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Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

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LightningZ71

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The last aPU that had even a hint of being compute oriented was Bristol Ridge. It retained the full throughput capabilities of its GPU cores with respect to single and double precision math, supposedly at the behest of one specific volume purchaser.

It hasn't exactly been know for being an amazing sales success.
 

Thunder 57

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Currently, Vega is significantly more power efficient of the two. RDNA2 should improve the situation, but some additional optimization needs to be done. That being said, I personally believe RDNA in an APU is a mistake. The APU should be compute oriented.
Certainly not in the desktop space. RDNA blows away Vega efficiency wise. I get what you are saying regarding Picasso though. It was impressive to see what they did with Vega there regarding power. I think Vega scaled poorly with CU's. Compare Vega 56 to Vega 64. Vega 64 used 85W more for just 8 extra CU's and about 100MHz.
 
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Shivansps

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I just saw Fightsimulator 2020 results with 4750Gs and 3400Gs, what a massacre, this has to be only of the very few games that you cant play on a APU.

If this is a sign of whats is to come, it is looking very very bad.
 
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Kenmitch

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I just saw Fightsimulator 2020 results with 4750Gs and 3400Gs, what a massacre, this has to be only of the very few games that you cant play on a APU.

If this is a sign of whats is to come, it is looking very very bad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/icku1i
What does Intel offer in the price range? Performance?

I don't know if I'd want to even try it on a APU if even a 2080Ti struggle's. I guess to each his own.

This has got to be one of the worse optimized game this year. Everything on crap quality, the game looks terrible, 20 fps.

2080Ti does 50 FPS at 1080p.
 

Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/icku1i
What does Intel offer in the price range? Performance?

I don't know if I'd want to even try it on a APU if even a 2080Ti struggle's. I guess to each his own.
Whats Intel has to do with any of that?

And btw, i would not be so sure about optimization, this game looks very very good, the problem is we have stagnated in dGPU perf for a while now.
 
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LightningZ71

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Well, they are, effectively, their only competitors in the space (x86-64, integrated GPU). If AMD is currently besting their only competitor, then they are the market leader in tech. We can't bash them for getting it wrong when no one else is CURRENTLY doing it "better".
 
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Shivansps

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Well, they are, effectively, their only competitors in the space (x86-64, integrated GPU). If AMD is currently besting their only competitor, then they are the market leader in tech. We can't bash them for getting it wrong when no one else is CURRENTLY doing it "better".
Under that logic it would be fine to having Intel quad cores in 2020 if Ryzen had no existed.
 

Thunder 57

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I just saw Fightsimulator 2020 results with 4750Gs and 3400Gs, what a massacre, this has to be only of the very few games that you cant play on a APU.

If this is a sign of whats is to come, it is looking very very bad.
Well considering the new Xbox has RDNA2 and more CU's than a 5700 XT, I am not overly surprised.
 
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LightningZ71

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Mar 10, 2017
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With no competitors, would we really be any the wiser?

As for MSFS, there are some significant optimization issues with the display engine. There are a couple of spots in the game where, due to some sort of issue with occluded polygons not being excluded, it absolutely tanks frame rates on the fasts systems out there. The whole game, while beautiful, still needs a non-trivial amount of work. I have no issue with an iGPU having problems with it is 2080tis are bogging down with it...
 

Thibsie

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Apr 25, 2017
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Whats Intel has to do with any of that?

And btw, i would not be so sure about optimization, this game looks very very good, the problem is we have stagnated in dGPU perf for a while now.
What does optimization have to do with graphics quality?
Seems to you keep moaning about the same thing every 3 posts or so.
Anything else to say btw ? Just for a change ?
 

Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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What does optimization have to do with graphics quality?
Seems to you keep moaning about the same thing every 3 posts or so.
Anything else to say btw ? Just for a change ?
It looks like some people are on the defensive today for no reason. OK, read that again, think for a moment the reasons as to why someone may argue poor fps, read again and reply.
And dont forget that MSFS is using tech to a level that was never used before.
 

Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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Well considering the new Xbox has RDNA2 and more CU's than a 5700 XT, I am not overly surprised.
Exactly.

