Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[fastandfurious6]

If intel PTL won over Halo anywhere, Intel would plaster that everywhere. They didn't.

The graph you quote below is Halo 395, which is literally a 9950X (literally) running on 15W with the fattest iGPU running Cyberpunk... 15W total and still higher than stxpoint.

View attachment 137267

Halo 388 (40CU + 8 cores instead of 16) should have better performance but also handhelds can do 25W+ too


Price wise, Halo 388 (32GB) has higher performance than PTL and should have similar price

 

[poke01]

If intel PTL won over Halo anywhere, Intel would plaster that everywhere. They didn't.

The graph you quote below is Halo 395, which is literally a 9950X (literally) running on 15W with the fattest iGPU running Cyberpunk... 15W total and still higher than stxpoint.



Halo 388 (40CU + 8 cores instead of 16) should have better performance but also handhelds can do 25W+ too


Price wise, Halo 388 (32GB) has higher performance than PTL and should have similar price

cool story bro have fun with zen5 halo till 2028

 

[ToTTenTranz]

If intel PTL won over Halo anywhere, Intel would plaster that everywhere. They didn't.

Handhelds will be using a different SKU called G3, and Intel hasn't shown performance numbers for that.

 

[DrMrLordX]

cool story bro have fun with zen5 halo till 2028

As opposed to what?

 

[poke01]

As opposed to what?

nothing. There is no comp in x86 land because Intel as always is too slow to respond.

That doesn't mean I'm happy with AMD not making a Zen6 mobile Halo anytime before 2028. At least by the end of 2027 Intel will finally release Razor Lake-AX.

 

[adroc_thurston]

At least by the end of 2027 Intel will finally release Razor Lake-AX

Uh, no.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

That doesn't mean I'm happy with AMD not making a Zen6 mobile Halo anytime before 2028.

Medusa AT4/AT3 aren't releasing in early 2027?

 

[ToTTenTranz]

However, for 15-20W handhelds I still expect Panther Lake's G3 series to come out on top of Halo

ThePhawx confirms that Panther Lake H regularly outperforms Strix Halo from 15 to 25W TDP.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2015786803895107776

 

[carrotmania]

Wow, in the super low power segment where Intel were already dominant, and expensive hand held gaming, which is a super niche, Intel is now dominant. That gets them... no market share. Well done Intel!

 

[marees]

Medusa AT4/AT3 aren't releasing in early 2027?

leaked roadmaps had only medusa point-1 in early 2027 & medusa-point 3 (bumblebee) in late 2027

its also a question of when the RDNA 5 drivers would be ready for release & validation, I guess. needs to align with OEM/Board partners' schedule for releasing laptops

 

[Z O X]

Wow, in the super low power segment where Intel were already dominant, and expensive hand held gaming, which is a super niche, Intel is now dominant. That gets them... no market share. Well done Intel!

Why shouldn't we celebrate another player?
At least "expensive" part should get better. Intel is the underdog in this segment ...

 

[ToTTenTranz]

These are all results without upscaling. XeSS 3 vs. FSR3 at ISO IQ would probably increase the advantage to Intel's side.

Wow, in the super low power segment where Intel were already dominant, and expensive hand held gaming, which is a super niche, Intel is now dominant. That gets them... no market share. Well done Intel!

Imagine getting this much worked up because Intel managed to score a clear win.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Why shouldn't we celebrate another player?
At least "expensive" part should get better. Intel is the underdog in this segment ...

Another player in what? There are already handhelds running in the 25W power envelope, and the 388H is a low volume part.

Imagine getting this much worked up because Intel managed to score a clear win.

Yes, Phawx seems to be getting worked up over nothing.

 

[marees]

Another player in what?

my problem is that there is only one player. TSMC for GPUs

 

[fastandfurious6]

View attachment 137349
View attachment 137348
View attachment 137347



These are all results without upscaling. XeSS 3 vs. FSR3 at ISO IQ would probably increase the advantage to Intel's side.






Imagine getting this much worked up because Intel managed to score a clear win.

- Small diff
- Cherrypicks (barely any diff on doom TDA)
- Halo 395 tested runs an entire heavy duty 9950X...
- Halo 388 should run faster leaner at low W

Most important:
- PTL price won't be far from Halo 388
- HALO DOCKED MODE unlocks 65W, cannot compare
- Halo has real full flagship CPU of high-end desktop PC... 9700X / 9950X

 

[ToTTenTranz]

- Small diff

Small difference on a more expensive platform from AMD is a win for Intel.

- Cherrypicks (barely any diff on doom TDA)

Feel free to provide other examples.

- Halo 388 should run faster leaner at low W

Not really. The second CCD on Strix Halo gets into sleep / deep-c state below 20W, so power efficiency between the 395 and the 388 at that power level should be similar.

- PTL price won't be far from Halo 388

Halo's IOD is almost twice as big as PTL-H's 3 chiplets combined, and then it needs the CCD plus twice the memory chips.
I have little doubt the Halo 388 is more expensive to produce than PTL-H.

- Halo has real full flagship CPU of high-end desktop PC... 9700X / 9950X

CPU-wise, Panther Lake will beat Halo's single CCD 388 in MT (which is also beat by the 12-core Strix Point) and should be neck-and-neck in ST.

