yet another Iranian scientist killed.

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LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
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You are still mixing up payload with yield, and still have the wrong units on all of your graphs but one.

Even the percentage one is off by a factor of 100.

no I think your off. First off all thinking the first one is meters when its radius. Dunno if your taking the piss or too retarded to realize we are talking about a long range ballistic missile and the range its designed for are already mentioned. First one is the damage radius. I said km because we all ready mentioned the distances those missiles are designed for nothing else. The fact that your translating the first graph to distance travel and not damage cause by that missile when used at its designed distances just proves you are clueless

Chemical and biological weapons are poor man’s atomic bombs and can easily be produced. We should at least consider them for our defense. Although the use of such weapons is inhuman, the war taught us that international laws are only scraps of paper. With regard to chemical, bacteriological, and radiological weapons training, it was made very clear during the [Iran-Iraq] war that these weapons are very decisive. It was also made clear that the moral teachings of the world are not very effective when war reaches a serious stage and the world does not respect its own resolutions and closes its
eyes to the violations and all the aggressions which are committed on the battlefield. We should fully equip ourselves both in the offensive and defensive use of chemical, bacteriological, and radiological weapons. From now on you should make use of the opportunity and perform this task.
—Ali Rafsanjani, October 1988





January 11, 2012
Iran on the Brink
by Bruce Thornton
Defining Ideas

Just in the last few months, events have hastened to a crisis in Iran’s long confrontation with the West. The ongoing civil war in Syria looks more and more likely to end with the ouster of strongman Bashar al-Assad, one of Tehran’s most stalwart regional allies and an important supporter of the Iranian proxy terrorist organization, Hezbollah in Lebanon. In November, the International Atomic Energy Agency reported evidence suggesting that Iran is carrying out “undisclosed nuclear-related activities,” including the “development of a nuclear payload for a missile.” According to Israeli intelligence, Iran now has enough material for four to five nuclear bombs.

Since the IAEA report was made public, mysterious explosions have rocked Iran. On November 12, a huge blast completely destroyed a military base that housed Iran’s long-range missile development facility, killing the founder of Iran’s missile program and destroying 180 missiles. Another explosion on November 28 seriously damaged a nuclear conversion site. And in December, blasts have occurred at the Isfahan oil refinery, a military base in Kerman, and a steel factory making nose cones and other parts for missiles. These attacks have rattled further a regime that is on edge over the rumors of a possible Israeli military strike and the impact of international economic sanctions. Rioters, comprised of members of the brutal Basij militia, recently attacked and sacked the British embassy in Tehran, either because of British sanctions against Iran’s banking sector, or internal power struggles among Iran’s leaders.
http://victorhanson.com/articles/thornton011112.html

United States has defined long-range or Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (ICBMs) as those ballistic missiles capable of ranges greater than 5,500 kilometers (about 3,400 miles). To date, five countries have deployed operational ICBMs (all with nuclear weapons): the United States, Russia, China, France, and Britain.

Six Shihab-3 missiles, bearing the slogans "Israel must be wiped off the map" and "We will crush America under our feet," were the stars of the 22 September 2003 military parade in Tehran marking the anniversary of the start of the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, the beginning of what Iran calls "holy defense" week. Other missiles displayed at the parade, according to state television on 22 September, were the Nazeat-6, Nazeat-10, Zezal, Maverick, Hawk, Tondar-69, Fateh-110, Scud B, SAM-6, surface-to-surface naval missiles, Fajr air-to-surface missiles, and long-range shore-to-sea missiles. On 21 September 2004, the IRGC held a parade in Teheran in which the force displayed the Shihab-2, Shihab-3, the Nazeat-6 and Nazeat-10, the Tondar-69 and the Zelzal missiles. On 22 September 2005, Iran conducted a military parade in which the missiles displayed included the Shahab-3, Zelzal 1 and Zelzal 2, M-11 Variant/Tondar-68, Nazeat and M-6. Hawk missiles were paraded, marked as Nazeat and Zelzal. Some of the missiles had banners saying, "Israel should be wiped off the map" and "We will trample America under our feet," "Death to America," and "Death to Israel."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/mrl-iran.htm

I mean you claim your peaceful but then parade your ballistic missiles with banners on it that say Israel should be wiped of the map????
 
