YOU be the manager (Updated 7/25)

[Vdubchaos]

It sounds like there is very poor communication in the company which is always a bad thing. The employees job is to do, not to manage. The manager's job is to manage, which was not done.

And chances are, will not be done (proper anyways).....

Up next, jerk reaction

:biggrin:

 

[Ns1]

Your fault for not being more explicit but employee is clearly not a go getter and does not show upward mobility

 

[dougp]

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?"

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week.

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time.

If he's salaried, and getting his work done, then he is legitimately leaving on time and I don't see why this is a problem. Just my opinion - the question is, if he has too much work, will he stay after and finish or will he wait on it until the AM.

 

[Slew Foot]

Is he getting all the work done appropriately? If hes smart enough to do all of his tasks in 7 hours or less, why should be punished by more work? Unless youre going to be paying him more.

 

[Aharami]

I am like the OP's employee. I finish my work super fast and then I get bored. First couple years I asked for more work, but was not rewarded with equal compensation increase. So why should I do more work than my coworkers if I'm not gonna be paid more than them? It's not my fault they are slower than me.

 

[Ns1]

One more thing @OP

On my first day of my last job my boss told me "it's up to you to find more work if you have bandwidth". Maybe a similar sentence to new hires would remedy this situation in the future.

 

[darkxshade]

Another point I want to bring up. Does he work in a team? If there are for example 4 members and he's actually doing > 25% of the work while taking all this extra time off while the other 3 are barely eeking out their share of the work then I would say good for him, he deserves it.

 

[Scarpozzi]

If he does what he does well, I still wouldn't let it slide. I'd tell him your time expectations and make them clear.....there's no need to be a jerk about it. Just let him know that he's being paid to be there despite the workload. If he takes more than a 15 minute break outside of his lunch schedule, he should have to record it as time off. (sick, vacation, or no pay leave)

This is most important for HR....if he were injured on the job or outside of the job during the day, the company needs records of when he's working.

 

[kranky]

His work is of average quality and timeliness. Sometimes makes careless mistakes, other times does very impressive work.

Is this a parody of the motorcycle brake-check thread where the correct answer is that both parties are morons?

Yes, the guy is definitely dishonest and is working the system. But if it took you this long to notice and you had no idea of his actual work efficiency, what sort of load he could handle and how many hours he wasted over the years you are piss poor at your job.

Not a parody.

I'm sure that's what he's thinking, though. A professional with 10 years experience should do as little as possible unless someone's looking over his shoulder.

I'm not a babysitter. I have as much work to do as he and the others in the group. I don't stand at the door and see when they come in, I don't pull their badge times, I don't time their lunches. They get paid a lot of money and are to act as professionals.

It's quite possible that attitude is outdated but I focus my energies on the things I get measured on, and trust the others in the group are grownups and given their experience they know what they are expected to do. During the quarterly reviews I always ask if they are OK with the workload they have, he always said it was OK. I never imagined "OK" could mean "I need more work to keep me busy."

 

[kranky]

Another point I want to bring up. Does he work in a team? If there are for example 4 members and he's actually doing > 25% of the work while taking all this extra time off while the other 3 are barely eeking out their share of the work then I would say good for him, he deserves it.

No, not the case.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I am like the OP's employee. I finish my work super fast and then I get bored. First couple years I asked for more work, but was not rewarded with equal compensation increase. So why should I do more work than my coworkers if I'm not gonna be paid more than them? It's not my fault they are slower than me.

Where I work, if you even HINT at "more work" my boss will come to you every hour and bury you under an avalanche of work and responsibility.....FOR MONTHS.

Until you completely break/explode.

Then he will watch at the sideline and laugh at you.

In many Corporate environment, those that go up and beyond get 0 recognition, don't advance....and at times shoot themselves in the foot by doing so. While those that don't do shit flourish.

It's not fair and ass backwards....and yes I know that there is companies that do it proper.

 

[Ns1]

I am like the OP's employee. I finish my work super fast and then I get bored. First couple years I asked for more work, but was not rewarded with equal compensation increase. So why should I do more work than my coworkers if I'm not gonna be paid more than them? It's not my fault they are slower than me.

Often times you don't get rewarded for shit automatically, you have to fucking fight for it. And when you fight for it you mention the millions of times you went above and beyond. And if THAT fails your company clearly doesn't give a fuck about good work and you move onto a company that does.

 

[Vdubchaos]

His work is of average quality and timeliness. Sometimes makes careless mistakes, other times does very impressive work.

What's the problem then?

I'm sure that's what he's thinking, though. A professional with 10 years experience should do as little as possible unless someone's looking over his shoulder.

You have 0 optimism......and you are only making the problem bigger by "trying to win" or something.

I'm not a babysitter. I have as much work to do as he and the others in the group. I don't stand at the door and see when they come in, I don't pull their badge times, I don't time their lunches. They get paid a lot of money and are to act as professionals.

You don't, but yet you DID. Hmmmmm

Sounds to me like you are looking for a problem. When you look, you will ALWAYS find.

