Israel put on the table for approval in March of 2010, just as U.S. Vice-President Joe Biden was arriving in Israel in an effort to restart peace talks.

That move, described by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as an insult, sent U.S.-Israeli relations into a deep freeze for several months.

Thursday’s approval of what’s referred to locally as the “Biden” housing will have its own chilling effect.

The Obama administration is “concerned about continuing Israeli action with respect to housing construction in East Jerusalem,” State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland said.

“Unilateral action of this kind works against our effort to get folks back to the table,” Ms. Nuland said. “This kind of activity is concerning and doesn’t improve the environment.”

Officials in Israel’s Interior Ministry said actual building would not commence for some time, explaining there were “significant planning procedures” still pending.

“Israel thinks it is above international law,” said Saeb Erekat, head of the Palestinian negotiating team in a statement to reporters. “In the past few days, members of the international community, including all members of the Quartet [Russia, the European Union, the United Nations and the U.S.], condemned the expansion of the illegal settlement of Har Homa,” he added. “Israel has responded to this international consensus with intransigence and willful disregard.”


The veteran negotiator called on the United States and its partners to react strongly against the latest measures.

“The international community has a permanent responsibility to uphold international law, protect the Palestinian people, support the Palestinian State and hold Israel accountable for its persistent violations,” he said.

Israel purportedly annexed the occupied portions of Jerusalem shortly after the 1967 conflict, an occupation that has not been recognized by any other country.

Palestinians are concerned that chipping away at the parts of Jerusalem they hope will be the capital of a Palestinian state is undermining their dream and ruling out peaceful negotiations.

They are closing the door, warned Yariv Oppenheimer, head of the Israeli organization Peace Now.

“Interior Minister Eli Yishai’s actions destroy the chance of reaching any political solution in Jerusalem, and deal a fatal blow to Israel’s status on the eve of the UN Assembly meeting,” Mr. Oppenheimer said.

About 200,000 Jewish Israelis already live in the communities of occupied Jerusalem. Another 300,000 Israelis live in settlements throughout the occupied West Bank.

Some critics, such as Mr. Oppenheimer, suggest the Interior Minister is taking advantage of the current unrest in Israel over the high cost of housing in order to build housing – especially in religious neighbourhoods.

If so, the expansion may undermine the government’s own diplomatic efforts, coming just as Israel has been seeking U.S. assistance in pressing the Palestinian Authority to drop its campaign for statehood recognition at the United Nations.

Just on Wednesday, the day after Washington used the diplomatic stick against Israel, it turned the stick on the Palestinian Authority, pressing its leadership in near-threatening terms not to take their case to the United Nations.

“If the PA goes to the UN in September, it will make it harder for us to have the same relations with them as we had before, when it comes to aid and security training,” a U.S. diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told journalists Wednesday.

But Thursday’s announcement, along with another statement that a further 2,700 settlement units soon would be approved, may make Washington rethink its approach.
King James Bible -- Matthew 23:3

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
 
Last edited:

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
America allows israel to be like this. cut diplomatic ties, let them stand alone with no aid, pull back all investment, support UN sanctions against israel and see what happens.

of course, this will never happen. most americans i imagine wouldn't give a crap, but ones giving money to politicians would = will never happen
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.


selling retracted in Post #38

It was land that Jordan and the Palestinians lost in battle to Israel in '67.
 
Last edited:

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
It may never happen, but come September and the UN debate to declare a Palestinian State, its just possible that Obama might forget to use its veto in the security council
and abstain instead. Netanyuhu has been beating his chest thinking that he outsmarted Obama, and this would re establish the relative relationship.

But these new housing units really screw the pooch, my guess is that the world must insist on a retroactive settlement freeze or just force Palestinian assimilation into Israel will full voting rights.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
Netanyuhu has been beating his chest thinking that he outsmarted Obama, and this would re establish the relative relationship.

But these new housing units really screw the pooch, my guess is that the world must insist on a retroactive settlement freeze or just force Palestinian assimilation into Israel will full voting rights.

I am still amazed at how you just can't stomach the idea that Israel does NOT care, worry or consider what the world wants.

They will do whatever they want.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I am still amazed at how you just can't stomach the idea that Israel does NOT care, worry or consider what the world wants.

They will do whatever they want.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell that to the Now dead Hitler and Tojo. Israel may have a fairly formidable military, but its still only a big fish in a small pond. When the larger world gets more demanding regarding Israel, all it takes is an economic embargo and Israel will start caring very deeply.

Israel has sadly learned that if they ignore the normal rules and take what they want, they get away with it time after time. Exactly what happened to Hitler and Tojo, they both tried take what they want one too many times, and suddenly they were in deep doo doo. As they lost not only all their ill gotten gains, they lost almost everything.

