YOU be the manager (Updated 7/25)

[Anonemous]

So the take home message is:

A) Do mediocre work and get by (until you get laid off) or your company shuts down due to complacency. OR

B) Work your ass off for your corporate masters for a slim chance to get promoted and see how people who have less experience than you get hired with higher pay. At which point you jump ship.

 

[Vdubchaos]

driven people find a new door, complacent people stay put.

Some people are perfectly happy with what they have.

And some always strive for more and more.

Nothing wrong with either. Whatever floats your boat.

If you think I or others here haven't thought like you/had the same outlook, you would be very wrong.

Many of us been there/done that.

 

[rudeguy]

You and countless others.

I see SO many driven people come thru the door and try so hard ONLY to be hit with a BIG HAMMER right on the head.

There is a way to do this kind of thing. You can't come in acting like you are better than everyone. If done with humility, its a very positive thing.

 

[Ruptga]

There are almost as many different opinions as to what constitutes "professional behavior" as there are "professionals." What expectations were directly communicated to him?

Personally, unless I am told otherwise, I expect salaried workers to leave for the day when their day's work is done. As I see it, they made an agreement with the employer that they would be paid X for producing exactly Y amount of work.

If I were salaried I would never say that I don't have enough work unless I was looking for a promotion or a raise. Any time a salaried worker takes on more work without an increase in their salary they are effectively lowering their own wage; why would anyone ever do that voluntarily?

 

[Ns1]

Some people are perfectly happy with what they have.

And some always strive for more and more.

Nothing wrong with either. Whatever floats your boat.

At least we can agree on one thing

 

[darkxshade]

driven people find a new door, complacent people stay put.

Due to my experience with my first job, my mentality soon went from being driven to working just hard enough to be on the top of my peers but if I had any more spare time or productivity after that, I sure as hell not going to bring it up. So at the least I had a trump card during negotiations about raises and promotions without having to take on more responsibilities. I learned that taking it on first is a foolish move since your boss might get too comfortable with it and just not take any measure to reward you with it.

 

[DrPizza]

How does he compare to other employees doing the same thing? Or to employees prior to him who had his role in the company? If he's doing the same amount of work, then those others are just as unproductive, except they got away with it.

Sounds like he's not a go-getter. Else, he realizes that there is very little room for upward mobility/significant raises for doing significantly more work than was expected for the agreed upon salary.

 

[Gooberlx2]

I guess it depends on how your work environment/his job is structured. At my lab, for example, we really don't care so long as your work gets done, on time, accurately, and you're around when people need you around. Other than that, we have people that take short days and/or long lunches all the time. Keeps the sanity sane, morale high, and allows people to schedule life alongside work when needed (like doctor appts, etc..). We do inform those who need to know of our plans though. Like, "Hey Bob, I have to run out for a bit to..."

But that's our lab, and it certainly doesn't work for every place. If there's more work to be done, he certainly should have had the sense and initiative to use his time productively. That said, if this was the first time you had a discussion about it, I'd consider it his warning and wouldn't place anything in a permanent record. I probably would take the lack of effort, initiative and professionalism into account for his annual review when considering any bonus raises over standard CoL, along with any concerted efforts to improve.

 

[Midwayman]

If his work is fine in quantity and quality I would leave the guy alone. Clearly he's not looking to move up in the organization with his attitude, but the world needs workers too.

Asking for more work on salary is akin to asking to be made to stay late every night or get laid off. I can't imagine a situation where I had work and asking for more would be a good idea unless its some high profile project gunning for promotion. The only normal scenario I would expect someone to come and ask for more is where they have nothing on their plate and haven't been giving direction, but that's very different than finishing in 7hrs.

 

[Viper GTS]

Part of the reward of having an exempt job is the flexibility to do what you described.

It's been many years since anyone has cared what time I showed up, left, or how long I was gone for lunch.

If he's accomplishing what is expected of him and he's around when people need him you're not going to achieve anything but piss him off by treating him like that.

If you want to control his hours make him an hourly employee.

