<< Rison: Works though! I don't recall any planes hitting tall building over here... >>
Come now...Irish terrorists aren't terrorists? I do suppose they're more polite and settled down now but they're far from finished...
<< Just curious...most people from Iranian descent that I know call themselves Persian and not Iranian..seriously just wondering..whatsupwifthatwillis? >>
I think they're proud of their ethnicity as they're one of the few Middle Eastern ethnicities that didn't get lumped in together with Arab during the Muslim conquests...
<< I wish I lived where there were no ignorant americans
>>OMG, you showed your face here again? I though last time after you acted like an @sshole and everybody flamed ya, you quit coming here. Oh well, you don't seem like you have changed...
peace
sean
<< Yikes! Iran says its military is ready for the US >>
Translation: All the white flags are cleaned and pressed. All the Iranian soldiers have been taught how to say "I surrender" in English.
Calm down Pers. Thes BBS is full of @ssholes. But there's nothing you can do about it and if you really get that pissed from reading somebodies post(reasonable or not) maybe you need to take a few minutes away from AT. The real life is full of a lot of @ssholes too and if you go off on them like you did here, then you will never progress beyond them. You got to live with it and be better than them.]
I admit i sounded a bit wroth and upset, but that was only my initial reaction. I am typically a very quiet guy, and comments like these (i have heard in real life a million times) usual go unanswered. Being fed up with people "who are just joking," i guess i just lashed out.
So let me get this right, it is politically incorrect to make fun of any minority groups, except the Middle Easterners? - (i don't know if you consider Canadians and Europeans as minorities, but i notice people on these forums don't like them much either?)
I admit i sounded a bit wroth and upset, but that was only my initial reaction. I am typically a very quiet guy, and comments like these (i have heard in real life a million times) usual go unanswered. Being fed up with people "who are just joking," i guess i just lashed out.
So let me get this right, it is politically incorrect to make fun of any minority groups, except the Middle Easterners? - (i don't know if you consider Canadians and Europeans as minorities, but i notice people on these forums don't like them much either?)
Actually I think most of us on the forums like Europeans and Canadiens... we really rib the Canadiens though, kind of like you kid your brother or something.
<< go do something productive for yourself and see a dentist! >>
LOL! Damn that was weak! I though you yanks were supposed to be good at talking people down! Watch some more Jerry springer, it will educate you in your heritage.
There hasn't been IRA attacks over here for quite a long time. Most of the "events" seem to be going down inside Nothern Ireland. The French have got it right with their acts of forgiveness. Have there been much going on since then? nope! Does something happen when america "handles" a situation? everytime! Whos method is working?
Why does every american think the international choices are to either not go outside your border or to carpet bomb other nations. What about talking? The UK, German, French dialogue with Iran is going pretty well. They are pretty receptive. But the Americans have to go - they're an axis of evil, blah blah blah. The nazi situation has nothing of similarity with the middle east situation, except perhaps hte israeli occupation of Palestine. In fact the US seems to be strutting its military might just like the nazi war machine. I don't mind international action, but what the US is doing is mindless unilateralism without consulting anyone. Also, its probably not even the whole US cos everytime Bush goes and runs his mouth off, some one has to come on later and "clarify" what he meant.
Maverick, I gotta commend you for showing that at least there is some holding the US flag who doesn't resort to name calling. The thing is though The "Smart bombs" that are supposed to be so accurate, hardly get their targets. Theres been countless occassions of near misses and blatent misses resulting in vast numbers of innocent killings. And yes there is violence everywhere, but in schools here it kinda gets limited to some guy punching someone else and getting a weeks worth of detention, not mass killings and death sentences. True the US doesn't declare war for conquest, but it does everytime there is a financial interest.
Black Hawk down got pretty bad press over here with lots of critics calling it racist. cos it kinda shows americans going in for "selfless" reasons rather than to take care of a situation that had quite a bit to do with Conoco, Amoco, Chevron and Phillips.
<< We'd knock them back into the stone age.. which is about 50 years back their time. I remember when they took all the hostages back in the 70's. All of a sudden the Iranian Foriegn Exchange Students Disapeared along with all those nasty little black pubic hairs floating around in Hot Tubs and Jacuzzi's across our great nation. >>
ROTFLMAO!!!