It's quite possible that attitude is outdated but I focus my energies on the things I get measured on, and trust the others in the group are grownups and given their experience they know what they are expected to do. During the quarterly reviews I always ask if they are OK with the workload they have, he always said it was OK. I never imagined "OK" could mean "I need more work to keep me busy."

No one with even half a brain will come to you and say "I need more work"

Remember that

And asking such question during review is worthless....not exactly smart.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I've spent some time reading books at my desk.

Leaving early would be bad - I might miss something important.

 

[darkxshade]

Does the OP even have more work to hand out? If so, then give it to him and case closed. I mean in the end, this is actually one of the good problems to have unless you prefer he's overworked and staying late that you need to hire additional help.

 

[Ns1]

No one with even half a brain will come to you and say "I need more work"

Incorrect. Driven individuals will.

 

[KeithTalent]

Incorrect. Driven individuals will.

This.

KT

 

[Vdubchaos]

Incorrect. Driven individuals will.

Yes and I've seen my share of these "driven individual" out of work due to their actions.

OR berried with work.....no life left.

It's managers job to keep people busy/make sure they have work.

Give it 5-10 years and come back and talk to me. Most of the places I've been at driven individuals end up "suckers".....and looked down upon.

I know, it shouldn't be this way....but it's what I've seen.

 

[dougp]

Often times you don't get rewarded for shit automatically, you have to fucking fight for it. And when you fight for it you mention the millions of times you went above and beyond. And if THAT fails your company clearly doesn't give a fuck about good work and you move onto a company that does.

You're working in the wrong environment or for a bad manager, sorry. At my last job, my manager and director both fought to get me a raise - my CTO even supported it and HR didn't want to budge. They lost me to a company that gave me a better raise and has better benefits, and they still can't replace me - but the fact is, I never had to ask for them to do it. They saw the value in me as an employee. I've had this happen at several places, where my managers provide sufficient recognition and compensation for my effort.

Often times, employees learn that their manager/company doesn't care but they're happy with where they are at, so they just don't seek to achieve or go beyond. They've lost motivation/drive or whatever you want to call it, but I would hardly blame it on them 100%. Companies are out to do what's best for them, and often times they'll break an employee because of it and then just sweep them under the rug, blaming the employee for their attitude.

 

[KeithTalent]

Yes and I've seen my share of these "driven individual" out of work due to their actions.

OR berried with work.....no life left.

It's managers job to keep people busy/make sure they have work.

What field are you in?

KT

 

[Ns1]

You're working in the wrong environment or for a bad manager, sorry. At my last job, my manager and director both fought to get me a raise - my CTO even supported it and HR didn't want to budge. They lost me to a company that gave me a better raise and has better benefits, and they still can't replace me - but the fact is, I never had to ask for them to do it. They saw the value in me as an employee. I've had this happen at several places, where my managers provide sufficient recognition and compensation

What I'm hearing is you weren't rewarded for your hard work and you didn't fight for it.

 

[dougp]

Incorrect. Driven individuals will.

Driven individuals will come up with their own ideas and process improvements to streamline tasks for themselves and a team. People who want nothing more than to be told what to do will ask for more work.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

What's the problem then?




You have 0 optimism......and you are only making the problem bigger by "trying to win" or something.



You don't, but yet you DID. Hmmmmm

Sounds to me like you are looking for a problem. When you look, you will ALWAYS find.



No one with even half a brain will come to you and say "I need more work"

Remember that

And asking such question during review is worthless....not exactly smart.

The only reason someone will ask that is if they have an expectation that they will get paid more for doing more work. My people ask me that from time to time and I'm happy to give them more work and more pay if both are available. To me, that's only fair.

I do NOT want to build an environment where people feel like their rewards are set in stone regardless of how much they work. What's the incentive to contribute more then?

 

[Vdubchaos]

You're working in the wrong environment or for a bad manager, sorry. At my last job, my manager and director both fought to get me a raise - my CTO even supported it and HR didn't want to budge. They lost me to a company that gave me a better raise and has better benefits, and they still can't replace me - but the fact is, I never had to ask for them to do it. They saw the value in me as an employee. I've had this happen at several places, where my managers provide sufficient recognition and compensation for my effort.

Often times, employees learn that their manager/company doesn't care but they're happy with where they are at, so they just don't seek to achieve or go beyond. They've lost motivation/drive or whatever you want to call it, but I would hardly blame it on them 100%. Companies are out to do what's best for them, and often times they'll break an employee because of it and then just sweep them under the rug, blaming the employee for their attitude.

ding ding ding

 

[Vdubchaos]

The only reason someone will ask that is if they have an expectation that they will get paid more for doing more work. My people ask me that from time to time and I'm happy to give them more work and more pay if both are available. To me, that's only fair.

I do NOT want to build an environment where people feel like their rewards are set in stone regardless of how much they work. What's the incentive to contribute more then?

But you my friend also have morals and common sense.

Many managers I've seen don't think this way.

And in most cases it's never fair........and raise is not even REMOTELY on their mind hehe

And lot of companies don't create/have ANY incentive to work more.....put in extra effort etc