yet another Iranian scientist killed.

[Craig234]

Survival or annihilation.

They chose survival.

So if the local gang falsely claims you want to kill them, and their only choice is survival annihilation so they kill you in 'self-defense', you are for that, right? Nice racket.

Who has the better set of facts supporting that the other side is aggressive: the history of Iran actions against the US, or the history of US actions against Iran? (crickets expected).

 

[Nebor]

I think that we're attempting to make the Iranian public, and scientists, so afraid that they don't want to work on their nation's nuclear projects. It is absolutely terrorism, essentially using violence to effect a political, social or economic change through fear. Terrorism is historically incredibly effective and cost efficient. Taking it off the table because some people see it as "cheap" or in bad taste would be like taking all of the akimbo machine pistols out of MW3 for the same reason; people use that shit because IT WORKS.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Really, it is pointless to twist words like this. Israel is using Iranians dissidents to do their dirty work for them, along with their own operations in Iran and US operations inside Iran. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was evident Iran was running a targeted campaign to kill Americans and Israelis, Israel and the US would give armed forces order to attack.

Well, when you are in the position of Israel and need to prevent WMDs from a country that has sworn to destroy you, you don't really have the luxury of playing fair and just. You do whatever dirty stuff you need in order to survive.

Unlike what you and Craig are thinking, this is not a game or a contest that you need to win fairly. You just need to win.

Perhaps the most vivid demonstration of the Israeli approach was operation Wrath Of God where PLO operatives linked, directly or indirectly, to the Munich massacre were picked off one by one. This IS terrorism. It was made to incite terror just as much as it was intended to damage operational capability.

Craig, OBL was just a civilian when he was assassinated. No trial, and he didn't physically harm anyone. He's no worse than a civilian that's assembling WMDs to kill millions.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Lol at JediYoda. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

It's called sarcasm dude.

In your case it was probably the truth until I called you on it....

 

[kylebisme]

No, I didn't understand because you were unclear and it's an attempt at further diversion by you.

I quite clearly asked you about "the source for what you quoted", and you are continuing to divert from your inability to defend that source in the face of the evidence which contradicts him.

Survival or annihilation.

They chose survival.

Nonsense, which is why Yitshak Rabin stated:

I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.

Menachem Begin stated:

In June l967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.

So, can you explain why one should take your claim that Israel faced a threat of annihilation in 1967 over the words of these Israeli leaders to the contrary?

 

[bfdd]

I think that we're attempting to make the Iranian public, and scientists, so afraid that they don't want to work on their nation's nuclear projects. It is absolutely terrorism, essentially using violence to effect a political, social or economic change through fear. Terrorism is historically incredibly effective and cost efficient. Taking it off the table because some people see it as "cheap" or in bad taste would be like taking all of the akimbo machine pistols out of MW3 for the same reason; people use that shit because IT WORKS.

We just shouldn't be hypocrites about it then. Don't bitch and moan with your mouth about someone burning down your house, when your hands are currently striking matches. I do not support terrorism with my tax dollars.

 

[Infohawk]

I think that we're attempting to make the Iranian public, and scientists, so afraid that they don't want to work on their nation's nuclear projects. It is absolutely terrorism, essentially using violence to effect a political, social or economic change through fear. Terrorism is historically incredibly effective and cost efficient. Taking it off the table because some people see it as "cheap" or in bad taste would be like taking all of the akimbo machine pistols out of MW3 for the same reason; people use that shit because IT WORKS.

It seems like everyone lately wants terrorism to be a meaningless word. The way you're looking at it, the mob is a terrorist organization. Sorry but I think there has to be attacks on civilians or other outrageous conduct for a political aim in order for it to be terrorism. This may be murder, but that doesn't mean it's terrorism. And that's not to say what is going on is right or wrong.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So if the local gang falsely claims you want to kill them, and their only choice is survival annihilation so they kill you in 'self-defense', you are for that, right? Nice racket.

Who has the better set of facts supporting that the other side is aggressive: the history of Iran actions against the US, or the history of US actions against Iran? (crickets expected).

We were talking about his misrepresenting the Arab/Israeli conflict of '67.
Nothing was stated about Iran in what I quoted and my statement.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So, can you explain why one should take your claim that Israel faced a threat of annihilation in 1967 over the words of these Israeli leaders to the contrary?