Insane, you cannot talk to evil. It'll only only tell you things you want to hear. You also forgot that they kept our people as hostages for 444 days. BTW, why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower. Why should we listen to the french when they hate us and are opposed to our policies. Our objective is to make the world a more peaceful place for commerce and culture. THe Chinese understand it and they've kept quiet about us calling N. Korea an evil state. Why can't you sissies and pus*ies do the same? WHy do you want to be our equal when you're not?
<< Maverick, I gotta commend you for showing that at least there is some holding the US flag who doesn't resort to name calling. The thing is though The "Smart bombs" that are supposed to be so accurate, hardly get their targets. Theres been countless occassions of near misses and blatent misses resulting in vast numbers of innocent killings. And yes there is violence everywhere, but in schools here it kinda gets limited to some guy punching someone else and getting a weeks worth of detention, not mass killings and death sentences. True the US doesn't declare war for conquest, but it does everytime there is a financial interest.
>>
This was called in to question, and at the end of Desert Storm it was still deemed that smart bombs were 80% effective. The US doesn't have to spend massive amounts of money to use smart weapons to attack cities... we could just do it the WWII way and drop carpet bombs on everything... we actually chose to do daylight raids in WWII so that we could hit specific targets w/out harming a whole lot of civilians... you Brit guys thought that this was suicide, so you continued to fly night time missions which typically just bombed the hell out of anything and everything that you could.
Don't preach to us about misses with smart bombs when we go out of our way to avoid civilian casualties... our enemies are only too interested in INFLICTING civilian casualties whenever they can.
<< Insane, you cannot talk to evil. It'll only only tell you things you want to hear. You also forgot that they kept our people as hostages for 444 days. BTW, why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower. Why should we listen to the french when they hate us and are opposed to our policies. Our objective is to make the world a more peaceful place for commerce and culture. THe Chinese understand it and they've kept quiet about us calling N. Korea an evil state. Why can't you sissies and pus*ies do the same? WHy do you want to be our equal when you're not? >>
Make the world a better place? like that? LOL! No wonder you get attacked.
<< The UK, German, French dialogue with Iran is going pretty well. >>
Really. What have they accomplished?
<< In fact the US seems to be strutting its military might just like the nazi war machine. >>
Only someone with your advanced state of ignorance would make this comparison. But please try to explain it. It should make for another good laugh.
<< I don't mind international action, but what the US is doing is mindless unilateralism without consulting anyone. >>
So we didn't consult with and present evidence to over a hundred nations before we started in Afghanistan? And of course we're not discussing any future plans with anyone, right. Certainly not your PM for one. Do you think before you post?
<< "Smart bombs" that are supposed to be so accurate, hardly get their targets. Theres been countless occassions of near misses and blatent misses resulting in vast numbers of innocent killings. >>
Gee, you wouldn't be exaggerating just a little would you? There has been thousands of bombs dropped in Afghanistan. How many have gone astray to kill "vast numbers". Where is your proof. You don't have any. You're just running your c0ck holster.
<< True the US doesn't declare war for conquest, but it does everytime there is a financial interest. >>
Or when we have to bail some sorry ass European country out of trouble. I don't hear you running your mouth about that. Just say thank you, collect your nickel and got to work. Your goats are waiting.
This is how nice the British where to the Germans.
