Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

[VirtualLarry]

Also tested by Reous - hardwareluxx.de.

Wow, Memory benchmarks (AIDA64) seem to scale with Memory clock all the way up to DDR4-4400. Very impressive, AMD.

 

[Shivansps]

Today i came across this video:

It is a a gaming comparison with 3200/3600/4000 ram with a 4350G both stock and massive 2300mhz overclock.

It is petty much the same experience i had in my short tests with the 4650G, there is a interesting jump in FPS in going from 3200mhz ram to 3600mhz ram, but after that it petty much flatlines, and it looks like the OC does not helps it much.
It seems like at some point from DDR4-3600 to DDR4-4000 Renoir igp is not longer memory limited and it hits a bottleneck somewhere else, maybe the shader number is just to small or maybe the ROPs that is half of Picasso.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Are these going to be available at retail any time in 2020?

 

[LightningZ71]

It seems to be the case that using dual rank dimms is giving a notable performance improvement for the APUs in laptops. I wonder if the desktop chips see the same effects. It may be that, since the laptops don't allow overclocking, that they notice the improvement to a greater degree.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I wonder if the desktop chips see the same effects.

They do. Even IGP-less CPUs see benefits from dual-rank DIMMs.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-ram-scaling-effect-in-games,6.html

 

[LightningZ71]

I was thinking specifically about iGPU performance, but thank you for that link.

 

[scineram]

Are these going to be available at retail any time in 2020?

No.

 

[moinmoin]

Just for completion, on 10th AMD announced the Renoir-based V2000 embedded line.

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/embedded-ryzen-v2000-series

Model	TDP Range	CPU Core / Thread Count	CPU Base Freq. GHz	1T CPU Boost Freq. GHz @80C (Up to)*	Radeon Graphics Compute Unit Count	Graphics Freq. GHz (up to max)	Max # of simultaneous displays	L2 Cache	DRAM ECC
V2748	35-54W	8 / 16	2.9 GHz	4.25 GHz	7	1.6 GHz	4	4 MB	3200
V2546	35-54W	6 / 12	3.0 GHz	3.95 GHz	6	1.5 GHz	4	3 MB	3200
V2718	10-25W	8 / 16	1.7 GHz	4.15 GHz	7	1.6 GHz	4	4 MB	3200
V2516	10-25W	6 / 12	2.1 GHz	3.95 GHz	6	1.5 GHz	4	3 MB	3200

 

[DrMrLordX]

3.95GHz boost in an embedded CPU? Interesting.

 

[LightningZ71]

So, there's apparently not enough of a market, or enough available volume in production, to justify formally releasing Renoir desktop APUs to the general market, but there's enough demand for AMD to release an embedded version to companies that want to make what are essentially the same products that many of us would like to make, mini-ITX and mini PCs for use in space constrained or entertainment center environments. I guess that they are satisfied with the grey market they are seeing for the pro models.

 

[Shivansps]

So, there's apparently not enough of a market, or enough available volume in production, to justify formally releasing Renoir desktop APUs to the general market, but there's enough demand for AMD to release an embedded version to companies that want to make what are essentially the same products that many of us would like to make, mini-ITX and mini PCs for use in space constrained or entertainment center environments. I guess that they are satisfied with the grey market they are seeing for the pro models.

The problem is that in desktop you cant launch the 4350G at $160, how do you justify this 60% price increase for a entry level Ryzen 3 APU that has, overall, worse IGP than the 3400G at $150 and it is about 20% faster in cpu? When you have a faster 4C/8T I3-10100 for just $110 if you only want a IGP and dont care about 3d perf. Even a 3100+GT710 is cheaper than that 4350G.

THATS the problem they have with the desktop market, they would be forced to match the I3-10100 price, and that is $120 MAX, and it would be OK because it should be the 3200G replacement.

In the embedded and OEM sector they have more freedom to charge wharever they want.

 

[Asterox]

So, there's apparently not enough of a market, or enough available volume in production, to justify formally releasing Renoir desktop APUs to the general market, but there's enough demand for AMD to release an embedded version to companies that want to make what are essentially the same products that many of us would like to make, mini-ITX and mini PCs for use in space constrained or entertainment center environments. I guess that they are satisfied with the grey market they are seeing for the pro models.

It will be realased, most likely in Q1 2021+Bios with suport for B450 and X470 motherboards.

AMD Renoir: Support für 400er-Chipsätze kommt erst nach Zen-3-Start

Renoir kann Matisse gefährlich nah kommen, deshalb wird AMD den 400er-Chipsatz-Support erst nach der Vorstellung von Zen 3 freigeben.

translate.google.com

Impressive power consumption numbers, or total system power consumption. But it is expected from 7nm Monolithic CPU/APU, in combination with much smaller L3 Cache.

AMD Ryzen 3 4350G im Test

Der AMD Ryzen 3 4350G ist die kleinste Zen-2-APU. Er löst nahezu alles, was bisher da war, ab und macht Vorfreude auf neue Athlon.

www.computerbase.de

I'm waiting for that Bios, i am currently using Athlon 3000G.

I can buy 4350G in my country today on now. But without Bios suport, for mine B450 motherboard this APU is blah.

R5 3400G vs R3 4350G price comparison, in my country in retail converted to dolars.

R3 4350G, 187$
R5 3400G, 177$

 

[zir_blazer]

By the time that Renoir gets oficially released on desktop, history will repeat itself but with Cezanne. Dissapointing.

