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YAYAGT - Pick amongst these home defense shotguns

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boomhower said:
Has it even been released yet? Interesting design but a first attempt at a shotgun with a pretty complicated design from a company with a spotty record. That's not something I'm betting my life on until it's been proven.
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It's not even out yet as far as I know. Not even sure it's in production yet.
 
And get a nice bright weapon mounted light and keep your house as dark as possible. I have a Streamlight TLR-1s, which set me back $120 mounted but worth it, imo. It has a momentary switch and an always on/off switch....very cool and easy.

Try this sometime...get up about 3am and walk around your house so you eyes get adjusted to the dark. Then take a 2 second 160 lumen light flash in your face at 10 yards and then look around and see how well you can see.

A light:

1. Let's you identify the target. - You can't go shooting at random sounds in your house. Especially in a busy neighborhood or if you have other family members. I would never fire at an unidentified target simple b/c the target was in my house. It's not worth the consequences for me. I don't want to kill a kid stealing my Xbox....sorry if you are such a warrior that you would do it b/c you are allowed by law to protect your house.

2. Shocks/disorients/blinds the target. - From my example above, they are now temporarily blind. If they already have their gun out they might try to shoot at the light but they sure won't be able to see your body or anything, they'll be blind firing. While you, on the other hand, can see everything in front of you.

3. Gives you 1-2 second drop on them after you identify if it turns into a firefight. It will naturally take their body at least 1 second to react to being blinding before they can fire (if they are armed). If they are unarmed, nail them with the light and yell loudly at them to get the F down on the ground NOW as they are about to get nailed with a load of 12G buckshot! They'll probably crap themselves and get down or try to run out the door which will be hard for them to find since they won't be able to see much. If they are armed, I'm shooting first.

They only drawback is that it can give away your position, but this drawback is small compared to the benefits of a light.
 
both of the above posts get a thumbs up front me. i compared my maverick to an older 500 that a friend had, and these things are identical. i could not find any real difference besides the safety, and i don't mind the cross-bolt at all. if there's a threat, it's going to be off immediately, anyway. but plain and simple, the action on this shotty is great, and it feels much better than your typical $200 walmart pump used to.

only thing i don't like is that the slide rails for the pump are not tied together. so while the front grip fits the mag tube well, it rotates a lot. iirc on an 870 the rails are tied by a horizonal bar, right?

i like the one at academy that i linked better, though. 40 bucks less, you get a 1.5" shorter barrel and lose one or two shells (i'm not planning on shooting 7-8 times). and i don't like the pistol grip in that package. for 40, you can probably pick up a front/rear pistol set that are better contoured and make stockless firing much more effective. i always always recommend a front pistol if you're going to do the rear, it makes the weapon so much easier to control.

only additional thing about lights i'll say is get a momentary switch. don't accounce yourself with a light until you are in fact ready to blind and/or shoot.

i also just reconfigured the lighting at my house. due to our street lights getting very dim and ineffective, i'm now aiming a flood at the front corner of our house, where we park cars. drive goes around back to the useless garage, but it's one of those akward 20-point turn type deals so the cars stay on the side/front. just gonna leave it on at night. neighbor's drive is right next to mine, they have another on the back corner of their house that they leave on. then i have a motion sensor that points fowards the back of the drive, away from the porch and towards the gate and my shed that sits behind the pavement.

long story short- outside areas likely to contain thieves are well lit, doorways are not in case i need to slip out them. i would use the same strategies inside- flip on the foyer lights while i stand up the stairs in the dark and decide if i need to kill a motherfucker (if i don't know them and they're in the house...99% yes).
 
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saw the 11-87P today and decided to buy it. $750 including all transfer fees which was a great price.

Was a FFL that operates out of his house, which was interesting. Standing in this guy's living room and I notice some spread eagle vag on his computer. Then another. Then some tits. He had a rotating porn screensaver that was somewhat distracting while I looked at the gun.
 
spidey07 said:
Ones job isnt to scare. It's to eliminate the threat. Bad guy doesn't enter alone.
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Most home robberies are done by an individual. If more than one person is breaking into your house, it doesn't matter if you have a shotgun or an AR, you are out numbered and possibly out gunned.

I have AR's and shotguns out the wazoo, but for home defense I keep my trusty Ruger Service Six or S&W 1911 within arms reach at all times.

I can use either handgun one handed. The other hand is needed to call the police or open doors if needed or to operate a flash light.
I'm sure a lot of you will say you can mount a flash light to your AR or shotgun, but in these types of situations you don't want an always on light:
1. It gives away our position
2. Bad guy knows presicely where to shoot.
3. It ruins your night vision.

Quick blips of the flash light are all that is needed so you can get a brief picture of what is there and you keep moving. You never want to be in the spot where your flash light was on.

Home defense isn't as much about the weapon, but about the preparation.
 
JeffreyLebowski said:
Most home robberies are done by an individual. If more than one person is breaking into your house, it doesn't matter if you have a shotgun or an AR, you are out numbered and possibly out gunned.