25. The RAF Bomber Command?s are raid on Dresden, conducted on the night of 13/14 February 1945, resulted in fires that did great damage to the city proper, particularly in the older and more densely built up areas.46 Early official Allied post-strike reports estimated that 85 per cent of the fully built-up city area was destroyed, that the old part of the city, which comprised the greater portion of the built-up areas was largely wiped out, that the majority of buildings in the inner suburbs was gutted, and that in the outer suburbs, few buildings were effected by the area bombing attack. Virtually all major public buildings appeared heavily gutted or severely damaged. Public utilities, and facilities such as slaughter houses, warehouses, and distribution centers, were severely affected.47 A very large number of the city?s industrial facilities were destroyed or severely damaged,48 with perhaps a four-fifth?s reduction in the productive capacity of the arms plants.49 Later British assessments, which were more conservative, concluded that 23 per cent of the city?s industrial buildings were seriously damaged and that 56 per cent of the non-industrial buildings (exclusive of dwellings) had been heavily damaged. Of the total number of dwelling units in the city proper, 78,000 were regarded as demolished, 27,70 temporarily uninhabitable but ultimately repairable, and 64,500 readily repairable from minor damage. This later assessment indicated that 80 per cent of the city?s housing units had undergone some degree of damage and that 50 per cent of the dwellings had been demolished or seriously damaged.50
27. Casualties among the Dresden populace were inevitably very heavy in consequence of the fires that swept over the city following the RAF area raid on the night of 13/14 February. In addition to its normal population, the city had experienced a heavy influx of refugees from the east and of evacuees from bombings in other areas, particularly from Berlin.52 The exact number of casualties from the Dresden bombings can never be firmly established.53 Contemporary British estimates were that from 8,200 to 16,400 persons were killed and that similar numbers of persons may have been seriously injured.54 Most of the latest German post-war estimates are that about 25,000 persons were killed and about 30,000 were wounded, virtually all of these being casualties from the RAF incendiary attack of 13/14 February.55 Although the latest available post-war accounts play up the ?terroristic? aspects of the Dresden bombings, it is significant that they accept much lower casualty figures than those circulated by the Germans immediately after the raids and, from time to time, in the years immediately following the war.56 The most distorted account of the Dresden bombings--one that may have become the basis of Communist propaganda against the Allies, particularly against the Americans, in recent years--was prepared by two former German general officers for the Historical Division, European Command (U.S.A.) in 1948.57 In this account, the number of dead from the Dresden bombings was declared to be 250,000. That this figure may be the probable number of dead, multiplied by ten for the sake of exaggeration, becomes apparent by comparing the weight of the Dresden bombings of 14-15 February 1945 with the total tonnages expanded by the Allies against the six other largest German cities (see Chart A) and by comparing the various estimates of the Dresden casualties with the best estimate of the total casualties suffered by the Germans from all Allied bombings during World War II.
City
Population
Killed
Percentage rate
Darmstadt
109,000
8,100
.075
Kassel
220,000
8,659
.039
Dresden
1,000,000
25,000
.025
Hamberg
1,738,000
41,800
.024
Wuppertal
400,000
5,219
.013
The British don't seem to mind bombing people back to the Stone Age when it suits there own needs. I don?t think Europeans have any place to talk when it comes to how the US deals with foreign policy. All you have to do is look back into your history books to see how well the European powers controlled the world. Don?t get me wrong I like the British they have been good allies, and probably will continue to be. But if you want to count up which Countries have dealt more death and destruction on the World I think our European friends would come out the winner.
