Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[gdansk]

Reality of gaming on ARM is that 90% of gaming market already is on ARM devices. Mobile gaming vastly outperforms desktop, and console markets.

How much of it is iOS and therefore irrelevant to the discussion of Android vs WoA?

In any case these will not be too relevant to Zen 5 outside of the handheld niche.

 

[Glo.]

How much of it is iOS and therefore irrelevant to the discussion of Android vs WoA?

In any case these will not be too relevant to Zen 5 outside of the handheld niche.

Very much since a lot of mobile gaming is in Asia and Android is still main platform there.

Its relevant because on mainstream market, x86 appears to be dying platform, that has very little advantage over other solutions. "If you want to cross the river, you do not need a battleship for that".

 

[Win2012R2]

Mobile gaming vastly outperforms desktop, and console markets

Very different games and thus game market.

Try selling a $100 special edition game on mobiles, if mobile market games ever dominate desktop or consoles then it will be the end of gaming industry as it is known.

 

[dacostafilipe]

x86 appears to be dying platform

I'm kinda certain that 99.9% of games are created on x86 hardware ... even those for ARM ...

 

[Schmide]

Very much since a lot of mobile gaming is in Asia and Android is still main platform there.

Its relevant because on mainstream market, x86 appears to be dying platform, that has very little advantage over other solutions. "If you want to cross the river, you do not need a battleship for that".

I'm not looking it up, but in statistics and probability you typically want to know the value of the game. Just because a low value product can sell a lot doesn't mean it will outpace a high value product. Perceived value means a lot in economies of scale. (Veblen would be a good start to understanding where you're going wrong)

 

[adroc_thurston]

Very much since a lot of mobile gaming is in Asia and Android is still main platform there.

casinos aren't gaming.

Very different games and thus game market.

they're not games. casinos.

 

[Glo.]

It doesn't matter, what we consider what games are, or not.

Its about how much money they are generating.

Mobile market is far profitable than desktop and laptop. And if you know companies - follow the money.

You believe you cannot sell a game for 100$ on mobile? Sure. But you can sell 150$ skin for the gun in Valorant Mobile. You can sell 180$ hero skin in League of Legends Wild Rift.

I know why you guys resist this idea. We are nerds of gaming. People who pay full price for games at the release.

The reality however is that 80% of top 25 games on twitch are free to play games. And MOBILE games are growing in popularity on twitch. Not there yet, but they are growing(Honkai: SR, Genshin, yesterday were in top 30 most watched gaming streams). Not mention: Fortnite, PUBG BGS, which already had mobile ports for years.

 

[Thunder 57]

casinos aren't gaming.

they're not games. casinos.

That's a smartass comment but I like it!

 

[adroc_thurston]

It doesn't matter, what we consider what games are, or not.

Its about how much money they are generating.

Mobile market is far profitable than desktop and laptop. And if you know companies - follow the money

A casino is more profitable than an art museum but it's still a casino.

That's a smartass comment but I like it!

But it's true. Everything on mobile besides 3.5 big boy PC game ports is gacha now.

 

[Markfw]

A casino is more profitable than an art museum but it's still a casino.

But it's true. Everything on mobile besides 3.5 big boy PC game ports is gacha now.

and that because phone games that are casinos, are free to download, but they bring in a ton of cash !! Probably leaves laptops to waste (no numbers, just a feeling)

But I think we are getting off-topic here... Sorry I contributed to it.

 

[fastandfurious6]

These fantasies that non-portable computers will eventually be replaced by portable ones are complete nonsense.
– Ergonomics,
– potential computing capacity,
– economics
of portable computers are drastically inferior to non-portable ones.

you make a very theoretical exercise which doesn't stand the test of practical reality

7945hx is way too fast for anything you throw at it. if you want a beast workstation get threadripper or EPYC

 

[fastandfurious6]

You call them "excellent" at both roles, but anything with a 7945HX gets like 3-4 hours battery life tops. That's not what I'd call "excellent" as a laptop, that's what I'd call "absolutely dog-water".