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kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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I think your are blind because that's where I got the graphs from.
I did overlook slide 9 because OpenOffice Impress doesn't render the curves and does render information that wasn't in your images, as can be seen here.

First off all thinking the first one is meters when its radius.
Its radius in meters.

First one is the damage radius.
No, its circular error probable radius, in meters, which is why it is labled "CEP[m]".

I said km because we all ready mentioned the distances those missiles are designed for nothing else.
You said "At 1000km's you will have a kill probility of 0.001 percent with their current missile using a non nuclear war head on structures" when in fact the graph shows accuracy in meters rather than range in kilometers, and kill probably as value rather than a percent, because you don't understand how to read the graphs. More specifically: where the graph shows a probably of 1, that means 100%, while a probably of 0.001 is 0.1%.

The fact that your translating the first graph to distance travel and not damage cause by that missile when used at its designed distances
You're the one who misread the graph as referring to "distance travel" while Silverpig correctly read the graph showing accuracy, just as the title of the graph says.

United States has defined long-range or Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (ICBMs) as those ballistic missiles capable of ranges greater than 5,500 kilometers (about 3,400 miles). To date, five countries have deployed operational ICBMs (all with nuclear weapons): the United States, Russia, China, France, and Britain.
This is true, albeit plagiarized from this 2009 Congressional Research Report. It also stands in contraction to your ongoing references to Iranian ballistic missiles as "long-range", as Iran isn't among the five countries that have long-range ballistic missiles, the missiles they do have fall far short of 5,500 kilometers.

So Lui, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about when discussing missiles, I'm left to wonder: what really has you so worked up about Iran?
 

LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
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I did overlook slide 9 because OpenOffice Impress doesn't render the curves and does render information that wasn't in your images, as can be seen here.


Its radius in meters.


No, its circular error probable radius, in meters, which is why it is labled "CEP[m]".
You said "At 1000km's you will have a kill probility of 0.001 percent with their current missile using a non nuclear war head on structures" when in fact the graph shows accuracy in meters rather than range in kilometers, and kill probably as value rather than a percent, because you don't understand how to read the graphs. More specifically: where the graph shows a probably of 1, that means 100%, while a probably of 0.001 is 0.1%.


You're the one who misread the graph as referring to "distance travel" while Silverpig correctly read the graph showing accuracy, just as the title of the graph says.


This is true, albeit plagiarized from this 2009 Congressional Research Report. It also stands in contraction to your ongoing references to Iranian ballistic missiles as "long-range", as Iran isn't among the five countries that have long-range ballistic missiles, the missiles they do have fall far short of 5,500 kilometers.

So Lui, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about when discussing missiles, I'm left to wonder: what really has you so worked up about Iran?
No serious

First of CEP[m] is the accuracy
2nd they already show the range of the missiles. 1600 to 2000 that was in the first table.
3rd that was for the for the 2nd generation missiles. If you looked at reports they are busy developing 3rd and 4th generation missiles which is a updated missile.

To put the facts straight
Iran’s missile and space programs are progressing with singular urgency: no other country in the world, including established industrialized powers, comes close to Iran in the number and variety of ballistic missiles in development or already deployed.
They are covering almost all technological bases: ordinary liquid propulsion, storable liquid propulsion, and solid propulsion. Along with ballistic missiles and space launch vehicles, Iran seems poised to add a cruise missile component to its strategic forces.
Iran's development of a space launch vehicle may well be a harbinger of an ICBM.

Shahab (“Comet”) is a generic name given by the Iranians to a line of ballistic missiles of various ranges and payloads, all sharing the heritage propulsion technology and general layout of the venerable Soviet R11 – the famous Scud ballistic missile of the 1950s. When Iran found itself unable to respond in kind to Saddam’s missile attacks soon after the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War, a small arsenal of Scud missiles with a small number of launchers was acquired from Libya, at that time one of Iran’s few strategic allies. The missiles were used effectively by Iran, especially during the War of the Cities when Baghdad was subjected to a counter-offensive by Iranian ballistic missiles, causing considerable damage and loss of life. After the war, Iran turned to North Korea for the acquisition of both the 300 km Scud B replicas made in that country, and the newer 580 km Scud C allegedly developed by its nascent missile industry. Quantities of both types of missiles and their launchers were purchased, as well as their production lines. The Scud B and C were dubbed Shahab 1 and 2, respectively, and manufactured in considerable quantities.