25. The RAF Bomber Command?s are raid on Dresden, conducted on the night of 13/14 February 1945, resulted in fires that did great damage to the city proper, particularly in the older and more densely built up areas.46 Early official Allied post-strike reports estimated that 85 per cent of the fully built-up city area was destroyed, that the old part of the city, which comprised the greater portion of the built-up areas was largely wiped out, that the majority of buildings in the inner suburbs was gutted, and that in the outer suburbs, few buildings were effected by the area bombing attack. Virtually all major public buildings appeared heavily gutted or severely damaged. Public utilities, and facilities such as slaughter houses, warehouses, and distribution centers, were severely affected.47 A very large number of the city?s industrial facilities were destroyed or severely damaged,48 with perhaps a four-fifth?s reduction in the productive capacity of the arms plants.49 Later British assessments, which were more conservative, concluded that 23 per cent of the city?s industrial buildings were seriously damaged and that 56 per cent of the non-industrial buildings (exclusive of dwellings) had been heavily damaged. Of the total number of dwelling units in the city proper, 78,000 were regarded as demolished, 27,70 temporarily uninhabitable but ultimately repairable, and 64,500 readily repairable from minor damage. This later assessment indicated that 80 per cent of the city?s housing units had undergone some degree of damage and that 50 per cent of the dwellings had been demolished or seriously damaged.50
27. Casualties among the Dresden populace were inevitably very heavy in consequence of the fires that swept over the city following the RAF area raid on the night of 13/14 February. In addition to its normal population, the city had experienced a heavy influx of refugees from the east and of evacuees from bombings in other areas, particularly from Berlin.52 The exact number of casualties from the Dresden bombings can never be firmly established.53 Contemporary British estimates were that from 8,200 to 16,400 persons were killed and that similar numbers of persons may have been seriously injured.54 Most of the latest German post-war estimates are that about 25,000 persons were killed and about 30,000 were wounded, virtually all of these being casualties from the RAF incendiary attack of 13/14 February.55 Although the latest available post-war accounts play up the ?terroristic? aspects of the Dresden bombings, it is significant that they accept much lower casualty figures than those circulated by the Germans immediately after the raids and, from time to time, in the years immediately following the war.56 The most distorted account of the Dresden bombings--one that may have become the basis of Communist propaganda against the Allies, particularly against the Americans, in recent years--was prepared by two former German general officers for the Historical Division, European Command (U.S.A.) in 1948.57 In this account, the number of dead from the Dresden bombings was declared to be 250,000. That this figure may be the probable number of dead, multiplied by ten for the sake of exaggeration, becomes apparent by comparing the weight of the Dresden bombings of 14-15 February 1945 with the total tonnages expanded by the Allies against the six other largest German cities (see Chart A) and by comparing the various estimates of the Dresden casualties with the best estimate of the total casualties suffered by the Germans from all Allied bombings during World War II.
City
Population
Killed
Percentage rate
Darmstadt
109,000
8,100
.075
Kassel
220,000
8,659
.039
Dresden
1,000,000
25,000
.025
Hamberg
1,738,000
41,800
.024
Wuppertal
400,000
5,219
.013
The British don't seem to mind bombing people back to the Stone Age when it suits there own needs. I don?t think Europeans have any place to talk when it comes to how the US deals with foreign policy. All you have to do is look back into your history books to see how well the European powers controlled the world. Don?t get me wrong I like the British they have been good allies, and probably will continue to be. But if you want to count up which Countries have dealt more death and destruction on the World I think our European friends would come out the winner.
why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower
they had a word for that kind of politics in the 30's ........ "Ubermensch"
I have a lot of respect for many americans here on this forum even if I don't agree with them -- this respect is not always mutual --
bashing europeans as bleeding-heart-liberals is a popular sport in OT --
they had a word for that kind of politics in the 30's ........ "Ubermensch"
I have a lot of respect for many americans here on this forum even if I don't agree with them -- this respect is not always mutual --
bashing europeans as bleeding-heart-liberals is a popular sport in OT --
"why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower"
they had a word for that kind of politics in the 30's ........ "Ubermensch"
Good point. How about for "why the hell should . . . " we substitute "why the hell would a bunch of smarmy politicians, squabbling amongs themselves, think to be multilateral when they have hegemonic control over most of the world?"
The ideological benefits of multilateralism are many. The power-political benefits . . . not so much.
Just don't go preaching about how great the UN is
they had a word for that kind of politics in the 30's ........ "Ubermensch"
Good point. How about for "why the hell should . . . " we substitute "why the hell would a bunch of smarmy politicians, squabbling amongs themselves, think to be multilateral when they have hegemonic control over most of the world?"
The ideological benefits of multilateralism are many. The power-political benefits . . . not so much.
Just don't go preaching about how great the UN is
<<
<< go do something productive for yourself and see a dentist! >>
LOL! Damn that was weak! I though you yanks were supposed to be good at talking people down! Watch some more Jerry springer, it will educate you in your heritage.
>>What can I say.......I'm trying to be as nice as possible because I know many of your countrymen are not a waste of human flesh...like others which will go unmentioned. If you want to get down to it.......enable PM's or are you to much of a pansy to even do that? I don't want to make you cry or anything.......but some people will only learn the hard way and your admission to being Certifiably Insane leads me to believe you are one of them............
