Zionism, the path to peace.

[kylebisme]

They bought it to their government after it did illegally seize it
as an israeli property..

I doubt The Foundation for Middle East Peace would misrepresent their statics like that, and rather figure that 75% is part of the small fraction of the West Bank which was sold to Israelis by private Palestinian land owners. Granted, a Palestinian selling his land to an Israeli doesn't make that land change from Palestinian to Israeli territory, just like an American selling his land to an Canadian doesn't change the nationality of that territory.

 

[Abwx]

I doubt The Foundation for Middle East Peace would misrepresent their statics like that, and rather figure that 75% is part of the small fraction of the West Bank which was sold to Israelis by private Palestinian land owners. Granted, a Palestinian selling his land to an Israeli doesn't make that land change from Palestinian to Israeli territory, just like an American selling his land to an Canadian doesn't change the nationality of that territory.

That remain to be seen, but anyway, expropriating israelis
is a cover , as not only israeli owned land will indeed be populated
by israelis but also the palestinians s expropriated land..

 

[kylebisme]

Abwx, I'm at a loss as to make sense of your comment, and what is up with the line breaks?

So I gather you have no problem with Israel building in Har Homa since 80% of it was owned by Israelis?

You and your source were saying ~75%, how have you got the figure up to 80%? Regardless, I don't have a problem with any individuals building on land they own anywhere in the world, as long as they comply with the local zoning building regulations; Israelis in Har Homa or otherwise. However, if you are suggesting that Israelis owning even 80% of Har Homa, or 100%, gives the state of Israel right any to that land, let alone all of it; I do have a problem with that.

 

[Woofmeister]

You are dense..
Prior to 1967 , this part of Jerusalem was Jordan s soil.
The israeli gov. did seize it , sold it to israelis citizens
and is now expropriating these israelis from this
illegally annexed land...

Need further explanations ??...Really, these zio medics are efficients...

Wow, so much fail in one paragraph. (1) Prior to 1948, Jerusalem was within the British Mandate--that's when one third of the land of Har Homa was purchased by Jews--from Arabs. (2) From 1948-67 Jordan occupied some areas in the eastern section of Jerusalem but never had any territorial claims recognized. After Israel captured Eastern Jerusalem in 1967, it claimed sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, but it did not take land and then resell it to Israelis. (3) Regardless of claims of Israeli sovereignty, the Arabs of East Jerusalem continued to own the land unless they sold it, that's how the rest of the 80% of Har Homa that was owned by Israelis was acquired.

 

[kylebisme]

(1) Prior to 1948, Jerusalem was within the British Mandate--that's when one third of the land of Har Homa was purchased by Jews--from Arabs.

True, and about 6% of Palestine as a whole.

2) From 1948-67 Jordan occupied some areas in the eastern section of Jerusalem but never had any territorial claims recognized. After Israel captured Eastern Jerusalem in 1967, it claimed sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, but it did not take land and then resell it to Israelis.

Jordan occupied all of East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank, but they never had any right to sovereignty over any of it, and the same goes for Israel now.

(3) Regardless of claims of Israeli sovereignty, the Arabs of East Jerusalem continued to own the land unless they sold it, that's how the rest of the 80% of Har Homa that was owned by Israelis was acquired.

Even ignoring your unexplained bumping of the figure up from 75% to 80%, your claim that "Arabs of East Jerusalem continued to own the land unless they sold it" is proven false by your own admission that Israelis legally purchased less than 100% of Har Homa. And Har Homa is a rare case, as only a tiny sliver of the settlements are built on Jewish owned land:

 

[Abwx]

and what is up with the line breaks?

This has already been reported to me , and i m still wondering.
My sentences are written with about twelve words per line.
This text has exactly three lines as i did wrote it.

 

[kylebisme]

The question is; why are you starting a new line after about twelve words or whatever, regardless of whether it is the end of a sentence or not?

 

[Abwx]

The question is; why are you starting a new line after about twelve words or whatever, regardless of whether it is the end of a sentence or not?

Perhaps an unexpected remnant of my musical practices...
Imagine that almost all thoses blues are twelve bars long...

 

[kylebisme]

Huh, well it makes some of your posts unnecessarily hard to comprehend, and breaks the flow of the discussion.

 

[iGas]

I'm glad that everyone here is so concerned with Palestinian property rights. What about Israeli property rights?

Israelis own approximately 75 percent (1,300 dunams) of the land of har-homa, one-third of which was purchased before 1948. The remainder was purchased after 1967.

Source

By what right do Palestinians get to prevent Jews from building on land they lawfully purchased and own?

Did you know that it was illegal for foreigner to buy land in Palestine prior to 1948, and the Jews & American Jews illegally sent money & people against the British rule as well as the US law (see: Truman library).

And, you forgot to mention the part: "Compensation offered to affected landowners: Up to $45,000 per dunam, according to the zoning of the affected property. Compensation for Palestinian landowners is expected to be significantly lower."

Now can you see why there is a dispute on the matter?

