Yet another negative from illegal crimmigrants

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'd support the concept of helping Mexico and other countries develop some kind of jobs to keep their people home, especially if we use their money...Mexico has a thriving oil economy...as well as a great tourist economy...they can afford to fuhd their own economic expansion, or at least help pay for it.
THAT would be cheaper in the long run than the huge costs the illegals are causing this country. look at all the hospitals who have had to close their emergency rooms because they are swamped with people who can't/won't pay...and we wonder why medical costs are thru the roof...they charge those of us who CAN pay double or triple so they can make something back on the ones who they can't collect from...

Agreed. These types of educational-ish programs are definitely something I would support.

As for emergency rooms closing, a bigger "problem" than illegal immigrants is the fact that many legal immigrants and ethnic minorities use emergency rooms as a source of primary medical care, thus greatly burdening both themselves and the resources of the hospitals involved.

You're right on that...the AVERAGE wait here in an E.R to be seen is 8 hours...(unless of course it's a life threatening thing) FAR too many people use the E.R.'s for their family doctor, because the hospitals HAVE to provide treatment for everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, whereas doctor's offices don't have that requirement foisted on them...

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'd support the concept of helping Mexico and other countries develop some kind of jobs to keep their people home, especially if we use their money...Mexico has a thriving oil economy...as well as a great tourist economy...they can afford to fuhd their own economic expansion, or at least help pay for it.
THAT would be cheaper in the long run than the huge costs the illegals are causing this country. look at all the hospitals who have had to close their emergency rooms because they are swamped with people who can't/won't pay...and we wonder why medical costs are thru the roof...they charge those of us who CAN pay double or triple so they can make something back on the ones who they can't collect from...

Agreed. These types of educational-ish programs are definitely something I would support.

As for emergency rooms closing, a bigger "problem" than illegal immigrants is the fact that many legal immigrants and ethnic minorities use emergency rooms as a source of primary medical care, thus greatly burdening both themselves and the resources of the hospitals involved.

You're right on that...the AVERAGE wait here in an E.R to be seen is 8 hours...(unless of course it's a life threatening thing) FAR too many people use the E.R.'s for their family doctor, because the hospitals HAVE to provide treatment for everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, whereas doctor's offices don't have that requirement foisted on them...

Yep. And not only that, there's simply a lack of awareness in terms of proper preventive medical care. Many individuals just don't know the options available to them in this respect, or don't realize the benefit that could be had by taking advantage of them.

Edit: the same is actually true of psychological care, perhaps to an even greater extent. But for fear of high-jacking the thread, I'll end there 🙂

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
btw calling them illegal crimmigrants and posting articles like that is is just petty.

It is not petty at all. It is the truth. They are ILLEGAL. The first thing they did when they stepped on the ground in this country is break it's laws and they continue to break it's laws on a daily basis. Your just pissed at all the talk because your dad stole his way into this country and citizenship.

hmmm.....

You are correct.
You are very correct.
They came here illegally.
I would argue why but most people won't listen.
they think the world "is perfect" and that everything comes in a neat little package.

I would listen but I still would not care. I would not care if the government of the country your parents came from was raping the women and gouging the eyes out of all the men. I wouldn't care if they were selling babies into slavery. It is not my, nor my country's, problem. There is no reason my country and taxes from LEGAL citizens should pay to support ILLEGAL immigrants. People like your family come here and use the system to their advantage, pop out a kid to gain anchor baby rights, and worm their way into citizenship. You are part of the problem.

how can I argue with that.

I sit here, someone who cares dearly for his home, who wants to right the wrongs, who want to help his home remain the pinnacle of human existence for eternity....and you choose to silence me.

by law I am an American.
no tells me that I should love my county, only that I should obey its laws,.....


but I do. I love it so.



Sorry you hate me


bye.

Don't worry dude....I don't hate you, not even close. None of this is your fault. I understand how you feel and according to current laws you are a citizen and that is fine by me but the law needs to be changed to stop the anchor baby loophole. Swimming to this side of the river and popping out a kid on US soil, paid for by US citizens, should not buy someone into this country with a means to stay here.

thanks for flying the flag of non-aggression....many of these discussions end up in an all out brawl so thanks for that🙂


I think as a nation we somehow try to always keep the best wishes of our forefathers at heart but it ends up causing endless problems. Humanity is imperfect while the wishes of a more perfect union, a place of exploration of both world and mind, of a place of peace, a place absent of oppression, a place of hope, a place of happiness,...

..are not.

We have endless amounts of patriots and endless amounts of selfish tools, racists, ignorant....generally sullying everyone else's name under the guise of patriotism.

There is, however, one mentality that I hope more people gravitate towards.

Humanity has always found ways of dividing itself, and there are precious few places left where that is not the case. In these places we can thrive, building, creating, speaking, thinking, eating, ....doing something beautiful with the meager fleeting existence given to us by whatever we believe gave it to us.

I believe America is still one of these places.

Our actions as a Nation have been far from perfect, alienating numerous countries over its existence. There is still much good left in us however. That is why immigration shouldn't be about "locking it up" or "opening the flood gates." Thinking that way is so close-minded and so prone to abuse, and generally leads away from the beautiful vision that we have of this land.

I for one agree that the illegal immigration must stop, but not at the cost of losing our identity in the world. That would mean our death as a Nation.

There is no simple answer. There is an answer however, and we should work towards it. Anyone who keeps the ideals of this nation in mind and empathy towards man in mind will think of it.

Let's at least try not to hate each other.