History is littered with States like Israel that no longer exists, they reveled in greed and aggression for a while, then they over reached, and got dope slapped.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell that to the Now dead Hitler and Tojo. Israel may have a fairly formidable military, but its still only a big fish in a small pond. When the larger world gets more demanding regarding Israel, all it takes is an economic embargo and Israel will start caring very deeply.

Israel has sadly learned that if they ignore the normal rules and take what they want, they get away with it time after time. Exactly what happened to Hitler and Tojo, they both tried take what they want one too many times, and suddenly they were in deep doo doo. As they lost not only all their ill gotten gains, they lost almost everything.

History is littered with States like Israel that no longer exists, they reveled in greed and aggression for a while, then they over reached, and got dope slapped.

Godwin's Law!

Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. You're being ridiculous.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.

That doesn't make the land Israel. Just makes it Jewish owned land in Palestine.
Israel should not be approving settlements there.
 

zoiks

Lifer
Jan 13, 2000
11,787
3
81
They are not and have never been serious about peace. They're simply hoping that this will fuel Palestinian anger and in the end they'll bomb/bulldoze peoples houses. I'm surprised how much Israeli bullshit this world can tolerate.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,859
4,835
136
This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.

LOL....
Yet another brainwashed ziozombi spreading the usual zionist
propaganda.

And you did ban an anti zionist guy yesterday , under the pretense
of anti semitic behaviour ??...

This forum is a zionist occuped territory , and kind a joke given
that such peoples are "moderators"....


http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_zionists_land.php
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please do tell outright distortions EK, all this is new settlement within the disputed lands only occupied by Israel in a military occupation after the 1967 and 73 wars. Not a single country on earth recognizes any Israeli ownership of disputed lands and the UN charter is predicated on doctrine that land by military conquest is illegitimate.

As for Berlin, its a bad comparison, because the city was subdivided into various zones, even before the official end of WW2, and before the creation of the UN. The legitimacy of
Israel was based on UN recognition of Israeli as a State in 3/1948. And what the UN givith, they can take away.

Because if Israel kills any hope of a negotiated settlement by continually settling on land they do not own, the other option of binding third party arbitration becomes more probable.

But this has been covered all before on these forums as Israel keeps skating on ever thinner ice.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
How come you aren't making threads about Syria??

13 more killed today and yet you are bitching about housing?

Just come out and admit that you hate Jews and get it over with.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Godwin's Law!

Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. You're being ridiculous.

You're right, they are more like our own nation was back in the 19th century when we stole all the Native Americans land. I wonder if in a hundred or so years the Israelis will allow the PA's to build a bunch of Casinos to try and make up for it.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
How come you aren't making threads about Syria??

13 more killed today and yet you are bitching about housing?

Just come out and admit that you hate Jews and get it over with.
Syria sucks but we have absolutely no pull with them, in addition we aren't propping up their military with American Taxpayers money so we have no sway over them.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
MotF Bane says, "Godwin's Law!

Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. You're being ridiculous."

To start out MB, you start out with the assumption that there is any legitimacy to Godwins Law.

Then you fail to see the Israeli pattern of over reaching is exactly like the patterns established by Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Point granted the latter two States were far bigger states already operating on the international stage, and Israel has only a pathetically small number of citizens, way under 7 million Jews, that is only a regional power and unable to project much force beyond its borders.

But if you don't want to talk about Hitler, we can talk about South Africa, another Apartheid country whose politics are already history. Or we can talk about Israel losings its international standing and all allies at an accelerating rate in the past decade. Or we can talk about the current Israel Masada doctrine, Masada one did not work out well, as Israeli finally got on the last Roman nerve, as Israel as a nation vanished as Jewish state for the next 1800 years. Now we can ask what is the future as Israel has yet to celebrate its 64'th birthday. 64 years in world events is not very long, and if the current leadership of Israel does not wise up, it hard to conceive of Israel lasting much longer without getting badly dope slapped as only extremists now control the Israeli government.

Yet in terms of reasons for hope, there is a large minority within Israel itself that are moderate and reasonable. And IMHO, if they take over, Israel can finally gain co-operation and acceptance by the Arab world as a new and better mid-east is can be built atop of the old. All the pieces are now falling into place, as new thinking is finally gaining hold in the entire region.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
MotF Bane says, "Godwin's Law!

Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. You're being ridiculous."

To start out MB, you start out with the assumption that there is any legitimacy to Godwins Law.

Then you fail to see the Israeli pattern of over reaching is exactly like the patterns established by Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Point granted the latter two States were far bigger states already operating on the international stage, and Israel has only a pathetically small number of citizens, way under 7 million Jews, that is only a regional power and unable to project much force beyond its borders.