Egypt had forces lined up against Israel on her border, so did Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Russia played the Arabs for a fool and they bit.

What Nassar did in the Sinai was not the same as what he did sending troops over to support Jordan. He just did not have time to build up the anticipated forces.

But those do not count again; the Arabs were going to toss flowers across the boundaries.

Jordan, Lebanon and Syria were also forcing Israel into a multi-front conflict.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I quite clearly asked you about "the source for what you quoted", and you are continuing to divert from your inability to defend that source in the face of the evidence which contradicts him.

The source is clearly stated in the Wiki link. If you can prove what he says is incorrect, please do.

I don't have to "defend" the source either. Where do you come up with these ridiculous arguments?

 

[cybrsage]

Actually I was talking about the invasion of Haiti.

I have to ask, since it not clear. You are joking, right?

Haiti

Religions:
Roman Catholic 80%, Protestant 16% (Baptist 10%, Pentecostal 4%, Adventist 1%, other 1%), none 1%, other 3%
note:roughly half of the population practices voodoo

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html

 

[LumbergTech]

It seems like everyone lately wants terrorism to be a meaningless word. The way you're looking at it, the mob is a terrorist organization. Sorry but I think there has to be attacks on civilians or other outrageous conduct for a political aim in order for it to be terrorism. This may be murder, but that doesn't mean it's terrorism. And that's not to say what is going on is right or wrong.

the term terrorism is used too loosely all the time, but that doesn't seem to upset people unless its against the US...not saying its valid or not, but people dont like it when the finger is pointed at them

 

[davmat787]

I have to ask, since it not clear. You are joking, right?

Nebor gets that question a lot. I think I am one of the few that gets his sense of humor. It helps if you picture some guy in his BDU's in some out of the way Army base, looking for any reason to put off that paperwork. All of the sudden trolling us civilians makes a ton of sense. And by trolling I mean the good kind.

 

[cybrsage]

Nebor gets that question a lot. I think I am one of the few that gets his sense of humor. It helps if you picture some guy in his BDU's in some out of the way Army base, looking for any reason to put off that paperwork. All of the sudden trolling us civilians makes a ton of sense. And by trolling I mean the good kind.

Ah ok. He is like Ausm, who plays the role of Forum Jester, saying foolish things on purpose to make us all laugh.

 

[davmat787]

Ah ok. He is like Ausm, who plays the role of Forum Jester, saying foolish things on purpose to make us all laugh.

Ouch, that is mean. Ausm means what he says, he actually believes the shit he spews. Big difference.

 

[cybrsage]

Ouch, that is mean. Ausm means what he says, he actually believes the shit he spews. Big difference.

I am not sure he does. He says the most outlandish things, no one can actually mean those things...they would be a complete nutter. I think he is actually saying them to make us laugh.

Maybe I am being too nice to think that he is not a loon.

 

[Nebor]

Nebor gets that question a lot. I think I am one of the few that gets his sense of humor. It helps if you picture some guy in his BDU's in some out of the way Army base, looking for any reason to put off that paperwork. All of the sudden trolling us civilians makes a ton of sense. And by trolling I mean the good kind.

Heh, something like that. We don't really have much actual paperwork now though, so much as an endless stream of power point presentations to update that no one of importance will ever look at. I'm in multicam now though, about 6 weeks away from another deployment to Afghanistan as an advisor.

Here's some motivational reading: Saving Afghanistan One Advisor at a Time

 

[davmat787]

Heh, something like that. We don't really have much actual paperwork now though, so much as an endless stream of power point presentations to update that no one of importance will ever look at. I'm in multicam now though, about 6 weeks away from another deployment to Afghanistan as an advisor.

Here's some motivational reading: Saving Afghanistan One Advisor at a Time

How long will your deployment be? Can you give us any idea of what you will be advising them of? Will read your link now, thanks.

 

[SilthDraeth]

The attackers are attempting to stop the development of nuclear weapons by the Islamic terrorist kingpin. Granted, Pakistan is bad enough, but Iran is far more active and involved with the Middle East. They are a threat that is being eliminated.

It's quite ironic that terrorism is being used against them.