 

[Praxis1452]

the thing is I've got to say is that a solution to this problem while still being completely oblivious to border security is by boosting the economy of mexico. I fully support that. The only thing I don't support is supporting the economy of mexico at the expense of american citizens and our economies. But the reality here is border security harder or manipulating the markets to help mexico without hurting us? Both should be implemented but border security first and helping mexico as the long term solution.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
the thing is I've got to say is that a solution to this problem while still being completely oblivious to border security is by boosting the economy of mexico. I fully support that. The only thing I don't support is supporting the economy of mexico at the expense of american citizens and our economies. But the reality here is border security harder or manipulating the markets to help mexico without hurting us? Both should be implemented but border security first and helping mexico as the long term solution.

we have to start both at the same time however....

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I for one agree that the illegal immigration must stop, but not at the cost of losing our identity in the world. That would mean our death as a Nation.

Stopping the illegal immigrants won't mean our death as a nation. They're doing more than their fair share to kill it.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Whisper
I feel it's the moral obligation of individuals to help support those less fortunate than themselves, yes. Do I feel they should be made to do so in all respects? No. Do I support illegal immigration? No. But I also don't support the view that if someone is attempting to escape a country in which conditions are as you've described, they should be sent back in order to save me some money.

Here's my issue with that. It's fine if it's one or two people. What if a thousand want to come here? What if a million want to come here? What about a billion? Exactly how many people is "enough"? Should we, given the right world conditions, allow every other person in the world to come here in that manner? If not, what's the cut off?

And you have a valid point. Humanitarianism is great, but there are also logistical concerns that go with protecting and ensuring the future prosperity and security of our country, yes.

As for an answer to your question, I honestly don't have one. I dislike selfish and inconsiderate people as much as the next guy, but in the end I still see them as just that--people.

Can the United States help everyone? No, and it shouldn't be expected to. But as a world superpower, I do feel we have a responsibility to help those countries less fortunate than our own.

In terms of the illegal immigration from Mexico issue, I wouldn't have any qualms with putting up a fence along the entire length of the Mexico/US border. But I would have issue with physically harming people attempting to cross it, as well as with automatically seeing these individuals as somehow lesser than myself.

And I guess that's my real issue with many anti-illegal immigration law proponents. It's not a fundamental disagreement on the problem at hand, but on the mindset of many who simply fail to take the time to consider that illegal immigrants are still, in fact, people.

If you aren't willing to use physical force to stop them, then what good is the fence? They ignore the border as it is, and if you build a 15' fence with no penalties for crossing it, they'll just start renting 18' ladders...

If by physical force you mean apprehending, detaining, and deporting the individuals, then I have no qualms with that. But if by physical force you mean actually harming the people attempting to cross, then I'd be against it.

So if a Mexican gang member who is here illegally breaks into a persons home and that home owner shoots and kills the intruder, then I take it you are against that also?

Breaking into this country with the intention of doing harm is no different. Is every Mexican illegally crossing the border to do harm to people? No.

But then again, how do we know? The first act they commit to get here is break the law...


believe me, we don't have to shoot everyone that crosses illegally...once you kill a few dozen that should stem the tide considerably.

It's eventually going to happen....people are going to get tired of this and take the law into their own hands.

 

[0roo0roo]

yup, and doesn't matter if they harm or not. they simply are breaking the law, jumping the line. the fence really needs to go up and the guards need to crack down. mexico complains about the fence but they jealously guard their own southern border as well😛 bit of the ol hipocrisy. a country is like an extended family, a home, you get to choose who comes into your home.

a fence would reveal the truth too. crack down and the industries that really do require temporary workers would finally be motivated to force congress to pass decent laws on temporary workers from abroad. legalize it and keep it all above board, no exploitation. those against the fence are for exploitation and continuation of the status quo really, they are the ones that tend to portray themselves as fighting for the poor, but really they aren't. they basically advocate putting downward pressure on low skill jobs wages...how progressive is that? the left has really lost their way on this issue. devaluing good days work to a level where yes, an american won't take that job. they'll just sit in jail like so many african americans and poor are these days. labor is a tiny fraction of the cost of agriculture. maybe we should pay the real cost of our food. basically all the lefts arguements are counterproductive in this area..it saddens me as a democrat.

of course there are some out there who have hidden agendas. like the latino activist groups who are against protecting the border or taking any real steps towards reforms. they really want to preserve the status quo so they can continue to swell their ranks and gain political power. such people are not honestly for reforms in any debate on this issue.

and also, do not assume we are a country built on continuous immigration, immigration actually came in waves with times in between with very little immigration. this helps with assimilation. temporary workers should be just that, temporary. theres nothing wrong with that. there should be no jumping ahead in line.

sometimes you hear that they pay ss taxes, so what? well from what i remember they don't even pay enough total to pay for their kids educational costs in just california alone. low wages=low taxes.

 

[BUTCH1]

Now that the housing boom has collapsed badly here in FL illegals and locals are vieing for the same construction jobs and
guess what?? the illegals will work cheaper and get used more by contrators. If a contractors hires a local he has to worry
about all the usual encumbrances; decent wage, unemployment payments ect. Most of the illegals I've seen are hard workers
but they send most of what they make back home, out of our economy. The local hospital has become a joke, wait times are
insane most days, pi$$es me off that I pay for insurance and also support the public (state supported) hospitial with an
additional $180 a year on my tax bill for indigent care. Not a hater but anyone here illegally needs to be sent home, as a
country we can't afford not too...