Your Car is (or will be) Spying on You (WITH POLL)

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,347
19,511
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Who?s Watching?
By ERIC PETERS

Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.

EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.

But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.

Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.

If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.

Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.

The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.

Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?

It's all for our own good.

But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
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well, my next planned car purchase will be a 1960's Continental, and I'll keep my 1997 Town Car as long as it keeps ticking (hopefully forever - i've seen these cars with 400k on the clock), and even if something throws a wrench in those plans I won't be buying new. . . .

So it doesn't / won't affect me for a very long time after 2008.

I'm still against it.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
I'm sure people will find a way to get around it. I know I'll be interested in cracking it.

 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
I'm entirely against the involuntary broadcasting or data collection of one's personal driving data and habits to or by anyone. :thumbsdown:

 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,742
18,928
136
Originally posted by: DougK62
I'm sure people will find a way to get around it. I know I'll be interested in cracking it.

I'm in the same boat... wonder if they'll try to pass legislation to criminalize the removal of these things.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,347
19,511
146
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
big whoop

So you like the idea that everything you do in your car and every where you go can be monitored by the government and car companies?
 

jhayx7

Platinum Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,226
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0
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: DougK62
I'm sure people will find a way to get around it. I know I'll be interested in cracking it.

I'm in the same boat... wonder if they'll try to pass legislation to criminalize the removal of these things.

No question about it.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,347
19,511
146
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.

Compairing this to the Vchip is absurd.
 

lagvoid

Senior member
Dec 4, 2000
732
1
81
I'll be keeping my car for a long time if they implement the automated ticketing system.
 

jhayx7

Platinum Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,226
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.

Compairing this to the Vchip is absurd.

How many "could's" and "if's" are in this article? This article is absurd.

/thread
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,347
19,511
146
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.

Compairing this to the Vchip is absurd.

How many "could's" and "if's" are in this article? This article is absurd.

/thread

Um, no. The vchip records nothing. Sends nothing.

This device is already used in rental cars to monitor activity and location. No ifs and coulds. Reality.

The fact that a government mandated box in your car recording your location and activity doesn't scare you is the absurdity here.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.

Compairing this to the Vchip is absurd.

How many "could's" and "if's" are in this article? This article is absurd.

/thread

The insurance industry has been working on this for over 10 years. In fact my sister was testing this for progressive in '96. There's nothing iffy about the intentions here, nor is there anything iffy about how ripe this would be for abuse.

Data like this would reveal where someone works, lives, shops, where their kids go to school...you name it. It's information that's ripe for abuse, not to mention makes someone very vulnerable when either hackers or other undesirables get a hold of it.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Hmmm...I wonder if this will solve the mystery of the "old person with the stuck accelerator".
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Yay for another use for technology to inconvenience the lives of law abiding citizens. Like the gun laws, this will only affect those who stay within the bounds of the law. The criminals will drive vehicles without this system obviously. Thank goodness I don't drive. :D

Now there are some bona-fide uses that would come in handy. Carjacking is one. When a vehicle is stolen not only it could be traced, it could be disabled instantly. Car safes would probably become popular for people to lock up valuables - as they would be the only reason for jacking or b&e.

For those tampering with the system, the car would probably disable itself and it would take a lot of work to get it running again. Or it could run with a backup beacon sending the location and notice to insurance companies and lien holders that the owner is taking a big risk. Yes the opportunities to abuse it would be great.

You know in the unique world of investigation one must have license to (legally) plant a bug, tap, or whatever but ANYONE can purchase counter surveillance - the hardware that tells you you're being watched. :)
 

jhayx7

Platinum Member
Oct 1, 2005
2,226
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jhayx7
Oh noes! Big Brother!

More media fear. Just like the V-Chip when it was introduced into TV sets. Oh no! The government will know what we will be watching! Maybe they can see us through the TV! I am all for it, if it will help determine fault in accidents.

Compairing this to the Vchip is absurd.

How many "could's" and "if's" are in this article? This article is absurd.

/thread

Um, no. The vchip records nothing. Sends nothing.

This device is already used in rental cars to monitor activity and location. No ifs and coulds. Reality.

The fact that a government mandated box in your car recording your location and activity doesn't scare you is the absurdity here.


Yes, it is absurd for the government to know when I go to the grocery store, flea market, mall, etc.... :roll:

My point is that this article is more media fear than anything; when the V-chip was released the media made a big stink about the government "could" know what you are watching (we all know now that it is not true). Insurance companies will not have access to these records, period. There will be mandates like HIPPA in health insurance, so they will not have access to data that directly correlates rates to a persons habits, that is illegal. Next, how can law enforcement ticket you for speeding unless they have a complex system setup to know the exact GPS cords. of every speed limit in the US? That's about as likely as Bush passing Public Speaking 101 in college. Also, how are they going to extract the data from this "black box"?
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
big whoop

So you like the idea that everything you do in your car and every where you go can be monitored by the government and car companies?
It's not the automakers or government I'm worried about, it's the insurance companies (fvcking crooks) and automated-ticketing cops that concern me. :|
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
It's already here. My 06 impala SS has an EDR, it is only supposed to be activated in the event of a crash, but who knows the technology is in the car they may already be recording my daily driving habits.

I have already heard reports of people hot rodding and making quick manuvers setting off the crash sensor gyro's and activating an onstar response. An onstar rep come's over the car phone and ask's "Have you been in an accident? Do you need EMS?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,578
982
126
I think the black box could be a good thing so long as the information isn't used to hand out tickets or for surveillance. I'd have no problem with them just being used for accident investigation though.
 

pinion9

Banned
May 5, 2005
1,201
0
0
In order to receive a ticket, vehicle alone isn't sufficient. You need to prove who was driving. If I let my friend borrow my car and he gets pulled over, I don't get the ticket. I'm sure there would be many checks and balances with this so your data aren't sold. Also, who cares if the government knows I occasionally hit a Wal-Mart? There are 300 million other people in the country, all with lives probably a little more interesting than mine.

Why is everyone paranoid? If you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. For those of you driving without a seatbelt, it is illegal. Drive with your seat belt, drive under the speed limit, drive safely, you have no need to worry.

Also, please remember that driving is a government regulated privilege, not a right.
 

pinion9

Banned
May 5, 2005
1,201
0
0
Originally posted by: loup garou
It's not the automakers or government I'm worried about, it's the insurance companies (fvcking crooks) and automated-ticketing cops that concern me. :|

Insurance companies abusing it? How? You are paying them to keep you insured. If you were speeding at the time you hit the dog and went off the road, why should you be covered? It was your own fault.