Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[CouncilorIrissa]

I can confirm the Zen 3 data, I have an old manual 3.5GHz ST run from my previous 5900X. 3600 CL17 Patriot Viper RAM, XMP settings. 329 ST points/GHz. Very interesting that Zen 4 had more R23 ST IPC increase from previous gen than Zen 5 does. Until now I thought it was the other way around.

I wish we could pin this article, because the thread is going in circles.
Cinebench is scalar SSE/scalar AVX spam, it cares little for vector execution, which is the weak point of Zen 5.

• All formerly 1-cycle latency SIMD instructions now have 2-cycle latency. Applies to all widths - including scalar.

 

[fastandfurious6]

MT freq, max. TDP assumptions as well in order to complete your entry

desktop defaults 200W ~5GHZ no tuning = ~70000

Laptop defaults ~130W 4.5GHZ = ~60000

Laptop ~80W 4GHZ = ~50000

Laptop OC = 70000+ on par with desktop

 

[OneEng2]

So let's see...

16 P core, 32 E cores, and 4 LPE cores for Nova Lake at the top-of-the-stack.

Let's assume 450 for the "IPC" of the P as calculated in my chart and 375 for the E's.
Furthermore let's assume 5GHz for the P cores, 4GHz for the E cores, and 2.5GHz for the LPE "islands."

That would produce a CB R23 MT score of 87,500. "Don't call it a comeback!"

It's not AT ALL a silly set of assumptions.

This is why I have been skeptical that Zen 6 will be besting NVL 52c in CB.

That would be a monstrous MT score that desktop Zen 6 wont be touching without some hefty OC. However, I think that guesstimate could be a bit high unless its pulling 300W+, which, knowing Intel, would not be surprising at all. My guess would still be around 80-83K or so. In any case, this is exactly why I believe 24C Zen 6 will top out around 230-250W. 200W would just be leaving too much perf. on the table for AMD given what Intell will likely be doing.

The skymont cores were pretty low power (~4W / E Core?). Even 32 of them only eats up 128W.

For CB, I think NVL will be unbeatable....... but those mont cores wont amount to a hill of beans in DC were I expect Zen 6 to dominate.

 

[gdansk]

For CB, I think NVL will be unbeatable

Indeed, they've accelerated Cinebench. The question is how much faster in these embarrassingly parallel programs with no memory bottlenecks.

And not to ignore the fun people are having here estimating that ratio but when does it justify the additional area/cost? Look at the 9800X3D vs 285K. The Intel chip is 75-80% faster in CB for not much more money, usually 10%. And yet the 9800X3D has 108 pages of completed builds on PCPartPicker and the 285K 4 pages. bLLC should make that less one-sided but it seems like CB nT - after a certain point - doesn't map to $$$.

 

[Hulk]

That would be a monstrous MT score that desktop Zen 6 wont be touching without some hefty OC. However, I think that guesstimate could be a bit high unless its pulling 300W+, which, knowing Intel, would not be surprising at all. My guess would still be around 80-83K or so. In any case, this is exactly why I believe 24C Zen 6 will top out around 230-250W. 200W would just be leaving too much perf. on the table for AMD given what Intell will likely be doing.

I think you are right. More likely stock clocks might be 4.5/3.5/2, which would result in a score 77,400.

You know why I think this is likely? The Vulcan in me knows this is not a logical reason, but for the past few generations Intel and AMD have been neck-and-neck in this benchmark and I don't expect things to change.

There are so many variables. Intel could have very low IPC increase in this benchmark or clocks could be low without IPC and AMD could have very nice frequency and IPC improvement. Who knows if Intel's top dog will even be 52 core? Change of plans, yield issues, or whatever? On the otherhand I have a feeling Zen 6 is going to come out swinging.

That's why I still believe this battle will be decided with ST performance.

 

[Doug S]

I track CB scores in a spreadsheet

Hey wait just a minute now, I thought people here were supposed to make their arguments on this site based on rumors, gut feelings and vibes, not actual hard data!