IMHO, there wouldn't be a dispute if the Jews treated/deal with the Palestine equally and fairly.

 

[Abwx]

Huh, well it makes some of your posts unnecessarily hard to comprehend, and breaks the flow of the discussion.

Matters that are questionned in theses threads are quite complexe
and long sentences will inevitably contain many meanings and
concepts that a carefull reader will often spot as contradictory
and thus as a develloppement that diverge from logical patterns
at some point of the discussion.

As an indication,the usuals pro zionists that are hanging by there often build logical card houses with reasonning that contain countless paradoxes ,wich is quite logical since they unrelentlessly try to present the innacceptable as acceptable providing that the offender is the zionist regime.

 

[Sinsear]

If Israel just wiped the Palestine off the map the world would be a better place. But then again, to do that they would have to lower themselves to the level of Palestinians, and no one wants to be that low.

 

[iGas]

If Israel just wiped the Palestine off the map the world would be a better place. But then again, to do that they would have to lower themselves to the level of Palestinians, and no one wants to be that low.

If the Israelis go any lower it would be at the same level as Nazi Germany & Stalin.

Just look at the statistic as to Jew settler death vs. Israeli Arab death since the inception of Israel.

 

[Abwx]

If Israel just wiped the Palestine off the map the world would be a better place. But then again, to do that they would have to lower themselves to the level of Palestinians, and no one wants to be that low.

Yet another ziozombified that fool himself thinking his confused half brain
is producing subtle sentences..

"Give a monkey a brain and he ll swear he s the center
of the universe"....

http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Brain-Swear-Center-Universe/dp/B0000028PD

 

[Nebor]

You should give the zionists a little part of the US , your country is also big.
Why giving them a land that is not yours..??...

We did, it's called New York City.

 

[Abwx]

We did, it's called New York City.

Jew York City is only about one mile square, around Wall Street mainly....

 

[mrSHEiK124]

This is land that was sold by Arabs/Palestinians and purchased by the Jews.
No one has tried to point out that it was confiscated.
Why should Israel not be allowed to build? Zoning regulations?


Yet no one complained about all the housing units that the Soviets built in Berlin after they took control of that city.


selling retracted in Post #38

It was land that Jordan and the Palestinians lost in battle to Israel in '67.

My entire extended family [nearly half the entire population, 400, of a village northwest of Jerusalem] were booted from their homes in 1948. Several more of them were booted out of their homes in refugee camps in 1967. The elders in my family died cursing people like you - and trying to make something of nothing [instead of usurping farmers and...well, simpletons] - this is why I am here now, and am oddly grateful for their perseverance. My grandfather recently passed away, without ever having the opportunity to return to his groves, his farm, or his ancestral village - I can trace my lineage there to 200+ years ago. What gave a bunch of Europeans the right to call it home?

The fact that that land was purchased, does not negate 60+ years of bullshit. It does not negate the fact that I am treated as a threat to national security in my ancestral homeland, and am barred entry to one of the holiest places to me [tolerance my TUKHUS]. And it does not negate the pointless, absurd strawman, ad hominem, and generally retarded arguments presented by Zionists.

Wake. Up.

 

[badb0y]

If Israel just wiped the Palestine off the map the world would be a better place. But then again, to do that they would have to lower themselves to the level of Palestinians, and no one wants to be that low.

You can say the same thing about Israel. As soon as we stop cock riding them or they stop cock riding us (really, I can't tell who's the man of this relationship anymore)we can actually move forward to a peaceful solution. Until the moderators(us) stop favoring Israel and giving them a break every time they fuck up no one in the region will trust/like us and terrorism will THRIVE.

 

[EagleKeeper]

My entire extended family [nearly half the entire population, 400, of a village northwest of Jerusalem] were booted from their homes in 1948. Several more of them were booted out of their homes in refugee camps in 1967. The elders in my family died cursing people like you - and trying to make something of nothing [instead of usurping farmers and...well, simpletons] - this is why I am here now, and am oddly grateful for their perseverance. My grandfather recently passed away, without ever having the opportunity to return to his groves, his farm, or his ancestral village - I can trace my lineage there to 200+ years ago. What gave a bunch of Europeans the right to call it home?

The fact that that land was purchased, does not negate 60+ years of bullshit. It does not negate the fact that I am treated as a threat to national security in my ancestral homeland, and am barred entry to one of the holiest places to me [tolerance my TUKHUS]. And it does not negate the pointless, absurd strawman, ad hominem, and generally retarded arguments presented by Zionists.

Wake. Up.

The problem is that the Arabs and Palestinians have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of Israel. Until that threat stops being waved in their face; they are going to act the way the opposition is.

You yourself may not be; however, there are plenty of Palestinians that choose to act as such. It is an endless cycle with the Palestinians being used as an ego pawn by the other Arab states.

 

[Abwx]

The problem is that the Arabs and Palestinians have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of Israel. Until that threat stops being waved in their face; they are going to act the way the opposition is.

You yourself may not be; however, there are plenty of Palestinians that choose to act as such. It is an endless cycle with the Palestinians being used as an ego pawn by the other Arab states.