<< There hasn't been IRA attacks over here for quite a long time. Most of the "events" seem to be going down inside Nothern Ireland. The French have got it right with their acts of forgiveness. Have there been much going on since then? nope! Does something happen when america "handles" a situation? everytime! Whos method is working? >>
The idea that Great Britain has any moral standing to intervene in another nation?s civil war because of supposed ?ethnic cleansing? is simply preposterous. As a ruthless imperial power, It wrote the book on subjugating other races. Fortunately, in the case of its American colony, it was repelled. But, only after it had suffered military losses at Baltimore?s Fort McHenry and New Orleans in 1814.
Other British-held territories in China, India, Africa, Australia, Asia, the Middle East, Central and South America, weren?t as lucky. In fact, the 200,000 indigenous peoples of Tasmania were literally wiped out by the British. Slave trading, piracy and opium running, were also part of its notorious practice of empire building.
With respect to Ireland, ethnic cleansing, has been the essence of British rule dating from the Anglo-Norman invasion of 1169. One of its earliest racist laws, enacted in 1367, was the ?Statute of Kilkenny?. It prohibited intermarriage between the British and (Gaelic) Irish under penalty of death. To the British, the Irish were subhuman.
<< Why does every american think the international choices are to either not go outside your border or to carpet bomb other nations. What about talking? The UK, German, French dialogue with Iran is going pretty well. They are pretty receptive. But the Americans have to go - they're an axis of evil, blah blah blah. The nazi situation has nothing of similarity with the middle east situation, except perhaps hte israeli occupation of Palestine. In fact the US seems to be strutting its military might just like the nazi war machine. I don't mind international action, but what the US is doing is mindless unilateralism without consulting anyone. Also, its probably not even the whole US cos everytime Bush goes and runs his mouth off, some one has to come on later and "clarify" what he meant. >>
Yeah......you have a real great history of solving your own problems now don't you?????
I don't think much proof is needed here as you may go find for yourself how many attempts have been made in Europe since 9/11 and before! Not to even mention a few other occurances in the 20th century! As for President Bush, well, if you noticed, every President has this occur after a speech.......check it out for yourslef......the sad thing is, the fact remains that if we say jump..........well, your leaders jump!
As for "Axis", Axis is defined as a partnership, alliance, or common likeness to another or several...............if several nations are all aiding and abedding terrorists, they could be reffered to as an "axis"............Also, remember whom was responsible for Israel being where they are and supporting them for a long time............that is until they got worried they may offend someone.............
So, were you asleep while the coalition was being put together or what???? Did you forget the NATO and the U.N. as well as Russia and China all agreed that force was neccessary and approved of in light of the circumstances.
And now the U.S. military is like the Nazi war machine of WWII???????
Honestly, you're getting a bit boring............come up with some better material next time OK!
<< they had a word for that kind of politics in the 30's ........ "Ubermensch" >>
What the US is doing now is in no way similar to what the Germans did in the 30?s. The US government is not trying to take over the World. If that were what we wanted to do, we would take over Canada and Mexico first. Then when we have taken all their natural resources like Beer, Igloos, Hockey Sticks and Tacos. We would move on to South America to take the Marijuana and Cocaine for our own supplies. Then when we get all the soldiers drunk and stoned we send them over to Europe with Hockey Sticks to beat the weaponless pansy Europeans into submission.
Insane -
Next time you candyarses need help keeping a 3rd world nation from stomping on your precious Falklands Islands, call 911 buddy.
Next time you candyarses need help keeping a 3rd world nation from stomping on your precious Falklands Islands, call 911 buddy.
Just don't go preaching about how great the UN is
I won't -- Everybody knows that the UN is ready to invade the US from Mexico (read that on a website from a extreme-right US militia )
In my humble european opinion all this Iraq - Iran - North Korea vs USA hardtalk is just a lame pissing contest. Bush knows that his popularity will skyrocket in the US with all this macho bs. It's all politics -- he just want to get reelected in a couple of years and saying stuff like that scores big time in the public opinion since 9/11.