Edit:

None of this to say that you don't have every right to tell him to be there 8 hours a day, but if it becomes an issue he'll likely leave - He's obviously not the motivated type so he will find somewhere else to play the role he wants to.

Viper GTS

 

[Naeeldar]

Not all work places are like that. In my first job, several people had left including my immediate manager who I were friends with and I covered for them by taking on their workload. What did the VP do? Well, he didn't give me a raise or any recognition but he was happy that I was holding everything together so that he can hire replacements with a higher starting salaries than me. He did promote some other members of other groups(favortism). I resigned shortly after.

Coming out of college, I was very driven and hard working and it bit me in the ass. It was a great lesson being disenchanted with the fact that working hard and taking on more responsibilities guarantees any upward mobility.

Even if the previous boss failed to realize the value you provided, the experience alone is worth a lot as you interview at your next company. Most good managers will not waste an employee of that talent and will fight to keep you. Just because one time you didn't get paid for it doesn't mean you don't do it in the future - it's a good way to miss a huge opportunity with the right boss. I've been at my company for 7 years, 5 (3 long term) bosses now, always ask for more work/special projects etc... Only one boss in particular did I not get extra in the long run from due to my performance. The rest it all paid out 10x over that it made that extra work with the one boss worthwhile.

Oh and for that matter the extra work with the 1 boss who didn't give me credit, actually allowed me to move into a new department because another manager recognized the value I provided - so it paid for itself as well but in a different manner.

 

[Ns1]

Even if the previous boss failed to realize the value you provided, the experience alone is worth a lot as you interview at your next company. Most good managers will not waste an employee of that talent and will fight to keep you. Just because one time you didn't get paid for it doesn't mean you don't do it in the future - it's a good way to miss a huge opportunity with the right boss. I've been at my company for 7 years, 5 (3 long term) bosses now, always ask for more work/special projects etc... Only one boss in particular did I not get extra in the long run from due to my performance. The rest it all paid out 10x over that it made that extra work with the one boss worthwhile.

Oh and for that matter the extra work with the 1 boss who didn't give me credit, actually allowed me to move into a new department because another manager recognized the value I provided - so it paid for itself as well but in a different manner.

So much this.

 

[Perknose]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos
OR berried with work.....no life left.

What field are you in?

KT

WHOOSH!

You seem like you want to be an adversary, not an employee. That's fine, but that attitude doesn't work everywhere.

KT

I dub Vdub John BitterBerries :biggrin:

 

[KeithTalent]

WHOOSH!



I dub Vdub John BitterBerries :biggrin:

I knew I could could count on you Perk.

KT

 

[Puppies04]

I have no issue with the guy in question apart from 2 points you need to raise with him.

1. Just because he can complete his work faster than others is not a reason to take long lunches and leave early, if you noticed it you can bet his peers did and this can quickly set a bad precedent in the office which will end up with others doing the same and their work output falling.

2. The way you describe it (and I am aware that this is just your side of story) his attitude was a tad blase. He needs to be a bit more serious when faced with that kind of situation.


As has already been pointed out by other posters this really comes down to whether he really thought he was doing anything wrong. It doesn't sound like you implemented any procedures to cater for the fact that different members of staff will have different work rates. That is your failing as a manager, this guy was keeping his head down and I can understand why, if it suddenly becomes known that this guy is to blame for going to you and saying that he finishes his work early every day then he could quickly become the most hated person in the office.

 

[QueBert]

My friend worked for Motorola, she'd be given a project and X amount of days to finish it. if they gave her 10 and she finished in it 6, she'd take 4 days off. This was just how it worked, isn't that how most salary positions are? You do your work, when you're done if it's not quitting time yet, you still get to leave? You're not being paid hourly so when you finish your assigned work you get the hell out.

 

[Phoenix86]

This is basically the Office Space scenario. If he busts his butt 8 hours per day and the company sells a few more widgets he doesn't get anything out of it. Additionally, since he is salaried and may have to work EXTRA to meet the new demands he still doesn't get anything more out of it (putting aside the no-OT thing for a moment).