I wouldn't bother with such paltry actions, if I had to make the decision for an act of war, I'd go all in and ensure nothing remained of their nuclear program. Moreso, I want NO United States involvement in acts of terrorism or war without a clear and direct declaration by Congress. As we have no such act by Congress, I'd be my demand that the United States not involve itself in these attacks.

If we are responsible in any way, I'd want the President impeached. Doesn't seem likely that we are though, more likely an Israeli mission. So that begs the question, do we sit on the sidelines? I suppose the answer is yes. Let Israel and Iran deal with each other for now.

You express my line of thinking. I know the motivation is to prevent nuclear technology in Iran.

The question is, is it our place to actively prevent any country from advancing technology? There are a multitude of answers all over the board for that question.

I agree with you though, that we shouldn't be doing any terrorist attacks, and that is exactly what CIA assassinations, etc are, unless it Congress has passed an act of war against said country.

If we are officially at war with a country, then I have no problem taking out their politicians and their generals through assassinations, electronic warfare, assassinations of scientists that are in weapons development, or nuclear development.

We obviously try to avoid killing medical personal, and other forms of industry.

A common argument I have heard for the non declaration of war, is that the "terrorists groups" are not an official army.

Well, if we want to fight them, tough luck, they are official if they are allowed to operate within the country, so we simply tell that to their officials, and get congress to declare war, then we hit them hard, fast and pull out.

 

[kylebisme]

The source is clearly stated in the Wiki link.

Yep, as are the people who's debunking you claim his comment refutes.

If you can prove what he says is incorrect, please do.

See the link in my first response to you.

I don't have to "defend" the source either. Where do you come up with these ridiculous arguments?

Rather, you can't defend the source, because discussion of him would expose where he comes up with his ridiculous arguments.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Yep, as are the people who's debunking you claim his comment refutes.


See the link in my first response to you.


Rather, you can't defend the source, because discussion of him would expose where he comes up with his ridiculous arguments.

And the above explains your major fucking malfunction in this forum. You confuse opinions with facts.

NOTHING was debunked in your links. It was the opinion of a couple of people in the west vs. the opinion of people who actually work in the Iranian government.

I'll take the word of those who actually work in Iran and understand Ahmadinejad's intent (and who also understand the difference between an active vs passive verb) against those you cite.

Feel free to have a different opinion of your own concerning who is right but there is nothing difinitive either way. So stop acting like some in-the-know douche who debunked a godamn thing. It's your OPINION, nothing more. Got it?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/11/bomb-kills-iranian-nuclear-scientist



Mossad taking care of bussiness, hopefully this wont be the last guy they get.

Seems like suicide to me.

Perhaps he just couldn't live with himself anymore?

 

[cybrsage]

Seems like suicide to me.

Perhaps he just couldn't live with himself anymore?

 

[Nebor]

How long will your deployment be? Can you give us any idea of what you will be advising them of? Will read your link now, thanks.

Between 9 and 12 months. I'll be working at a coordination center near the Pakistan border that coordinates the actions of Afghan Army, Afghan Police, Afghan Border Police, Afghan NDS (Secret Police,) Coalition Forces & Pakistani forces. After the recent incident where all the Pakistani soldiers were killed by Afghan\Coalition airstrikes, it was decided that those coordination centers should be filled with "A-team" advisers, such as myself.

 

[woolfe9999]

Rather, the Israeli leadership wanted more territory, particularly East Jerusalem, and they knew the could take it, so they did. Attempting to frame that war of conquest as one of defense is absurd, particularly considering the fact that at least a couple of Israeli leaders from that time have since acknowledged the fact that the Six-Day War was a war of choice.

You're over-interpreting those out of context quotations that you are drawing from Wiki. They said that Israel didn't think they would be conquered by Egypt in the shortrun. They did not say that Egypt's provocative actions weren't threatening to Israeli security in the longrun.

You're also leaving out some crucial information. For one thing, Israel tried hard to keep Jordan out of the conflict. How does that support your theory that Israel wanted to conquer East Jerusalem and the West Bank? The candid sources that you cite, Rabin and Begin, did not say that this was the reason they attacked pre-emptively. In fact, they gave entirely different reasons. Yet you credit them so far as whatever implications you choose to draw.

Also, Egypt did intend to attack Israel pre-emptively, and called it off at the last minute due to pressure from the Soviets. That isn't really in dispute.

- wolf