Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[LightningZ71]

They can supply to wherever they can make a profit. The issue is more that the laptop motherboards for these products are rather unique and, given the price range that they sell into, low volume. Since this generation is still on AM5, we'll likely see the few (only?) vendor(s) that made Zen4 series laptops reuse the same board and cases for these products.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Since this generation is still on AM5, we'll likely see the few (only?) vendor(s) that made Zen4 series laptops reuse the same board and cases for these products.

They might save a few bucks on the cooling solutions since Zen 5 generally runs cooler. Laptops could be lighter too.

 

[fastandfurious6]

If AMD really wants the laptop gaming performance crown, then they can release a 9745HX3D any day of the week. They didn't release that for Dragon range, and I suspect that won't do it this time either.

exactly they make a huge mistake on this - everyone would only buy 9745hx3d laptops, then halo for AI/workstation and some lower model for office/redundant. strix point makes no sense

they're losing so many opportunities to drive intel out of business lol

 

[fastandfurious6]

also CES is in few days and still no big leaks?

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

also CES is in few days and still no big leaks?

There are some STXH and KRK GB6 runs.

 

[adroc_thurston]

everyone would only buy 9745hx3d laptops, then halo for AI/workstation

The TAM for this is 3 units in total.

strix point makes no sense

Don't. Just don't.

 

[LightningZ71]

They can supply to wherever they can make a profit. The issue is more that the laptop motherboards for these products are rather unique and, given the price range that they sell into, low volume. Since this generation is still on AM5, we'll likely see the few (only?) vendor(s) that made Zen4 series laptops reuse the same board and cases for these products.

I wanted to correct myself. It would have been named 9755HX3D...

 

[jdubs03]

Well there is this: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-lau...pu-series-up-to-16-zen5-cores-and-140mb-cache

Not sure what the model numbering is though. Would make the most sense if it was 9950HX(3D) and 9850HX. But we’ll know for sure later today.

 

[Gideon]

AMD also announced new handheld SKUs. I have to say I'm not the biggest fan of fitting 3 generations of products under the same name:

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-introduces-ryzen-z2-series-confirms-valve-steam-deck-update

• Zen 5 based 8-core 16CU "Z2 Extreme" (3xZen5 + 5x Zen5c)
• Zen 4 based 8-core 12 CU "Z2"
• Zen 3 based 4-core 12CU "Z2 Go"
  

The biggest thing is that Valve will use Z2 in Steam Deck!

The biggest upgrade there is the CPU side. Many games need more than 4 cores nowadays, but it's not even that. I think that quadrupling the L3 from 4MB -> 16MB is actually more benefitial to most games. Clock speeds upticks due to 7nm -> 5nm and Zen 4 don't hurt either. Valve could also use AVX-512 in proton or use x86-64-v4 based linux binaries (cause why not?).

The GPU upgrade is nice, but in 15W envelope, RDNA3 hasn't really outshown RDNA2 all that much. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual uplift is only 10-15% in GPU bound scenarios (unless Valve also upgrades memory).
The biggest thing for the GPU might turn out to be the eventual release of FSR 4, as RDNA3 should be ~2x faster using FP8 than RDNA2

 

[511]

I need strix halo performance slides can't they publish them 😭

 

[gaav87]

9800x3d vs 285k / 9950x3d vs 285k
From amd slides.

 

[LightningZ71]

Well there is this: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-lau...pu-series-up-to-16-zen5-cores-and-140mb-cache

Not sure what the model numbering is though. Would make the most sense if it was 9950HX(3D) and 9850HX. But we’ll know for sure later today.

Once again, they skip the most obvious product, the 8 core "9755HX3D"

 

[LightningZ71]

AMD also announced new handheld SKUs. I have to say I'm not the biggest fan of fitting 3 generations of products under the same name:

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-introduces-ryzen-z2-series-confirms-valve-steam-deck-update

• Zen 5 based 8-core 16CU "Z2 Extreme" (3xZen5 + 5x Zen5c)
• Zen 4 based 8-core 12 CU "Z2"
• Zen 3 based 4-core 12CU "Z2 Go"

The biggest thing is that Valve will use Z2 in Steam Deck!

The biggest upgrade there is the CPU side. Many games need more than 4 cores nowadays, but it's not even that. I think that quadrupling the L3 from 4MB -> 16MB is actually more benefitial to most games. Clock speeds upticks due to 7nm -> 5nm and Zen 4 don't hurt either. Valve could also use AVX-512 in proton or use x86-64-v4 based linux binaries (cause why not?).

