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Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

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NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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Im just saying that the Steam Deck has the same resolution as the Aya Neo that has just a Vega 6, the Neo needed that resolution for performance, i dont think thats the case for the Steam Deck. The good thing is that the GPU will be underused in a lot of games, that means more battery life.
It also gives the Steam Deck more headroom, and hopefully a longer lifespan. I expect Valve won't update the hardware for at least 3 years, so they need this chip to last.
 
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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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How much does the BIOS allow you to actually change? How bad does the PCIe slot being PCIe 2.0 X4 gimp GPU performance? Does having such a massive amount of memory bandwidth translate into surprisingly good performance in any memory throughput limited benchmarks?
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
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So I'm actually having a lot of trouble getting a straight answer on this. I hear arguments for both.

Older AMD APUs only had 8x lanes to the GPU slots, 8x of them being eaten up internally for the GPU I guess. I can't figure out if this is fixed with 5000 series APUs.

In other words, if you installed a full 16x GPU into a system with a 5600G in it, what would cpu-z say it was using for lanes? 8x or 16x?
 

Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
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I dunno but the probability of this having a real world influence on performance of the said GPU is near zilch IMO.
 
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moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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So I'm actually having a lot of trouble getting a straight answer on this. I hear arguments for both.

Older AMD APUs only had 8x lanes to the GPU slots, 8x of them being eaten up internally for the GPU I guess. I can't figure out if this is fixed with 5000 series APUs.

In other words, if you installed a full 16x GPU into a system with a 5600G in it, what would cpu-z say it was using for lanes? 8x or 16x?
The only difference between the 4000 and 5000 series APUs is the upgrade of the cores from Zen 2 to Zen 3.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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Several motherboard manuals that I have seen reference the first PCIe slit getting 16 lanes for 4000 and up APUs. It's now 16+4+4
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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(Sorry, duplicate)

Several motherboard manuals that I have seen reference the first PCIe slit getting 16 lanes for 4000 and up APUs. It's now 16+4+4
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Many older board manual seemed to wrongly reference Picasso (not really a surprise considering a consumer desktop Renoir APU didn't and still officially doesn't exist). All board manuals I've seen for B550 and A520 (which launched later) correctly show the lane configs possible to be the same for both Matisse and Renoir, the difference being PCIe 3 instead 4 for the latter.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Ok the initial impressions, not so good. The 4700S is one of the lowest effort things i ever saw in my life:

BIOS:
Only options you can change there is secure boot, SVM and IOMMU on/off... and no much more. In fact it lacks ACPI settings!!!! what means, you cant set this board to auto power on after a power failure. There is no network stack or anything really.
TPM 2.0 is enabled by default.

PowerCFG:
I havent done power draw tests yet, but the first thing i noticed is that after installing the default AMD chipset driver it would not drop the clocks below 3ghz. Then i did both a bios update from C4 to C8 and installed the chipset drivers avalible on the 4700S page, and now it goes back to 0.8Ghz, but im not sure of what did the trick.

I/O: TRASH
This thing does not have a USB 2.0 header what is insane really, i really have a hard time finding a case for this thing that only have 1 USB 3.0 connector, most of them have 1x3.0 + 1x2.0 or 2x3.0, the CM Q500L is the only one i have at hand in fact.

The PCI-E is x4 2.0 and this thing comes in combo with a AMD branded RX 550 2GB, they say it is a powercolor, but it has a AMD logo on them, that seems to be a thing worldwide, i havent done game testing yet but im conviced that the RX 550 2GB will perform below a 3400G Vega 11 level due to the 2GB and the PCI-E interface, it is a very bad idea to bundle this thing with a 2GB card. It should have been the 4GB version.

The GB ETHERNET CARD IS A USB 3.0 DEVICE!!! it still performs rather well, but it is something to keep in mind.

Performance:
-Both Cinebench and CPU-Z point at this thing performing slightly faster than a 1700X
-ST turbo is 4Ghz, MT is 3.6Ghz.
-Latency is off the charts, altrought im not sure if i can trust those aida results.



Temperatures:
The backside, were the GDDR6 memory is, is cooled by a larger than normal aluminiun backplate, it really gets hot and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
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.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
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That SoC should have never left the PS5, not in this state. Latency seems in line with what others reported, it's GDDR6 after all, bandwidth over latency.

Can hwinfo read the SVI2 TFN telemetry to read how much power it's consuming?
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,227
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Ok the initial impressions, not so good. The 4700S is one of the lowest effort things i ever saw in my life:
I really wouldn't expect much from a rejected console SoC. It's a quick way to make a buck because of the chip shortage.