Until you started monitoring his hours you were happy with his output - this could have been going on for the last 2.5 years. If you had no problems with his previous work product regardless of hours worked per year then I wouldn't hold it against him. He was happy and you were happy - you got exactly the work you assigned and paid him for. Accounting for worker efficiency is the managers job.

With that said, I would watch out at YOUR next review because you could have squeezed some more out of your direct reports!

Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

 

[BUTCH1]

Potential problem if others notice this and start to wine about it, possibly to someone over your head and then you take the hit for it, give him some "keep busy" work...

 

[PenguinPower]

My friend worked for Motorola, she'd be given a project and X amount of days to finish it. if they gave her 10 and she finished in it 6, she'd take 4 days off. This was just how it worked, isn't that how most salary positions are? You do your work, when you're done if it's not quitting time yet, you still get to leave? You're not being paid hourly so when you finish your assigned work you get the hell out.

Ok. I've said it before, and I'll define again...salaried or hourly does not matter. That is a method of being paid. Everyone here is talking about exempt or non-exempt. Specifically that refers to whether one is exempt or not from the provisions of the FLSA.

That being said, yes, you are correct. Exempt employees are paid for their output, not for their hours. However, employers can stipulate that the work must be performed within a certain time frame/period.

 

[SunnyD]

It's quite possible that attitude is outdated but I focus my energies on the things I get measured on, and trust the others in the group are grownups and given their experience they know what they are expected to do. During the quarterly reviews I always ask if they are OK with the workload they have, he always said it was OK. I never imagined "OK" could mean "I need more work to keep me busy."

So what you're saying is you care more about things that are going to score you brownie points with whomever is up the ladder from you in order to score that juicy raise/bonus/promotion than you do paying attention to the people you manage who probably attempted to do the same thing but realized fairly quickly on that their effort was going unnoticed because you were too damn busy thinking about yourself?

I think I found the problem here.

 

[Ns1]

...people you manage who probably attempted to do the same thing but realized fairly quickly on that their effort was going unnoticed because you were too damn busy thinking about yourself?

if they were doing the same thing they would have asked for more work instead of going home early.

 

[SunnyD]

if they were doing the same thing they would have asked for more work instead of going home early.

You quoted it, but you didn't read it? Or you just didn't comprehend it?

 

[Ns1]

You quoted it, but you didn't read it? Or you just didn't comprehend it?

Your quote reads like this (italicized/strikethrough modifications are mine)

So what you're saying is you care more about things that are going to score you brownie points with whomever is up the ladder from you in order to score that juicy raise/bonus/promotion than you do paying attention to the people you manage who probably attempted to do the same thing things that are going to score them brownie points in order to score that juicy raise/bonus/promotion but realized fairly quickly on that their effort was going unnoticed because you were too damn busy thinking about yourself?

so my response was, if his employee was truly trying to do things to earn himself brownie points to get a raise/bonus/promotion, going home without asking if there was more work for him is not the way to do it.


so I don't know, did I misunderstand your post?

 

[yottabit]

Part of the reward of having an exempt job is the flexibility to do what you described.

It's been many years since anyone has cared what time I showed up, left, or how long I was gone for lunch.

If he's accomplishing what is expected of him and he's around when people need him you're not going to achieve anything but piss him off by treating him like that.

If you want to control his hours make him an hourly employee.

+1, although I realize this isn't the stance at all companies

Also bear in mind that if there's work that can be done from home or mobile then to exercise caution when accusing/approaching someone... obviously this wasn't the case with this employee but I've known people who were hardly ever around the office that were extremely productive because they chose to do their work elsewhere

 

[Ns1]

Also bear in mind that if there's work that can be done from home or mobile then to exercise caution when accusing/approaching someone... obviously this wasn't the case with this employee but I've known people who were hardly ever around the office that were extremely productive because they chose to do their work elsewhere

I'm part of this camp. I usually roll into the office around 930-10am if there's no 9am meetings. Take a lunch (30 mins - 2 hours), leave around 5-7 depending on meetings/questions/etc.

Go home, have dinner, then work another 2-4 hours at home at night. Works out well (for me) because we have offshore resources that I can respond to via email and working hours are fairly flexible.