As for MSFS, there are some significant optimization issues with the display engine. There are a couple of spots in the game where, due to some sort of issue with occluded polygons not being excluded, it absolutely tanks frame rates on the fasts systems out there. The whole game, while beautiful, still needs a non-trivial amount of work. I have no issue with an iGPU having problems with it is 2080tis are bogging down with it...
There is probably some issue here and there, that always happens. But MSFS is one of the first next gens titles and it is using AI tech to levels that was never attempted to create those enviroments. This is only possible because next gen consoles are going to be running some really good hardware, and for a first example this is looking bad for our old gen hardware overall. this was bound to happen eventually.
 

maddie

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Jul 18, 2010
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I just saw Fightsimulator 2020 results with 4750Gs and 3400Gs, what a massacre, this has to be only of the very few games that you cant play on a APU.

If this is a sign of whats is to come, it is looking very very bad.
I'm actually impressed. Have you ever run the last FS sim on your system? Framerates are generally low for most systems. This is not your average shooter.
 

Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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Then why would you expect a APU to be able to tackle it when a 2080Ti struggles?
You are missing the point, this is the first of the next-gen games, and is a huge red flag right there, is not about this specific game, think about the others.

I'm actually impressed. Have you ever run the last FS sim on your system? Framerates are generally low for most systems. This is not your average shooter.
Im running it right now... +30fps on 1080p medium on my RX570. This is exactly what i expected to happen with next gen games. You are impressed of what? that they cant run it? Is not about this specific game, its about this being one of the first AAA games developed for the next gen, lets hope other games arent so crazy on requeriments, but with consoles having a RX5700 built-in what you would expect to happen? We really stagnated on GPU performance the last few years, and not only on APUs IGPs.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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I read into that series of games. They've always been performance hogs according to old posts, even for the game that came out prior to this one almost 20 years ago. I still don't see why anyone would sit in front of a computer pushing buttons in a game and do nothing but look out a window. I'm obviously not the target audience here. But some of these people with their giant setups that replicate the cabin of a jetliner... money I'd spend on other things.

@Shivansps Pretty sure those APUs use Vega graphics. In any case I agree with you that the current selection of dgpus is no match for any next gen games and consumers such as yourself who do game a lot have been squeezed of their money while being given subpar improvements every couple of years.
 

NeoLuxembourg

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
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Im running it right now... +30fps on 1080p medium on my RX570. This is exactly what i expected to happen with next gen games. You are impressed of what? that they cant run it? Is not about this specific game, its about this being one of the first AAA games developed for the next gen, lets hope other games arent so crazy on requeriments, but with consoles having a RX5700 built-in what you would expect to happen? We really stagnated on GPU performance the last few years, and not only on APUs IGPs.
So, if a future AAA game will run just fine on this APU, will you finally stop with your bashing about this?

I mean, give us a clue if we will able to use this thread to get real information in the future or not.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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So, if a future AAA game will run just fine on this APU, will you finally stop with your bashing about this?

I mean, give us a clue if we will able to use this thread to get real information in the future or not.
What bashing? Trust me you will know when im bashing something, im not doing any of that.

I just said that MSFS is the first of new gen titles was masacring APUs, a clear sympton that we stagnated in gpu performance (all, not only igps) over the years and if this was a sign of whats to come, it was looking bad.

Sudenly everyone jumped on the defensive, when im don't even affirmed or demanded anything.
 
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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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It may be the "first of the next gen of "flight sims, but it certainly doesn't represent the whole pantheon of games or even game engines. MSFS, like most new AAA games, has performance issues. Those issues seem to be independent of the hardware available. When 3900X's with 2080s have massive frame rate dips, there's more going on than "the hardware isn't good enough". That's an issue with game engine performance scaling. That the difference in overall performance of the 4700 and a system with the "minimum" spec of an RX570 is so minimal, it tells you right there that something, somewhere isn't scaling properly.

I will conceed one very important thing with MSFS, it is VERY texture heavy. It absolutely churns through VRAM and moves a lot of data back and forth from system RAM to VRAM. Since APUs still don't use a full unified memory model, there is going to be a lot of duplication of data in RAM, and a lot of needless copying back and forth, further clogging up the memory bus. I can suggest that, if you are going to attempt to play a game like MSFS with an APU, memory tuning and size are going to be crucial in getting anywhere near playable performance.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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While it has the same CCX config, it has far, FAR greater memory bandwidth running at, what I can only assume is, a higher fabric clock. The advantages of having a huge L3 are vastly diminished when data can get to you from RAM that quickly.
 
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