In August 2004 Iran tested a new version of the Shahab 3, described as “more accurate.” The missile is somewhat longer than the earlier version, its internal design seems to be significantly modified,and it carries a much revised reentry vehicle with a distinct baby bottle-like shape.Shortly after this test,Iranian sources disclosed that their missiles could now achieve the range of 2000 km. No specific name was given to this new version, which for the purpose of this paper will be called Shahab 3-ER. Initially some slight embarrassment could be discerned in Iranian statements over the extended range, which seemed to violate an unwritten understanding that Europe should not be targeted (the 2000 km range covers most of Eastern Europe).

Recently, however, Iranian officials were citing this range openly when extolling Iran’s power of resistance against prospective US military action.
The Shahab 3-ER, while dimensionally longer than the previous version, travels on the same towed launcher, powered by a Mercedes-made commercial truck. Its modified design carries the tell tale signs of Soviet-style missile engineering, with significant family resemblance to the work of the famous Makayev design bureau. How exactly this is related to contemporary Russian missile engineering resources remains a mystery. Nevertheless, it seems that the Iranians are still capable of drawing on Russian expertise for the Shahab program, either directly or through intermediaries like North Korea.

In January 2006, a German newspaper revealed the transfer of a new type of missile from North Korea to Iran, dubbed BM25 and having a range of 3500 km. The transfer of the new missiles to Iran was confirmed by Israel’s chief of military intelligence,General Amos Yadlin, . The missile is reported to be a land based, extended range version of the venerable Soviet era SSN6 SLBM. Eighteen of those missiles with their launchers were purchased from North Korea! BM25 was flight tested by Iran on January 17, 2006, and that the range achieved in this test was 3000 km

That graphs I showed was a presentation and a easy way to show why Israel And the US think they are trying to create nuclear weapons. You going on about crap you don't know off looks like a great effort to look past all the factors and proof laid before. Yet no comment about the other facts that was given just proofs it as you are still on banging about a report/presentation which looks about 10 steps above your fire place as you can't read it properly. Why would they go and show km on every graph when the ranges where already determined in the beginning. The graphs just shows the ineffectiveness of that missile at those ranges. And those missiles are old as well. So the graphs you see all the things related to it will be connected to the missiles range that was determined which is 1600 to 2000km etc etc. I posted the ranges way back in the beginning. SO WE DETERMINED THAT THE RANGE OF THEM IS xxxx km. What followed was the accuracy CEP [m] That's how missiles accuracy gets measure btw then they showed the payload one need for different types of ranges. At xxxxx km it will need xxxx kg's payload. Please we are alll grown ups I can't spoon feed these things to you. You will have to figure it out yourself and pissing on about is not going to help. Care to have a answer about the other facts I posted. The missiles was just 1 of the facts. The reports the explosion of one of the missiles at a uranuim enrichment site etc etc. You have not commented on that but your trying to avoid it by turning a simpe thing into a argument which is going to spoil the post.

So moving on!

Any country seeking a military nuclear capability needs to obtain threemajor capabilities: the production of fissile materials; the development of the explosive mechanism; and the adaptation of existing delivery
mechanisms or the development of new, special purpose mechanisms to deliver a nuclear weapon to a pre-designated target and explode it there. Accomplishment of the first two capabilities is sufficient for the production of a nuclear explosive device. The addition of the third one will turn the device into a weapon.

There are two major materials that can serve as the core of a nuclear explosive device, i.e., the essential and indispensable part of any such device: uranium, enriched in the isotope 235 to a high concentration – HEU; and the plutonium isotope 239, which is produced from uranium in a nuclear reactor. According to IAEA criteria, 25 kilograms of HEU or 8 kilograms of plutonium are designated as “significant quantities,” sufficient to serve as the core of a nuclear explosive device.