But if you don't want to talk about Hitler, we can talk about South Africa, another Apartheid country whose politics are already history. Or we can talk about Israel losings its international standing and all allies at an accelerating rate in the past decade. Or we can talk about the current Israel Masada doctrine, Masada one did not work out well, as Israeli finally got on the last Roman nerve, as Israel as a nation vanished as Jewish state for the next 1800 years. Now we can ask what is the future as Israel has yet to celebrate its 64'th birthday. 64 years in world events is not very long, and if the current leadership of Israel does not wise up, it hard to conceive of Israel lasting much longer without getting badly dope slapped as only extremists now control the Israeli government.

Yet in terms of reasons for hope, there is a large minority within Israel itself that are moderate and reasonable. And IMHO, if they take over, Israel can finally gain co-operation and acceptance by the Arab world as a new and better mid-east is can be built atop of the old. All the pieces are now falling into place, as new thinking is finally gaining hold in the entire region.
Too bad the PA's are even bigger assholes than the Israelis
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Yes we can talk about Syria, and while we are at it we can talk about Libya. Two different dictators rule and have for many decades, and IMHO, those governments have to go too.

The USA is already part of a military coalition bent on removing Kaddafi, but rebel leadership is proving equally repugnant. The Arab League has yet to ask for help in removing Assad, but I suspect that will be forthcoming. Meanwhile the job of removing Assad may eventually fall on Turkey, who is already active on the diplomatic front. Mubarak is already gone, and on trial and the Yemeni dictator may never get back into Yemen or ever regain power.
 
Last edited:

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Red Dawn makes a statement, namely, "Too bad the PA's are even bigger assholes than the Israelis.", that I can only partially agree with.

The point is that the Fatah party dedicated to non-violence has compiled a excellent record, while the Hamas political party is more dedicated to violence. And as both political parties now both try to reunify, some Hamas hold outs prevent the larger PA from speaking with a unified voice.

But where I disagree with Red Dawn is over the issue of political parties. Israel also has political parties, and Israel too must put together a coalition government. And quite frankly and IMHO, many Israeli parties are total extremists rat finks and pigs that make Hamas almost look good in comparison. But with future Israeli and Palestinian elections inevitable in the future, no political party can be assured of continual support. Because if their voters don't want them retained, they will have no future power.

Give Israeli voters a better hope in a peace process and Likid will be gone, give Palestinian voters a hope in a real peace process, and Hamas support will drop like a stone.

America and almost all other nations are also littered political parties that are now only a footnote in a history book. We can take H.Ross Perot's American party that lasted about four years, or the old no nothing party, or even the tea party creatures that too hopefully will be soon nothing but a distant nightmare.

In short a political party is not a permanent government. For the Israelis or Palestinians.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.

I suspect an AnandTech moderator would have the integrity to back up his/her claim with links.

Are you lowering yourself and Israel "democratic" society to the Communist Soviet level during the Cold War?

Area C feels the effects of Israel's power -- The Australian

ONLY 5km separates the offices of two mayors on one of the planet's most contested pieces of land, but they may as well be at opposite ends of the earth.

Next month, the 193 countries of the UN are set to vote on a Palestinian state. Any decision will not be binding on Israel but any pressure point that does arise will be here, in the heart of the West Bank's "Area C", which is deemed under the Oslo accords to be under full Israeli control.

This week, the Israelis authorised 1600 new apartments in east Jerusalem settlements and flagged the approval of 2700 more, damaging hopes of kick-starting the peace process.

David Elhaiini is a Jewish settler who is Mayor of the Jordan Valley Regional Council, which covers 21 settlements. Unlike many settlers, who say the Bible gives them the right to live in "Judea and Samaria", Mr Elhaiini argues security.

"The only thing someone in Australia or other countries will understand is security," he tells The Weekend Australian. He says having settlements and army in the Jordan Valley protects Israel.

"Nobody can destroy a country without going in by tanks."

Area C amounts to 60 per cent of the West Bank. Israel has complete power over which Palestinian homes will be built or demolished in the area.

Far more Palestinian homes are demolished than approved. Asked what he thinks about the demolitions, Elhaiini replies: "I believe in law."

The international community argues that Israel's settlements are illegal. Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: "The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Israel insists the settlements are legal. To counter criticism that the building was on private Palestinian land, Israel's Defence Ministry commissioned an audit of settlements. The audit and its database were presented to Defence Minister Ehud Barak, who read it and then ordered it not be made public. It concluded that in the majority of settlements, Israel was breaking its own laws.

You just can't bring a poster's mod status into the discussion. You should know this by now.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator: