Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
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I have noticed this too- that the quality of technical discussion has declined in recent years, especially in places like r/hardware. I don't know about this forum, but I assume it's true here as well. I think a large part of the reason is that indeed, we do not have likes Anand, Andrei or Ian anymore, putting out high quality articles that even the average techie can understand.
Media in general has declined, social media and clickbait has taken over. Ens****ification and all that. So its probably just as much the large trends, as it is specific good journalists bowing out or changing careers. People's attention spans have changed to prefer video, I never watched hardware videos 10 years ago. What annoys me even more than the formats are that people willingly choose to consume, acknowledge, and boost known dishonest actors though when there is other good content in the same format that is a bit less clickbaity.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,353
12,956
136
Media in general has declined, social media and clickbait has taken over. Ens****ification and all that. So its probably just as much the large trends, as it is specific good journalists bowing out or changing careers. People's attention spans have changed to prefer video, I never watched hardware videos 10 years ago. What annoys me even more than the formats are that people willingly choose to consume, acknowledge, and boost known dishonest actors though when there is other good content in the same format that is a bit less clickbaity.
The good news is that pretty soon you can task an AI agent to watch those video's and write an article on the content... probably with graphs and everything.


But yea, I too wish that Ideocracy was fiction and not prophecy.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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What annoys me even more than the formats are that people willingly choose to consume, acknowledge, and boost known dishonest actors though when there is other good content in the same format that is a bit less clickbaity.
It's the same public boosting dishonest politicians by getting impressed with their lies and voting for them. Nothing surprising. When teaching isn't as good a profession as medicine and engineering, how can you trust teachers to raise a more intelligent public?
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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You will be the first to know the moment i hold one in my dirty hands :-D

Maybe wash your hands before touching the CPU. :p

Is 35 considered being an Old Geezer? :D

Depends. How long do you intend on living? :smilingimp:

You admit you're on a long downhill slide once you hit 42

This is why I keep buying AMD GPUs. I hope some of the "fine wine" manages to rub off on me.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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This is strange. The open source ecosystem surrounding Linux is a nearly endless source of tinkering, tuning, hacking
That's the problem. A car that requires you opening the trunk and working on the innards every 2-3 times you take it for a drive is a PITA.
, and - most importantly - a way to "know how things work under the hood"
Knowledge is one thing, dealing with the specifics of a config file whose format is 30 years old and makes absolutely no sense to you and requires to learn a bunch of specific things from multiple 15 year old forum posts is NOT the kind of knowledge people want to have.
Discovering new things and understanding how technology really works can be an exciting experience. No other PC platform can provide this.
I've ran Arch for some time and after 6-9 months decided that the Linux Experiment was a waste of my time and went back to Windows. The Windows experience may be inferior in a lot of ways, but it requires zero input to work in a predictable and broadly functioning manner.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,720
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Depends. How long do you intend on living? :smilingimp:

Join Team Zombie! Age? What's that?

I've ran Arch for some time and after 6-9 months decided that the Linux Experiment was a waste of my time and went back to Windows. The Windows experience may be inferior in a lot of ways, but it requires zero input to work in a predictable and broadly functioning manner.
Dual boot, or use the Windows Linux VM features. Best of both worlds. Mostly.

Back to Zen5 - how long does anyone think it will be before there's a 3D cache version of it? Will there be one?
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,292
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Join Team Zombie! Age? What's that?


Dual boot, or use the Windows Linux VM features. Best of both worlds. Mostly.

Back to Zen5 - how long does anyone think it will be before there's a 3D cache version of it? Will there be one?
Probably within a year. Maybe 3/4. So there is a new generation every two year and a upgrade option halfway.
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
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The wild card here is that Zen5c/Turin Dense is going to be on an N3 variant. Will AMD move Zen53D over to N3 as well?

I doubt it. Part of the modular approach is that you re-use the modules, which means re-using the original Zen 5 die.

What I am hoping for is perhaps some tweaks to the process of making the 3D V-Cache that would result in it being more robust to allow same / similar clock speeds as regular non-V-Cache models.

And / or options for more V-Cache.

Considering that V-Cache was introduced in mid 2021 and first Milan chips shipped at the end of 2021, 3 years later, and 3rd iteration of products, I don't think it is unrealistic to expect "something" in terms of improvements / advances.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,720
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I doubt it. Part of the modular approach is that you re-use the modules, which means re-using the original Zen 5 die.
I was sort of thinking the same thing, but keep in mind that Zen53D dice will generally be Turin-X rejects. If AMD wants to hit as hard as possible in the datacentre, moving Turin-X to an N3 variant (other than N3B, lulz) would be an extremely aggressive move that could give them a greater competitive edge. That being said, Intel poses no threat to them this coming generation, so perhaps AMD would not need N3E just yet.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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Back to Zen5 - how long does anyone think it will be before there's a 3D cache version of it? Will there be one?
About a year or so. Maybe 9 months only like Z4.
The thing is, considering Z5's general power, I'm really expecting a very large volume to walk out of the TSMC ovens for a long time, and that AMD can just ignore launching any other CPU products for a solid year. Strix Point will come out around late Q3 or Q4, and after that there could be a good 6 or so months before any V$.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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The wild card here is that Zen5c/Turin Dense is going to be on an N3 variant. Will AMD move Zen53D over to N3 as well?
Wut? No!
SRAM already suffers from not scaling anymore. 3D V$ allows stacking cache, it doesn't overturn the fact that smaller nodes will be more expensive.
Zen4c already has less cache precisely because it's more of a waste on a more expensive node meant to be denser. Makes no sense to have 3D V$ options at the smaller node.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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What if someone made a handheld console with a severely undercooked Strix Halo APU?

Ultra-efficient gaming?
Best FPS-per-watt ?
 
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BorisTheBlade82

Senior member
May 1, 2020
667
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Wut? No!
SRAM already suffers from not scaling anymore. 3D V$ allows stacking cache, it doesn't overturn the fact that smaller nodes will be more expensive.
Zen4c already has less cache precisely because it's more of a waste on a more expensive node meant to be denser. Makes no sense to have 3D V$ options at the smaller node.
I think it was more about the CCD and not the Cache die.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,720
11,014
136
Wut? No!
SRAM already suffers from not scaling anymore. 3D V$ allows stacking cache, it doesn't overturn the fact that smaller nodes will be more expensive.
Zen4c already has less cache precisely because it's more of a waste on a more expensive node meant to be denser. Makes no sense to have 3D V$ options at the smaller node.
The cache die obviously wouldn't be on N3E. I'm talking about the underlying compute die.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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I was sort of thinking the same thing, but keep in mind that Zen53D dice will generally be Turin-X rejects

That s based on urban legends, there s no such thing that exist as homogeneity of the production is good enough and server parts are used at quite low frequencies that do not exceed 4GHz or so.

Also servers parts not only do no need the higher frequency capable parts but the chips are also fed with higher voltages than the DT parts at a given frequency for inconditional stability purposes.