The GPU upgrade is nice, but in 15W envelope, RDNA3 hasn't really outshown RDNA2 all that much. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual uplift is only 10-15% in GPU bound scenarios (unless Valve also upgrades memory).
The biggest thing for the GPU might turn out to be the eventual release of FSR 4, as RDNA3 should be ~2x faster using FP8 than RDNA2

This was corrected. The slide isn't supposed to say that the Steam Deck will use the Z2. It's supposed to indicate that it would be good for similar type products.

 

[LightningZ71]

For the Z2 Go, I wonder if that is a specifically cut down Rembrandt based design? That's a LOT of wasted silicon to have 4 cores disabled just to keep the iGPU of the full die. It would make more sense to have a smaller, re-floorplanned die that dispenses with some of the unneeded parts of the die, like 4 cores, one PCIe root, a couple of USB roots, etc. Either that, or they got a good deal from TSMC for keeping older litho tools in use.

Is there even a substantive difference between the Z1 Extreme and the Z2? Did they take the time to shrink that one as well by lopping off the NPU, a PCIe and some USB? I kind of doubt that.

I don't even want to think about how bad some of the more heavily threaded games will suffer on the Z2Extreme. Those split CCXs will not be friendly to it, and having such limited L3 on the C cores will hurt.

 

[igor_kavinski]

View attachment 114308

If 9800X3D is still the average fps champ, what key differentiators was AMD talking about? Or is this one more marketing blunder?

 

[jpiniero]

For the Z2 Go, I wonder if that is a specifically cut down Rembrandt based design? That's a LOT of wasted silicon to have 4 cores disabled just to keep the iGPU of the full die.

Probably just a specific bin.

 

[511]

Once again, they skip the most obvious product, the 8 core "9755HX3D"

Definitely but they would rather sell that to gamers for 400+ than to OEMs and no OEM would buy it at that price for laptop

 

[WelshBloke]

9800x3d vs 285k / 9950x3d vs 285k
From amd slides.
View attachment 114308

I've not really been keeping up with the rumours (or this thread tbh) but doesn't the 9950x3d have a higher boost click than the 9800x3d?
If so the 9800x3d in that chart is scoring higher because of its base clock being higher?
So if the 9950x3d should benefit more from a beefy AIO cooler more and pull ahead with a bit of tweaking?

 

[Abwx]

For the Z2 Go, I wonder if that is a specifically cut down Rembrandt based design? That's a LOT of wasted silicon to have 4 cores disabled just to keep the iGPU of the full die. It would make more sense to have a smaller, re-floorplanned die that dispenses with some of the unneeded parts of the die, like 4 cores, one PCIe root, a couple of USB roots, etc. Either that, or they got a good deal from TSMC for keeping older litho tools in use.

8C + L3 amount to 51mm2, so there s only 20mm2 lost, barely 10% of the chip surface, and they can sell it at 100$ and still get 60% gross margin, not counting that they can harvest chips with 1-4 bad cores.

 

[fastandfurious6]

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-introduces-ryzen-z2-series-confirms-valve-steam-deck-update

• Zen 5 based 8-core 16CU "Z2 Extreme" (3xZen5 + 5x Zen5c)
• Zen 4 based 8-core 12 CU "Z2"
• Zen 3 based 4-core 12CU "Z2 Go"

The biggest thing is that Valve will use Z2 in Steam Deck!

valve representative just denied this, no z2 steam deck

 

[fastandfurious6]

9800x3d vs 285k / 9950x3d vs 285k
From amd slides.
View attachment 114308

losing mah minddddddddd

 

[gaav87]

I've not really been keeping up with the rumours (or this thread tbh) but doesn't the 9950x3d have a higher boost click than the 9800x3d?
If so the 9800x3d in that chart is scoring higher because of its base clock being higher?
So if the 9950x3d should benefit more from a beefy AIO cooler more and pull ahead with a bit of tweaking?

No clue i just used amd slides vs 285k

 

[techjunkie123]

No clue i just used amd slides vs 285k

Probably just AMD marketing being usual inconsistent ....

Wait for reviews.

 

[WelshBloke]

No clue i just used amd slides vs 285k

I'm just speculating, its not like I can buy a 9800X3D at the moment, they are all oos!

*All the below is based on rumours!*

9950x3d matches the 9950x in cinebench which suggests they have the same clocks. Base 4.3, Boost 5.7
9800x3d has a base clock of 4.7 and boost of 5.2

So its going to be fun to see if the 9950x3d can be pushed up to match the 9800x3d base clock! It would be nice to have a CPU thats the best in nearly every situation!

 

[gdansk]

The biggest upgrade there is the CPU side.

Is it actually based on Strix Point? Then it's a downgrade (edit: from Z1E) because now it only has a 3 core high speed CCX.