- HALO DOCKED MODE unlocks 65W, cannot compare

That's the only advantage of Halo, assuming it's implemented in a system that can actually cool down 65W.

 

[luro]

These benchmarks only shows that PTL 388H is a better chip for handhelds than stx Halo. And that was pretty obvious before since stxH is a 55w part.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

These benchmarks only shows that PTL 388H is a better chip for handhelds than stx Halo. And that was pretty obvious before since stxH is a 55w part.

I doubt the 388H is coming to handhelds. Intel is launching the G3 and G3 Extreme for that market.

I don't know what changes Intel will be making for those. It'll probably be priced competitively with the Z2/Z2E, even if there's no more Z-series from AMD anytime soon unless Z3 is based on Halo.

Hopefully Intel isn't making the same grave mistake AMD did with not supporting the graphics driver directly. That would be a massive shot in the foot.

 

[adroc_thurston]

even if there's no more Z-series from AMD anytime soon unless Z3 is based on Halo.

AMD handheld offerings are dead.
Removed from the roadmap (for now).

 

[ToTTenTranz]

AMD handheld offerings are dead.

It'll be both parts ironic and depressing to see AMD falling behind on a rapidly rising market whose hardware they pretty much gave birth to.

 

[adroc_thurston]

It'll be both parts ironic and depressing to see AMD falling behind on a rapidly rising market whose hardware they pretty much gave birth to.

It's not "rapidly rising" at all.
Maybe 2m units total a year.

 

[Det0x]

Guess i can repeat this before launch tomorrow

Something wrong / unoptimized with the setup if a 9850X3D loses to a 9800X3D

Looking at this from a purely overclocking / hwbot lens:

9850X3D is a superbinned 9800X3D, how much better the silicon quality on the CCD is, depend on what sample you are comparing it against.
The very best 9800X3D can probably match it / get close, but there are very few of this caliber out there in the wild.
Average sample vs average sample i would say + ~200-300mhz clockspeed once overclocked
(difference is larger when running stock 5.2ghz vs 5.6ghz like reviewers do)

So the 9850X3D is just a way to get very strong silicon, without binning hundreds of 9800X3D's
IO-die quality (IMC/FCLK) is still all random, so no guarantee there.

If your average user already own a 9800X3D it makes very little sense to buy a 9850X3D
These new cpus are for overclockers or ppl that are building new systems.

If your average user already own a 9800X3D it makes very little sense to buy a 9850X3D
These new cpus are for overclockers or ppl that are building new systems.

 

[Trovaricon]

It's not "rapidly rising" at all.
Maybe 2m units total a year.

and... creating 3 slides a year and 2 pages on amd.com where you just copy paste spec of some anyway for notebook delivered SKU just to signal that you are "committed to handheld gaming" is not worth it?
12CU/8C Zen4 "Phoenix (Hawk) Point" aka 7840U / 8840U / AI 250 / Z1 Extreme / Z2 - it takes elementary school student for naming and high schooler to reconfigure power delivery priority for CPU vs GPU (if its more complex then its failure of the design). Z SKUs are being sold to the same OEMs as their non "handheld" versions of the same chips - small shops don't ship "Z" Ryzens but notebook SKUs...

random rant: High schoolers used to be able to pencil or wire-mod their hardware not "hundred years ago..."

Consumer view - "upgrading" the the kids gaming machine / HTPC this Christmas:
Specifically Zen 4 handhelds could be had for a lower price vs. the same specs mini-pc... (e.g. Legion GO / Legion GO S with Z1E, not Z2 Go and 16GB/512GB was available for a little over 500€, 750 for 32G/1TB - the 32GB DDR5 from the same shops was already ~400 for bottom of the barrel spec DIMMs). So might as well instead of 20*20*5cm brick buy this "curvy" one with UPS (battery), controller and display attached for "free" - and shove it on the shelf under TV.

to be on topic (Z5), Strix Point Zen5 based Z2 Extreme - Asus RoG Xbox Ally X was (still is) for a bit over 900€
I do believe there is a market for these - even if you shelve them under the TV or use as mini desktop - as you would Mac mini 16GB which is very tempting if you like Mac ecosystem.

I don't care about product line margins, its effect on stock price or other business excuses point of view.
I am consumer, I want maximum performance, quality, service for minimum cost. Multi-billion dollar companies brainwashing consumer that "the more you buy the more you save" is some Idiocracy (2006) level argumentation.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's not "rapidly rising" at all.
Maybe 2m units total a year.

30% a year is rapidly rising.
It was 2.3M in 2025, projected ~3M in 2026 and 3.9M in 2027. At an average ~$800 per unit, it's a sizeable sub-market within the gaming PC ecosystem (same games, same peripherals, etc.).

 

[marees]

30% a year is rapidly rising.
It was 2.3M in 2025, projected ~3M in 2026 and 3.9M in 2027. At an average ~$800 per unit, it's a sizeable sub-market within the gaming PC ecosystem (same games, same peripherals, etc.).

it will be huge. in 3 to 4 years time a major chunk compared to first party xbox sales