Ryzen Embedded V2000 has no models exposing the full 8 CU GPU. For some reason they don't expose the full Renoir 24 PCIe Lanes either, only 20. Good thing is that you get 8 USB Ports (4 3.0, 4 2.0) from the SoC itself. Could easily kick the Chipset out of the platform.

 

[misuspita]

Cezanne, having Zen 3 cores inside, might be a real beast. Having a 6c/12t equivalent but with graphics can enable a Asrock X300 15x15cm mini system with enormous power...

 

[jpiniero]

Thing is, even OEMs are seemingly not interested in Renoir desktop. Between Dell, Lenovo and HP I only see 2 models available. There were 4-5 desktops with Renoir mobile.

The virus might be playing a role in that.

 

[moinmoin]

So, there's apparently not enough of a market, or enough available volume in production, to justify formally releasing Renoir desktop APUs to the general market, but there's enough demand for AMD to release an embedded version to companies that want to make what are essentially the same products that many of us would like to make, mini-ITX and mini PCs for use in space constrained or entertainment center environments. I guess that they are satisfied with the grey market they are seeing for the pro models.

Can't everything be explained with margins? Cultivating OEM business is a good multiplicator for further demand.

 

[Zepp]

Thing is, even OEMs are seemingly not interested in Renoir desktop. Between Dell, Lenovo and HP I only see 2 models available. There were 4-5 desktops with Renoir mobile.

The virus might be playing a role in that.

I recently stumbled on these 2 Lenovo machines with desktop Renoir options

IdeaCentre 5 AMD | Desktop Tower For Home

Meet the Lenovo IdeaCentre 5, a versatile desktop PC for great of work from home, remote learning, and gaming. Features a powerful AMD Ryzen™ processor.

www.lenovo.com

IdeaCentre 5 AMD | Desktop Tower For Home

Meet the Lenovo IdeaCentre 5, a versatile desktop PC for great of work from home, remote learning, and gaming. Features a powerful AMD Ryzen™ processor.

www.lenovo.com

 

[Shivansps]

Well, they are using 3200mhz dual channel and nvme, thats a suprise for $404 for the 4350G. The 3200G model has 8GB 2666 single channel and only 1TB HDD drive... And is $335.... mmm AMD had to lower the Renoir OEM prices already or Lenovo is making a big effort here? It looks like lenovo has the 10100 and the 4350G at the same price, this is how it should be.

 

[LightningZ71]

The star deal is the 4700g version. $540 nets you the 4700g, 16GN 3200 dual channel ram, 1TB HDD +256GB ssd. That's a nicer system than what I have on my work desktop no, and it costs half of what mine did 18 months ago.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The star deal is the 4700g version. $540 nets you the 4700g, 16GN 3200 dual channel ram, 1TB HDD +256GB ssd. That's a nicer system than what I have on my work desktop no, and it costs half of what mine did 18 months ago.

Could AMD be trying to gain corporate desktop market-share with their Renoir desktop APU PCs?

 

[gdansk]

The star deal is the 4700g version. $540 nets you the 4700g, 16GN 3200 dual channel ram, 1TB HDD +256GB ssd. That's a nicer system than what I have on my work desktop no, and it costs half of what mine did 18 months ago.

Although now it is "temporarily unavailable". Must be hard to keep in stock.

 

[Asterox]

As it seems, Gigabyte B450 motherboards with the latest F60e Bios already have support for Renoir APU.

For example i will use this Gigabyte B450 model.As we see, officially in the new Bios version Renoir support has not yet been officially highlighted.

B450M S2H (rev. 1.x) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...

www.gigabyte.com

Renoir support on B450 (Gigabyte) boards is already here

I previously reported that an ASUS A520 board was backwards compatible with 3200G and 3400G APUs, but that the Gigabyte B450 boards I had did not work with a Renoir Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G using the F51 BIOS. Neither combinations were supported on paper, but the former worked flawlessly. Now I can...

hardwarecanucks.com

 

[Shivansps]

I just read the anandtech review of Renoir... WHY, WHY it is so hard to understand that APUs runs games at 900p high/med/low or 720p min/med? 1080p it is just too much for almost every game. 900p is the best performance/quality for IGPs, and 720p only if 900p is not a option...
And AMD hardware resolution scaling helps a lot in not having issues with monitors that dont like to be ran at below than native resolution.

My last playtrought of the Witcher 3 was a year ago, with a 3200G with a Vega 8... at 900p with a mix of high/med/low settings(at 1080p i was getting maybe 35fps at all low). if i did not know already i would have never realised that i was playing with a IGP and the my playtrought before than one was just a few months before, with a RX 480 and a R7 1700!!!!.

What i see in the review? 360p and 1080p max... That is not a good representation of what these IGPs can do.

 

[Asterox]

As far i see, Renoir APU now has much beeter retail availability.For example, R5 Pro 4650G in now available at German retailer Mindafactory and also in Austria.

https://geizhals.at/amd-ryzen-5-pro-4650g-100-100000143mpk-a2336716.html

https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/AMD-Ryzen-5-4650G-4-3GHz-So-AM4-11MB-Cache--Tray-_1370228.html

In Croatia, the same Renoir APU is more or less available from January until today.

https://www.adm.hr/cpu-amd-ryzen-5-pro-4650g-tray-cooler-s-am4/66453/product/

The difference in retail prices is a bit unexpected, but hey i have no objection i paid 197euro.

Mindfactory 222euro

Austria 260euro

Croatia ADM 1500kn=197euro

 

[Shivansps]

The thing is, those models are OEM-only they should not be leaking into retail channels at this speed.