I/O: TRASH
This thing does not have a USB 2.0 header what is insane really, i really have a hard time finding a case for this thing that only have 1 USB 3.0 connector, most of them have 1x3.0 + 1x2.0 or 2x3.0, the CM Q500L is the only one i have at hand in fact.
You might be able to hack around that with a hub and a few adaptors, but those cost money, so I'm not sure of the value proposition.

The PCI-E is x4 2.0 and this thing comes in combo with a RX 550 2GB, that seems to be a thing worldwide, i havent done game testing yet but im conviced that the RX 550 2GB will perform below a 3400G Vega 11 level due to the 2GB and the PCI-E interface, it is a very bad idea to bundle this thing with a 2GB card.
The graphics card is there to provide video output. As have been shown in reviews, it's unsuitable for gaming.

f.x.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-4700s-desktop-kit-ps5-cpu-review

The GB ETHERNET CARD IS A USB 3.0 DEVICE!!! it still performs rather well, but it is something to keep in mind.
There are barely enough PCIe lanes for a GPU, so I'm not surprised.

Performance:
-Both Cinebench and CPU-Z point at this thing performing slightly faster than a 1700X
-ST turbo is 4Ghz, MT is 3.6Ghz.
-Latency is off the charts, altrought im not sure if i can trust those aida results.
I'd take a 1700X or any other 6/8 core AM4 CPU over this thing anytime. I'd even settle for a quad in a pinch.

Latency is probably accurate. It is GDDR6, so not unexpected.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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But this thing has a A77E chipset (no idea of were they got them from) i havent removed the heat sink to confirm it, but thats what CPU-Z seems to think... they could have done a better job, for example, it supports up to 6 SATAS. Why 2? Why no USB 2.0 header? etc.

Now the gaming performance should not be that slow, even for a x4 2.0 interface, im yet to try myself, i smell something fishy going on here... the x4 2.0 must come from the A77E chipset... what if... there is any way i can confirm the PCI-E link speed from the chipset to the CPU? or better yet, from the GPU to the CPU? im thinking that the PCI-E link may be actually slower than x4 2.0.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,227
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Now the gaming performance should not be that slow, even for a x4 2.0 interface, im yet to try myself, i smell something fishy going on here...
I doubt it's the PCIe interface. I suspect the GDDR6 memory, that kind of latency will have an effect. Plus the Zen2 cores are apparently cut down a bit to only 2 FPU ports, from 4 in regular Zen2. That'll certainly hurt performance.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,365
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Ok the budled RX 550 is a total trash, it is the AMD version of the GT1030 DDR4... i never seen a RX550 that performs so badly. It is 64 bit DDR5 but i doubt thats the only problem i need to take a closer look at it.

Ok, some shadow of the tomb raider results using the medium preset at 1080p

RX550


1050TI


2060


And, as a totally fair comparison, here are that same 550 and 2060 on a 5600X on a B450M-DS3H, tested both on the x16 slot and the x4 2.0 slot. I didnt have time to test the 1050ti.


RX550 at x4 2.0


RX550 at x16


2060 at x4 2.0


2060 at x16
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,365
978
136
Ok the PS5 has one NVME expansion slot that is x4 4.0, thats 4 lanes right there. No idea where the wifi and ethernet is wired on the PS5, these are USB devices as well?

Anyway the problem with the 4700S is the choice of chipset, the A77E (again from what dark place they managed to get these things from?).

A A520 would have allowed for x4 3.0 what would have mostly fixed the issue, not to mention the posibility of also having a x2 NVME or a PCI-E nic. Im not saying thats the right chipset to use here, but they have to have a better thing than this 2014 relic.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
942
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For AMD, not really if they were intending to use a product from their Embedded line. The A77E is just about their best FCH in the embedded space. They had a SLIGHTLY more capable model in the desktop space, but it wouldn't have made a difference here anyway. They aren't even fully exploiting the capabilities of the A77E! It has the capability of driving 6 SATA ports and 4+10 USB3/2 ports as well as a Secure Digital interface. This is a lowest possible effort product, and, should have only ever seen duty in P.O.S. terminals with cheaper DRAM.

If these things were cheap enough, they MIGHT make sense as CPU coin mining nodes. Unfortunately, they aren't really all that good for that with their tiny L3 cache. Maybe headless virtualization nodes for processes that don't work and play well with other process on the same image, but don't require a lot of I/O?
 

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