Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[Thunder 57]

Depends on the use case / workload. Now stop the threadcrapping.

You mentioned it's bad for gaming. You conveniently ignored the post where I showed the difference was not noticeable. What other workloads to you think lack of SMT is good for? Will we have to keep hearing this until NVL comes out? Hell, even Intel said "Oops".

We found the Missing Performance: Zen 5 Tested with SMT Disabled

Reviews of AMD’s Zen 5 processors this week surprised many, with lower-than-expected results. After some investigation, we discovered that turning off Simultaneous Multithreading (SMT) can yield notable performance gains, particularly in gaming. This article presents our findings, including...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Fjodor2001]

You mentioned it's bad for gaming. You conveniently ignored the post where I showed the difference was not noticeable.

For gaming it wasn’t only SMT on/off on Zen I was comparing to, but e.g. NVL E cores.

I.e. if using 24T on a 12C/24T Zen6, will the perf/thread be higher or lower than a thread having it’s own dedicated NVL E core (or even P core). Because the corresponding NVL-S CPU will have those 24T executing on 8P+16E.

The above also applies for other workloads than gaming BTW.

 

[adroc_thurston]

In high MT applications, it's about power efficiency, not clock speed since you are almost always power bound in these applications

That's the same thing.

 

[Chicken76]

That CCD goes into like a whole pile of products so sourcing fast and leaky 8c bins is trivial.

Will we see 10c bins or is it just not worth it? Is it going to be a full-working-die bin and every die with 8-11 cores working thrown into the 8c bin?

 

[inquiss]

Will we see 10c bins or is it just not worth it? Is it going to be a full-working-die bin and every die with 8-11 cores working thrown into the 8c bin?

There are lots of binning options. I mean, that's about all there is to know right?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Will we see 10c bins or is it just not worth it? Is it going to be a full-working-die bin and every die with 8-11 cores working thrown into the 8c bin?

Gonna be mostly 8c's since you need to hit 1t parametrics across buncha cores at the lowest cost possible.
AMD product people are very-very smart. Keep that in mind.

 

[Thibsie]

Gonna be mostly 8c's since you need to hit 1t parametrics across buncha cores at the lowest cost possible.
AMD product people are very-very smart. Keep that in mind.

So I guess Ryzen 5 will move to 8 cores which would be logical (and wished for) IMO

 

[adroc_thurston]

So I guess Ryzen 5 will move to 8 cores which would be logical (and wished for) IMO

Lmao

 

[511]

It's a net win in any nT.

If you can use the P+E combo than no else Yes

 

[511]

Lmao

Why not lol 12C chips can do 8 Core easily

 

[Fjodor2001]

So I guess Ryzen 5 will move to 8 cores which would be logical (and wished for) IMO

Yupp, 8C will be the Ryzen 5 Zen6 peasant SKU. Then 12-24C SKUs in the rest of the range.

 

[adroc_thurston]

If you can use the P+E combo than no else Yes

Uh, no.
SMT is just a really nice way of doing it.

Why not lol 12C chips can do 8 Core easily

It can be Ryzen 5 at a paltry $399 then.

Yupp, 8C will be the Ryzen 5 peasant SKU. Then 12-24C SKUs in the rest of the range.

ASPs go up, kiddo. They always go up.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It can be Ryzen 5 at a paltry $399 then.

ASPs go up, kiddo. They always go up.

ASP per core does not always go up.

Good that you’ll be able to get your precious 8C bottom-of-the-range SKU at decent price then.

 

[adroc_thurston]

ASP per core does not always go up.

Best case flat.
But since AMD has no comp it goes up and up.

Good that you’ll be able to get your precious 8C bottom-of-the-range SKU at decent price then.

$399 is indeed a fair price for something fast.

 

[Fjodor2001]

$399 is indeed a fair price for something fast.

If you really think the bottom 8C SKU will be $399, then what do you expect the 24C to cost?

 

[adroc_thurston]

If you really think the bottom 8C SKU will be $399, then what do you expect the 24C to cost?

$849 but they're free to price it at whatever.

 

[Fjodor2001]

That would be a substantial 43% price increase for the bottom SKU.

For comparison, Zen5 launch price was this:

Ryzen 9 9950X at $649, Ryzen 9 9900X at $499, Ryzen 7 9700X at $359, and Ryzen 5 9600X at $279

 

[adroc_thurston]

That would be a substantial 43% price increase for the bottom SKU.

Someone gotta pay for all dat N2p.
That someone is (You).

 

[Fjodor2001]

Someone gotta pay for all dat N2p.
That someone is (You).

Nah, if anything I’m more likely to pay the 30% price increase for the top 24C SKU. This is assuming the price will be according to your guesstimates.

But I’ll be comparing it to whatever Intel will have to offer before deciding. There’s just so much that will change with Zen6 and NVL-S compared to the previous generations, and there are so many unknowns, so it’s hard to predict winner at this point for all use cases. Especially if also considering perf/$ since the prices are also unknown.

 

[adroc_thurston]

There’s just so much that will change with Zen6 and NVL-S compared to the previous generations

Nothing that matters much in the DIY context outside of Intel shipping a 2t option at 320W.

so it’s hard to predict winner at this point for all use cases.

The winner is very obvious for obvious reasons.

Especially if also considering perf/$ since the prices are also unknown.

Perf/$ is a poverty excuse.
The market is slobbering on $500 9800X3D's just fine.

 

[Thibsie]

Lmao

Had to try

 

[Fjodor2001]

Nothing that matters much

I’m expecting lots of things to change. Process tech, core counts, iGPU, max TDP, NPU, idle power consumption, max memory speed, caches, bLLC / X3D, clock speeds, PCIe lanes, IPC, AVX10.2, perf/watt, prices, etc. You may not care about all of that, but others do.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Had to try

You gotta pay the winner a proper toll and all.

I’m expecting lots of things to change. Process tech, core counts, iGPU, max TDP, NPU, idle power consumption, max memory speed, caches, bLLC / X3D, clock speeds, PCIe lanes, IPC, AVX10.2, perf/watt, prices, etc. You may not care about all of that, but others do.

Many words but all that matters in DIY DT is 1t and gaming perf.

 

[511]

Many words but all that matters in DIY DT is 1t and gaming perf.

I am waiting for how real is the leaked dynamic binary update cause Intel SW team don't have skill issue unlike the cache team

 

[Fjodor2001]

Many words but all that matters in DIY DT is 1t and gaming perf.

No, depends on the user category. And even what you mentioned is unknown.