My point is that a lot of posts made in this thread illustrates perfectly the foreign policy of the US in the last 50 years. Posts from Rison --"why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower" -- makes the USA the number one enemy for a lot of countries. (and believe me -- europe is NOT an enemy of the US). People in this thread seem to forget that Saddam Hussein was an ally of the US during the Iraq - Iran war in the 80's. Osama bin Laden and the Muhadjedin received money and weapons from the US in their fight against the "evil communists" in Afghanistan. The Stinger missiles the Taliban were using against US aircraft were paid with your 80's tax-dollars. Bush statement about Iran gives the hardliners over there the perfect excuse to crack down the PRO-Western movement in Iran. It seems to me that lot of people in this thread don't realize that Iran nowadays is not the Iran of Khomeiny in the 80's that took american hostages. The Iran of the 70's from the Sjah (backed by the USA) was a very oppressive regime -- it was not a democracy -- .
Americans in OT are crapping on europeans for not sending troops to Afghanistan to help the US in it's fight against the Taliban. The fact is that all European countries (with the exception of germany -- constitutional problem) were willing to send combat troops in the aftermath of 9/11. The fact is that the USA did not need us (europeans) to do the job. Most noteworthy, NATO even invoked Article 5 of its Charter declaring the attack on the US to be an attack on all NATO members. Saying that europe was against US actions in Afghanistan is a lie.
Just my 2 eurocent --
<-----------zipping on flamesuit
btw -- the forums on AT are dead slow over here -- all you Americans stop posting
I won't -- Everybody knows that the UN is ready to invade the US from Mexico
(read that on a website from a extreme-right US militia )In my humble european opinion all this Iraq - Iran - North Korea vs USA hardtalk is just a lame pissing contest. Bush knows that his popularity will skyrocket in the US with all this macho bs. It's all politics -- he just want to get reelected in a couple of years and saying stuff like that scores big time in the public opinion since 9/11.
My point is that a lot of posts made in this thread illustrates perfectly the foreign policy of the US in the last 50 years. Posts from Rison --"why the hell should we be multilateral when we are the supreme superpower" -- makes the USA the number one enemy for a lot of countries. (and believe me -- europe is NOT an enemy of the US). People in this thread seem to forget that Saddam Hussein was an ally of the US during the Iraq - Iran war in the 80's. Osama bin Laden and the Muhadjedin received money and weapons from the US in their fight against the "evil communists" in Afghanistan. The Stinger missiles the Taliban were using against US aircraft were paid with your 80's tax-dollars. Bush statement about Iran gives the hardliners over there the perfect excuse to crack down the PRO-Western movement in Iran. It seems to me that lot of people in this thread don't realize that Iran nowadays is not the Iran of Khomeiny in the 80's that took american hostages. The Iran of the 70's from the Sjah (backed by the USA) was a very oppressive regime -- it was not a democracy -- .
Americans in OT are crapping on europeans for not sending troops to Afghanistan to help the US in it's fight against the Taliban. The fact is that all European countries (with the exception of germany -- constitutional problem) were willing to send combat troops in the aftermath of 9/11. The fact is that the USA did not need us (europeans) to do the job. Most noteworthy, NATO even invoked Article 5 of its Charter declaring the attack on the US to be an attack on all NATO members. Saying that europe was against US actions in Afghanistan is a lie.
Just my 2 eurocent --
<-----------zipping on flamesuit
btw -- the forums on AT are dead slow over here -- all you Americans stop posting
What the US is doing now is in no way similar to what the Germans did in the 30?s. The US government is not trying to take over the World. If that were what we wanted to do, we would take over Canada and Mexico first. Then when we have taken all their natural resources like Beer, Igloos, Hockey Sticks and Tacos. We would move on to South America to take the Marijuana and Cocaine for our own supplies. Then when we get all the soldiers drunk and stoned we send them over to Europe with Hockey Sticks to beat the weaponless pansy Europeans into submission.
LOL
LOL
<< We would move on to South America to take the Marijuana and Cocaine for our own supplies. >>
If you take over that land, then wouldn't it be kinda hard for US customs to "hold" the goods until people look away and then sell it on?
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