I have AR's and shotguns out the wazoo, but for home defense I keep my trusty Ruger Service Six or S&W 1911 within arms reach at all times.

I can use either handgun one handed. The other hand is needed to call the police or open doors if needed or to operate a flash light.
I'm sure a lot of you will say you can mount a flash light to your AR or shotgun, but in these types of situations you don't want an always on light:
1. It gives away our position
2. Bad guy knows presicely where to shoot.
3. It ruins your night vision.

Quick blips of the flash light are all that is needed so you can get a brief picture of what is there and you keep moving. You never want to be in the spot where your flash light was on.

Home defense isn't as much about the weapon, but about the preparation.
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Many good tactical lights have a momentary switch. Like where you push the lever up and the light is on, as soon as you let go, it's springs off.

I agree about handgun ease of use though. It's easy to hide, hold, and move around the house while leaving one hand free. You can mount something like a TLR-1s on handguns too btw. Mounts right by the trigger guard and you can active with thumb or finger...really cool actually.

However for me, I'm not a good enough shot with a handgun and probably wouldn't trust my shakey hands with adrenaline going. I'm much more likely to be effective with a shotgun with a good stock and buckshot. But as you and others have said it comes down to the person and the training moreso than the gun...however I believe most people can get by with the least amount of training and still be effective with shotgun vs a pistol.
 
the handgun this is a good argument, and that's why i, mostly by lonesome, don't hesisitate to recommend pistol grip (stockless) shotguns for home defense. i mean, most your defense barrels only have a front bead sight, anyway, and the first shot will be plenty accurate. followups may not be; but ideally you need to accomplish your goal on the first shot, or else i'd be doubtful that a) you should have a gun or b) that the situation warranted using a gun.

people gotta face it, an 18.5" or 20" shotgun with a full stock is still BIG.

it's not hard to do the crime-action-drama style 'cross your arms using the light arm as a platform for the pistol arm.' a decent light with a momentary pushbutton on the back is all you need, plus you obviously give yourself more flexibility with the light when using an unattached pistol.

attached lights need a momentary switch that be manipulated by your off hand (built into some pistol lights, prolly need a remote switch for a shotgun).
 
ruh roh, update on my maverick-

bought ammo today, royal buck #4 as rec'd by a local gunstore. looking online, seems like they did a good job of picking out what i wanted- reliable, deadly, minimal spread. i hear a lot of people saying 00 or similar effectively has more spread, since the larger projectiles kind of fill less area, i guess.

thoughts? doing the numbers, these springs (which are quite nicely made) contain 21 projectiles about the size of a .22 bullet (.24" diameter) but a little lighter...and they leave the barrel about 300fps faster...i think that'll do.

but anyway...i can only load two shells before the mag tube feels full. something's up. dammit.
 
TheNinja said:
And get a nice bright weapon mounted light and keep your house as dark as possible. I have a Streamlight TLR-1s, which set me back $120 mounted but worth it, imo. It has a momentary switch and an always on/off switch....very cool and easy.

Try this sometime...get up about 3am and walk around your house so you eyes get adjusted to the dark. Then take a 2 second 160 lumen light flash in your face at 10 yards and then look around and see how well you can see.

A light:

1. Let's you identify the target. - You can't go shooting at random sounds in your house. Especially in a busy neighborhood or if you have other family members. I would never fire at an unidentified target simple b/c the target was in my house. It's not worth the consequences for me. I don't want to kill a kid stealing my Xbox....sorry if you are such a warrior that you would do it b/c you are allowed by law to protect your house.

2. Shocks/disorients/blinds the target. - From my example above, they are now temporarily blind. If they already have their gun out they might try to shoot at the light but they sure won't be able to see your body or anything, they'll be blind firing. While you, on the other hand, can see everything in front of you.

3. Gives you 1-2 second drop on them after you identify if it turns into a firefight. It will naturally take their body at least 1 second to react to being blinding before they can fire (if they are armed). If they are unarmed, nail them with the light and yell loudly at them to get the F down on the ground NOW as they are about to get nailed with a load of 12G buckshot! They'll probably crap themselves and get down or try to run out the door which will be hard for them to find since they won't be able to see much. If they are armed, I'm shooting first.

They only drawback is that it can give away your position, but this drawback is small compared to the benefits of a light.
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Not really going against anything you say but you mention that you don't want to be shooting at random sounds in your house but you want the bad guy to be randomly shooting inside the house? Doesn't really make sense.
 
aw shit i mighta gotten RTFM'd like a retard.

there was a wooden dowl in the mag tube that comes out the threaded hole for the barrel mount. what the hell is that about?
 
brblx said:
ruh roh, update on my maverick-

bought ammo today, royal buck #4 as rec'd by a local gunstore. looking online, seems like they did a good job of picking out what i wanted- reliable, deadly, minimal spread. i hear a lot of people saying 00 or similar effectively has more spread, since the larger projectiles kind of fill less area, i guess.

thoughts? doing the numbers, these springs (which are quite nicely made) contain 21 projectiles about the size of a .22 bullet (.24" diameter) but a little lighter...and they leave the barrel about 300fps faster...i think that'll do.

but anyway...i can only load two shells before the mag tube feels full. something's up. dammit.
Click to expand...

read the manual or open the mag tube, some guns will have a round limiter, something to do with hunting laws I believe where you can only have 3 shells loaded, max.
 