7840HS laptops are different, but those can't be considered "desktop replacements" anyway. I can see a genuine mass-market usecase for these, because they don't compromise on battery life, remain reasonably portable and provide good performance on the go. But they don't match up to a full desktop in CPU performance whatsoever.

If I wanted something that was actually desktop class, I'd only consider something with Strix Halo or M4 Pro/Max (although I'd rule out the latter personally because I hate MacOS). Eventually more manufacturers are going to launch similar kinds of products, but for now those are the only two options I would consider.

7945HX with 3-4 hours battery is a miracle TBH

Halo is better in every regard indeed, a goddamn tablet running 9950x in super efficient mode

The existence of Halo 100% supports the argument I'm trying to make

Why buy a desktop? Just get Halo or Fire range

IF ONLY AMD had a super close collaboration with an OEM to produce a real macbook killer!

Maybe we see that in next gen Medusa

🙏 Pray to Lisa Su 🙏

 

[yottabit]

7945HX with 3-4 hours battery is a miracle TBH

Halo is better in every regard indeed, a goddamn tablet running 9950x in super efficient mode

The existence of Halo 100% supports the argument I'm trying to make

Why buy a desktop? Just get Halo or Fire range

IF ONLY AMD had a super close collaboration with an OEM to produce a real macbook killer!

Maybe we see that in next gen Medusa

🙏 Pray to Lisa Su 🙏

They could really benefit I think from some initiative like what Intel did with the “Ultrabook” standard

Maybe updated for the times, “Ryzen AI Pro Max Copilot+ Hyperbook” ?

 

[StefanR5R]

practical reality

Apropos practical reality. You must have missed at least two thirds of my post, if not more. I direct your attention to just the topmost of the several parts of my post:
Even if we restrict ourselves to a PC with the power and performance level of the 7945HX (and which GPU?), your portable computer is a *lot* louder than a decently built stationary computer. Furthermore, keyboard and screen of your portable computer are bolted onto each other and are therefore by definition not ergonomic. Unhealthy in prolonged use.

 

[Doug S]

Reality of gaming on ARM is that 90% of gaming market already is on ARM devices. Mobile gaming vastly outperforms desktop, and console markets.

The reality of this situation is that now Android has finally chips to scale devices from mobile to desktop, and laptop form factor. Kids who play mainly mobile games will have incentive to use such products because - they will have the same games on all: smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop.

The faster AMD, Nvidia, and even Intel will see this, the better for their business.

Because scaling Android to desktop, with all of its Apps, since we have hardware now, will be cheaper andeasier than scaling Windows to ARM.

EOT.

No.

The ISA games are compiled into is mostly a non factor. You write in C or whatever and compile it, and it doesn't matter much whether it compiles into x86 or ARM. You might call some libraries or even write a few short assembler sections in tight loops to insure the best SIMD code can be used, that's about it.

The difficulty in writing and porting games is in everything that surrounds that code you write - the OS and GPU drivers. Having competitive ARM SoCs does nothing to help Android games run on Windows.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

No.

The ISA games are compiled into is mostly a non factor. You write in C or whatever and compile it, and it doesn't matter much whether it compiles into x86 or ARM. You might call some libraries or even write a few short assembler sections in tight loops to insure the best SIMD code can be used, that's about it.

The difficulty in writing and porting games is in everything that surrounds that code you write - the OS and GPU drivers. Having competitive ARM SoCs does nothing to help Android games run on Windows.

Also memory model!

Many a programmer have been stung hard when they took code they wrote for x86 that been in use for a long time and just recompiled for Arm (usually for cell phone use), and suddenly there are these horrible heisenbugs that only very occasionally trigger.

