Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Markfw]

It seems if you are a gamer, you will find everything wrong with Zen 5 that you can. If not then you either like it or love it. And the x3d series is king for games, so when it comes out, everyone will love it.
(unless you hate AMD)

 

[marees]

It seems if you are a gamer, you will find everything wrong with Zen 5 that you can.

All gamers are or primarily gamers who game at 300 fps ?

 

[Markfw]

All gamers are primarily gamers who game at 300 fps ?

What ? that makes no sense in light of my comments.

 

[Makaveli]

But it doesn't do awesome in games so its a complete dumpster fire release like all the techtubers told me. /s

lol thankfully there are alot of people on this site the predate youtube and tech tubers. Its the younger gen that follow these guys religiously and sadly they were never around to see how article heavy tech sites use to be with far more knowledge.

i'm talking prime Anandtech, HardOCP, Tech Report etc etc if you know you know.

 

[misuspita]

There is a client die - Strix Point.

It has client prioritizations (half-speed AVX-512, less SIMD register capacity, perhaps other things).

So how is the Strix Halo Zen5? Is it slimmed for a desktop/mobile CPU or it's gonna be a full fat Server (mostly useless for us normal users)?

 

[marees]

What ? that makes no sense in light of my comments.

I meant to ask do all gamers need a high performance chip considering that games are mostly GPU constrained & not bound on CPU. An adequate CPU should be enough in most cases, right ??

 

[Heartbreaker]

So how is the Strix Halo Zen5? Is it slimmed for a desktop/mobile CPU or it's gonna be a full fat Server (mostly useless for us normal users)?

It looks like it has a new IO+GPU and using standard compute tiles, so it's the full CPU part.

 

[misuspita]

IO+GPU is welcomed, especially the IO part. Can it be used with LPCAMM2 memory and if not, why? I guess, i would have loved for them to be more revolutionary....

 

[Ranulf]

lol thankfully there are alot of people on this site the predate youtube and tech tubers. Its the younger gen that follow these guys religiously and sadly they were never around to see how article heavy tech sites use to be with far more knowledge.

i'm talking prime Anandtech, HardOCP, Tech Report etc etc if you know you know.

Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with the CPU, but it's not a step forward for most users in generic gaming/internet/media consumption/productivity, and it's price/performance in those areas is worse.

It has some significant improvements that show up in specific niches, and those particular buyers may find value now, but most will wait for the price/performance to improve for their more generic needs.

Most of the reviews reflect that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a fairly generic user, so I prefer the generic gaming/internet/media/productivity tests, in reviews like HWUB, over niche reviews of esoteric Linux benchmarks from Phoronix.

 

[Thunder 57]

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with the CPU, but it's not a step forward for most users in generic gaming/internet/media consumption/productivity, and it's price/performance in those areas is worse.

It has some significant improvements that show up in specific niches, and those particular buyers may find value now, but most will wait for the price/performance to improve for their more generic needs.

Most of the reviews reflect that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a fairly generic user, so I prefer the generic gaming/internet/media/productivity tests, in reviews like HWUB, over niche reviews of esoteric Linux benchmarks from Phoronix.

Most reviews called it a dumpster fire. They wanted the views for the hot take. It's a serviceable replacement, but as you said the price/perf just isn't there at this point.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Most reviews called it a dumpster fire. They wanted the views for the hot take. It's a serviceable replacement, but as you said the price/perf just isn't there at this point.

As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.

 

[Thunder 57]

As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.

Who is defending it to the death? Complete strawman.

 

[gdansk]

As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.

AMD isn't a monopoly. In any market. And you wonder why people treat them differently to a company with two monopolies?

 

[tsamolotoff]

LPCAMM2

Why people are so psyched about this, it's literally 1DPC board with bad cooling bundled in. It won't magically improve mem oc, especially on Ryzen in 1:1 mode, and you can do 7800 (2dpc) and 8000+ (1dpc) anyway

 

[coercitiv]

As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

 

[biostud]

Here's a hot take from me: I personally believe that all CPUs post-Alder Lake are a vast freaking overkill for gaming. It's really not that relevant whether CS2 runs at 600 fps or 750.

I don't think so.

If we put competitive gaming aside, you have to turn your thinking around and say that you would as an example always want 150+ fps in your games. As long as your CPU can deliver this you are good to go and it is just a matter of lowering quality or using upscaling on your video card (or buy a faster). As game engine develops they will also use more CPU ressources, although they always have to make sure they also work on lower end hardware. So CPUs also needs to be faster, although they are not pushed in the same ways as the GPUs.

 

[eek2121]

Not anymore because AMD has bumped the price so much for that platform and it’s CPUs that it’s no longer interesting for most people.

They need to bump the clocks. Peak clocks on the top SKUs should be the same as a 7950X or 9950X.

I’d build a 64 core Threadripper system if they did that.

 

[H T C]

This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

I don't have access to the endnote of the AMD tests that claimed the 9700X to the roughly 2% faster than the 7800X3D, so i'm asking: could he be referring to the 9700X using PBO, and NOT stock?

Correct me if i'm wrong: doesn't the 9700X perform SUBSTANTIALLY better with PBO, @ the cost of efficiency, and thus MAYBE better than the 7800X3D?

 

[biostud]

This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

Also as Do says, they should have been compared with the 7700 and 7600 which both came with a boxed cooler and quite a different MSRP.

 

[Makaveli]

Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.

I'm not saying there aren't some good tech tubers there are. But if you were around 20+ years there is clearly a difference. You make a good point about the audience back then you had to be interested in this stuff and actively looking for it. Now a days youtube appeals to pretty much everyone which include non technical people.

But this maybe alittle off topic for this thread because i'm not referring specifically to Zen 5.

 

[yuri69]

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

This is one of the occasions I wish I had an insight into a one day of an "AMD marketing person". What are the strategic goals? What are the daily tasks? How are they managed? How is the public output verified with legals and engineering?

Oh well

 

[CakeMonster]

CPU's are generally mostly 'good enough' these days, but then there are the issues of minimum frame rates, where upgrading to the last few generations make a difference, and edge cases like BG3 in NPC heavy locations, or Starfield in general... Yeah, mostly not a worry, but the higher end desktop users are certainly disappointed to not see Z5 helping much.

 

[Thunder 57]

This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

I've disliked AMD marketing since, probably forever? They may have been good in the K7 days. But what they have now is garbage. Verbal diarrhea.

 

[Thibsie]

I've disliked AMD marketing since, probably forever? They may have been good in the K7 days. But what they have now is garbage. Verbal diarrhea.

Market-what ? Marketing ?
They might want to hire their first guy and create the marketing service lol.
They never had proper marketing. Never.