The uranium enrichment route is at present the shortest one for the achievement of a nuclear capability in Iran. However, Iran has not neglected the second alternative, the plutonium route. In the future, Iran will have two possibilities for producing plutonium. The first and least desirable is the utilization of the irradiated nuclear fuel from its Bushehr nuclear power plant. It is less desirable because of the lower quality of the plutonium produced therein, and because the nuclear fuel, at least for the foreseeable future, will be Russian-produced and under a contractual obligation to be
returned to Russia.

Because of the drawbacks of using the power reactor as the source of plutonium, Iran embarked on another project – the construction of a heavy water natural uranium-plutonium production reactor, the so-called research reactor. It is under construction at the site of Arak, which already hosts a heavy water production plant, essential for the operation of this reactor. The fuel for this reactor will be produced at the UCF. In order to separate plutonium from the fuel after it has been irradiated in the reactor, a “reprocessing” plant is needed.

Above suffices if there are no other, concealed activities to produce feed material and to enrich it. However, one cannot assume that there is no such parallel activity, given Iran’s past record of concealing and operating an undeclared facility.

Seriously I don't know what era or age you were born but tell me would you trust a country like Iran if you look at their track record? Why are their only allies Syria. Why do most of the other countries don't trust them or are in bad relations with them. Because Iran sponsored and supplied terrorist activities for ages. They didn't even tried to hide it. Now that their beginning to work with enrichment they are trying to say No we are peaceful yet the march on parades with missiles that got banners attached to it saying Israel must be wiped of the earth and US must be destroyed etc etc. Would you trust a country like that when they say No we are just using to to generate power? I bet if you lived close to Iran your tune would've been different

This map is old but its a lot of sites for just power
iransites.jpg
 
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LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
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Do you get paid by the word? Is that why just about every post takes up a whole screen?

So providing facts is wrong?

Another one

From the Report by the Director General

C.12. Fuzing, arming and firing system
64. The alleged studies documentation indicates that, as part of the studies carried out by the engineering groups under Project 111 to integrate the new payload into the re-entry vehicle of the Shahab 3 missile, additional work was conducted on the development of a prototype firing system that
would enable the payload to explode both in the air above a target, or upon impact of the re-entry vehicle with the ground. Iran was shown this information, which, in its 117 page submission (referred to above in paragraph 8), it dismissed as being “an animation game”.

65. The Agency, in conjunction with experts from Member States other than those which had provided the information in question, carried out an assessment of the possible nature of the new payload. As a result of that assessment, it was concluded that any payload option other than nuclear which could also be expected to have an airburst option (such as chemical weapons) could be ruled out. Iran was asked to comment on this assessment and agreed in the course of a meeting with the Agency which took place in Tehran in May 2008 that, if the information upon which it was based were true, it would constitute a programme for the development of a nuclear weapon. Attachment 2 to this Annex reproduces the results of the Agency’s assessment as it was presented by the Secretariat to the Member States in the technical briefing which took place in February 2008.
Implementation of the NPT Safeguards Agreement and relevant provisions of
Security Council resolutions in the Islamic Republic of Iran
___________________________________________________________

Thats a direct quote from the latest report by the IAEA. Also confirming that anything other than a nuclear payload could be ruled out
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/18/iranian-student-activist-fatally-shot-in-houston/
Houston Police Department spokesman Victor Senties told the Associated Press that Bagherzadeh, who was born in France and raised Iranian, was active in promoting Iranian women's rights. Investigators are not sure if the shooting was related to those activities.

In prior interviews with the Houston Chronicle about her protest activities against the Iranian government, Bagherzadeh requested that she not use her last name because she feared for her safety, the newspaper reports.
Bagherzadeh said his sister -- a molecular genetic technology student at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center -- was a dedicated student who was "very social" and active within Houston's Persian community, but denied news reports that she was critical of the Iranian government.
hmmm...
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
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I can't believe people are ok with this.

No one cared when dozens of US/european microbiologists were killed starting roughly 10 years ago (after 9/11). It was and still is an amazing "statistical anomoly". No one gives a crap because American Idol isnt about dead microbiologists.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I missed Idol tonight, I was working late. Was it good?

WAIT! I PVR'd it! Three cheers for Windows 7!