Here we are ...
A zio brainwashed zombi explaining that the palestinians
should not be a threat to the regime that did stole their houses
and forced them to be homeless as well as countryless..

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Here we are ...
A zio brainwashed zombi explaining that the palestinians
should not be a threat to the regime that did stole their houses
and forced them to be homeless as well as countryless..

I wouldn't have put it the way you did. But this.

My village was taken from me. I am supposed to be afraid of Israel - NOT VICE VERSA. Logic & reason are not at play here.

EDIT before ridiculous argument #543: I don't care that you were there 2 or 3 thousand years ago, whoever you are, wherever you are. My grandfather/grandmother, and my oldest aunts/uncles, remember "home."

EDIT before ridiculous argument #421: I am not a Holocaust denier. I am not God - but Hitler is probably headed where I don't want to go after this world. That doesn't mean that a bunch of farmers & villagers [the MAJORITY of displaced refugees] should have had to pay for what he did. And it only boils our blood to hear toolsheds [not tools, not toolboxes, not toolsheds even, think more along the lines of Home Depot or Lowe's] like Netanyahu and Lieberman insist that 1. Arabs are an existential threat to Israel - when Israel was the first existential threat presented to simple folk - and 2. That the refugee's right of return is not to be discussed - when the foreign Jew's innate right to "emigrate" is heralded in their f***ing "beacon of tolerance" in the Middle East.

Oy ve avoy.

Supporters of Israel read from a script - whether they know it or not. That came from my heart.

 

[Lemon law]

To better translate the EK quote as he said, "The problem is that the Arabs and Palestinians have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of Israel. Until that threat stops being waved in their face; they are going to act the way the opposition is."

Would go more like this, the problem is that the police and honest law abiding citizens have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of thieves, crooks, and bank robbers. Until that threat to thieves, crooks, and bank robbers stop
being waved in their face, Israel will use armed resistance and continual force to retain their illegitimate gains.

Imagine the damn nerve of law abiding citizens and police, that they would question the religious rights of crooks, thieves, and bank robbers to practice their profession.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The problem is that the Arabs and Palestinians have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of Israel. Until that threat stops being waved in their face; they are going to act the way the opposition is.

You yourself may not be; however, there are plenty of Palestinians that choose to act as such. It is an endless cycle with the Palestinians being used as an ego pawn by the other Arab states.

Here we are ...
A zio brainwashed zombi explaining that the palestinians
should not be a threat to the regime that did stole their houses
and forced them to be homeless as well as countryless..

How far back into history do you want to go?

They never had a country - the ARABS did not want them to have it.
For the next 60 years; they never wanted a country as long as the Arabs said that there was a chance to wipe out Israel and get everything.

Them being homeless is due to poor choices. Yet many feel that they should be rewarded for such.

They are rejected by most Arab countries; note how Egypt created the Gaza and enforced it.
They have multiple times been offered a chance to straighten up their act and refuse to.

 

[EagleKeeper]

To better translate the EK quote as he said, "The problem is that the Arabs and Palestinians have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of Israel. Until that threat stops being waved in their face; they are going to act the way the opposition is."

Would go more like this, the problem is that the police and honest law abiding citizens have continued to demonstrate that they are a threat to the security of thieves, crooks, and bank robbers. Until that threat to thieves, crooks, and bank robbers stop
being waved in their face, Israel will use armed resistance and continual force to retain their illegitimate gains.

Imagine the damn nerve of law abiding citizens and police, that they would question the religious rights of crooks, thieves, and bank robbers to practice their profession.

Finding excuses for them does not solve their problem. It just makes it worse.
That is how they got to this point in the first place; no one was willing to make them face up to making a choice for their future.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

How far back into history do you want to go?

They never had a country - the ARABS did not want them to have it.
For the next 60 years; they never wanted a country as long as the Arabs said that there was a chance to wipe out Israel and get everything.

Them being homeless is due to poor choices. Yet many feel that they should be rewarded for such.

They are rejected by most Arab countries; note how Egypt created the Gaza and enforced it.
They have multiple times been offered a chance to straighten up their act and refuse to.

Having a country is now the criteria for the application of human rights? Don't blame Palestinians for the choices of stupid - puppeteered Arab governments (how are they doing these days? not so well). Explain the disgusting wall I can see from our temporary "home" back home. Explain the eradication of all the natural resources in the West Bank (Tiberias, the Jordan River, diverted to the f***ing Negev, to grow things in the desert for crazy kibbutzim). Explain the "manifest destiny" dictating that Zion be colonized from the river to the sea - read the charters of Israeli political parties [hint: they look like Hamas' - not that I like them any better!]. It is quite blatant hypocrisy when it is OK for one group to behave in a certain manner, but another is considered criminal, because they aren't "chosen."

My family is not homeless. Accountants. Teachers. Carpenters. They learned trades. And made lives. Without usurping those of others. :thumbsdown:

You sound like Hitler, them vs. us attitude.