Is there a plug in it?in pa a shotgun can only hold 3 shells for hunting so they have a wooden dowel in there.on the mossberg 500 you remove the barrel and the plug comes out

I type slow,i see you already figured it out
 
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pontifex said:
Not really going against anything you say but you mention that you don't want to be shooting at random sounds in your house but you want the bad guy to be randomly shooting inside the house? Doesn't really make sense.
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yeah it does.

you don't ever GIVE the bad guy anything to shoot at. if he erratically fires off some rounds at a noise in the dark (he shouldn't unless you RACK YOUR SHOTGUN) or in the direction of a blinding light, YES, he could very well harm someone in your house. but those odds are less than the odds that he will KILL YOU if you wander around your house, clearly carrying a shotgun and lit up like jesus christ.

edit: also thanks guys, figured the mag tube thing was related to some kind of silly regulation. stupid thing is i had already heard a rattle in the mag tube, lol, but i had written it off as a noisy spring.
 
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felt like making this comparison. maverick 88 center. may as well be any generic 'hunting' shotgun modded with an open 18.5" (min length) barrel. mag tube holds five 2 3/4" shells.

gunzes.jpg


top and bottom are airsoft and are 100% to scale. one is a cut down M4 that should be equivalent in length to an XM177 (or any 'commando' style M4 using the shorter barrel). the one that is just a wee three inches longer than the maverick is an M24 sniper rifle.

edit: also the pic illustrates why i hate most shotty stocks- look how much farther forward the trigger is, as compared to that M24. also the rifle has a much more robust grip. i'm honestly kind of afraid of the maverick hitting me in the face. if i don't do some kind of pistol grip (stock or not), i'll at least throw one on the front for control.
 
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brblx said:
ruh roh, update on my maverick-

bought ammo today, royal buck #4 as rec'd by a local gunstore. looking online, seems like they did a good job of picking out what i wanted- reliable, deadly, minimal spread. i hear a lot of people saying 00 or similar effectively has more spread, since the larger projectiles kind of fill less area, i guess.

thoughts? doing the numbers, these springs (which are quite nicely made) contain 21 projectiles about the size of a .22 bullet (.24" diameter) but a little lighter...and they leave the barrel about 300fps faster...i think that'll do.
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For defense, the numbers I've seen recommend going #1 or higher as that is the minimum to achieve more than 12 inches of penetration. #1 is damn near impossible to find anywhere, so people generally recommend 00 for home defense.
 
Jeeebus said:
For defense, the numbers I've seen recommend going #1 or higher as that is the minimum to achieve more than 12 inches of penetration. #1 is damn near impossible to find anywhere, so people generally recommend 00 for home defense.
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#1 is still easy to find. Check out sportsmansguide or ammunitiontogo. I think #1 is the smallest you can go and still have a bunch of "30 cal" sized projectiles, but I'm not sure.

I use federal tactical low-recoil 00. Grouping stays nice and tight. Still at 3" or so at 25 yards. Recoil is also nicer than #1 or #4 since all of those are still full powered.
 
ah. oh well, like i said- it'll do the job. gun store guy said something along the lines of 'go out to an open field and watch it destroy a steel plate' if i was not confident in it. said you can't fire it at their range (understandable).
 
brblx said:
edit: also the pic illustrates why I hate most shotty stocks- look how much farther forward the trigger is, as compared to that M24. also the rifle has a much more robust grip. i'm honestly kind of afraid of the maverick hitting me in the face. if i don't do some kind of pistol grip (stock or not), i'll at least throw one on the front for control.
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A lot of shotgun stocks are made a bit longer so they can be fitted properly. Put your arm out and make a 90 degree bend with your elbow, place the butt of your shotgun in the crook of your elbow.

The first joint on you index finger should be right where the trigger is, if its too far forward you should have the stock cut down, if your finger doesnt reach the trigger you need an extension.
 
It sounds like some people need to learn about The Box O' Truth!

schneiderguy said:
How is it bullshit?

# of times my AR has jammed on me: 0

I trust my AR to reload itself a lot more than I trust myself to rack a slide on a shotgun when I'm scared, full of adrenaline, and half asleep.

Honestly the "pump shotgun is the best for HD" is a myth. The AR15 is superior in every way unless you can't afford one.
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I had an AR jam last time I qualified - failure to eject and it drove a new round into the back of the old casing. I cleared it and kept going, but it took a few seconds. I don't recall ever having an issue with a pump shotgun.

FWIW, my go-to for home defense is a Glock 21SF with a Surefire X300.
 
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