The culprit is that x86 has a strong memory model (effectively, every load is an acquire, every store is release), while Arm uses a weak one where most memory accesses can be freely reordered and you have to specify acquire/release. The x86 model is very good at masking bugs people wrote that were not technically kosher in the C++ abstract memory model, but just always work right on x86 anyway. A simple recompile to Arm is only safe when your code is strictly single-threaded. Games are a good counterexample, with not just multiple threads but often multiple threads trampling all over each other's memory accesses. To make their emulation system work right, Apple had to introduce a x86-like memory model. I think most other Arm chips don't have that.

 

[aigomorla]

I dont think ARM can be faster then this in gaming until we see several generations of ARM.
Especially if paired with a higher mid tier GPU. Even if the ARM was getting 100fps on that game, im pretty sure the 9800X3D would do like 400+ with a DGPU.



AMD pretty much wrecks the gaming market now... and i think its gonna be that way until several more generations, or if AI can somehow magically squeeze out more frame rates.



Yes i am gonna have fun this weekend tweeking the living hell out of this, just need to wait for the 5090.

Even if we restrict ourselves to a PC with the power and performance level of the 7945HX (and which GPU?), your portable computer is a *lot* louder than a decently built stationary computer. Furthermore, keyboard and screen of your portable computer are bolted onto each other and are therefore by definition not ergonomic. Unhealthy in prolonged use.

My Surface Pro would like right of challenge to your statement to this.
And keyboards can be virtual, or even pen based with learning.
No one said you need a physical keyboard, and smart phone users are proof of that statement.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I dont think ARM can be faster then this in gaming until we see several generations of ARM.
Especially if paired with a higher mid tier GPU. Even if the ARM was getting 100fps on that game, im pretty sure the 9800X3D would do like 400+ with a DGPU.

View attachment 115078

AMD pretty much wrecks the gaming market now... and i think its gonna be that way until several more generations, or if AI can somehow magically squeeze out more frame rates.



Yes i am gonna have fun this weekend tweeking the living hell out of this, just need to wait for the 5090.



My Surface Pro would like right of challenge to your statement to this.
And keyboards can be virtual, or even pen based with learning.
No one said you need a physical keyboard, and smart phone users are proof of that statement.

What memory kit is that?

 

[aigomorla]

What memory kit is that?

CORSAIR Dominator Titanium RGB DDR5 RAM 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5 6000MHz​

 

[CP5670]

I travel fairly often, sometimes for over two weeks at a time. I can't remember the last time I brought even a thin and light laptop with me. A tablet does the job just fine these days. Also odds are a will be lugging around my DSLR and who knows how many lenses for that. Last thing I want is a laptop bag to have to deal with as well. And when I am home nothing beats a desktop. Why bother with a laptop if I'm just going to put it in a docking station anywa?

I'm nbot saying my solution works for everyone or that yours has no merit. I am just explaining why my preferences.

I use the desktop for games too, but do all my work on a Surface pro 7+ and take that on travel. It's light enough that I can put it alongside another work laptop in the same bag if needed. I have some classic RTS/4X games and emulators on it, which work fine on any PC.

DTR laptops won't replace desktops just because of the power output. There is no way to have a 575W 5090 in a laptop.

I barely play phone games at all (only have a few ports of old PC games) but it's true that this market is much bigger than PC/console.

 

[Thunder 57]

I use the desktop for games too, but do all my work on a Surface pro 7+ and take that on travel. It's light enough that I can put it alongside another work laptop in the same bag if needed. I have some classic RTS/4X games and emulators on it, which work fine on any PC.

DTR laptops won't replace desktops just because of the power output. There is no way to have a 575W 5090 in a laptop.

I barely play phone games at all (only have a few ports of old PC games) but it's true that this market is much bigger than PC/console.

I'd reply but I wthink we have gone off topic. Maybe the modd can say if we are or not?

 

[511]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1880118882985463887

N3E for Z6

 

[igor_kavinski]

That's lovely if it's 2026.

 

[misuspita]

2026, but more towards december

 

[adroc_thurston]

N3E for Z6

It's not N3e.
Either N3p or N2p/x, depending on the timeline.