YASeCT: guy goes ballistic after guards try to take his camera, gets shot at

[MrPickins]

I think a better question is: if you believe an officer is targeting you for no good reason and fear for your life, can you defend yourself?

You can defend your right to life with lethal force in many places in the US.

If you fear for your life, you should absolutely defend yourself. If you're dead, the courts aren't going to be able to do much for you...

Did the citizen in the video have any reason to fear for his life (before he attacked)? Or is this purely academic?

 

[JSt0rm]

Not necessarily. Laws prohibiting cameras in courthouses are legal and routinely upheld.

But there already were cameras in the room.

Again, not necessarily. A conference room in a public building is not, in some respects, a "public space," and I have no idea what rules the County had in place. Even if there were an unconstitutionally broad ban on cameras in that county, it would not give him the right to use force to defend his camera.

Well I guess we dont know if that was a public space. However there were many cameras rolling. So Im guessing it was legal.

That depends on one's perspective. Certainly he could have pulled off the camera and handed it to the officer without fear of any more physical conflict. As I said, I think the officers handled this badly but that didn't give him the right to use endless violence to defend himself.

I guess we will never know because nobody asked him for the camera.

Now we are getting into ridiculous e-peen internet tough guy talk. Your "resolution" of this situation would very likely lead to you sitting on Death Row. I find this kind of stupid rhetoric counter-productive and silly.

We are? We all plan on never being in a fucked up situation but you cant guarantee you wont be fighting for your life at some point. After a gun goes off, in this situation, I would be fighting for my life.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. That will be up to a jury.

Its Ohio. He fucked.

 

[JSt0rm]

If you fear for your life, you should absolutely defend yourself. If you're dead, the courts aren't going to be able to do much for you...

Did the citizen in the video have any reason to fear for his life (before he attacked)? Or is this purely academic?

The guy was tugging on the camera around his neck and hwne he said get off me and he didnt he threw punches at him. Then crappy cop pulled his gun shot it point blank and missed. At that point would you be fighting for your life or not?

 

[RampantAndroid]

If you fear for your life, you should absolutely defend yourself. If you're dead, the courts aren't going to be able to do much for you...

Did the citizen in the video have any reason to fear for his life (before he attacked)? Or is this purely academic?

I think that's the question, right? Guard grabs for his camera without announcing anything at all - grabbing a lanyard around his neck. Guy then strikes guard, gets free and backs off/disengages.

At this point, he sees a gun come out and re-engages, and then goes down biting as he is grabbed by a SECOND guard AFTER a shot is fired. It shouldn't be hard to argue he feared for his life from the second a gun was drawn, and with the opening of this being a lanyard around his neck being grabbed without the guard giving any commands or IDing himself as someone with authority (skipping straight to physical contact with someone who was just sitting there) I don't think it'd be at ALL hard for this guy to make a effective defense.

 

[MrPickins]

I think that's the question, right? Guard grabs for his camera without announcing anything at all - grabbing a lanyard around his neck. Guy then strikes guard, gets free and backs off/disengages.

At this point, he sees a gun come out and re-engages, and then goes down biting as he is grabbed by a SECOND guard AFTER a shot is fired. It shouldn't be hard to argue he feared for his life from the second a gun was drawn, and with the opening of this being a lanyard around his neck being grabbed without the guard giving any commands or IDing himself as someone with authority (skipping straight to physical contact with someone who was just sitting there) I don't think it'd be at ALL hard for this guy to make a effective defense.

The question is simple: did the man fear for his life before he came out swinging?

If you think he reasonably should have, you watched a different video than I did.

 

[RampantAndroid]

The question is simple: did the man fear for his life before he came out swinging?

If you think he reasonably should have, then you watched a different video than I did.

What I am saying is that the second the gun came out, there was absolutely a fear of grave bodily harm.

I am further saying that the guard's actions prior to gun coming out (grabbing the rope around his neck) also puts him in a position where, in absence of any words from the guard he would reasonable to react to get away.

The amount of force the guard used right off the bat is not justified in that video.

 

[JSt0rm]

Lets look at some self defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKdZgeesw68 <--broken eye socket

That guy did less then this "cop" and got hurt for real (of course he mistakenly picked on a mma fighter).

 

[JSt0rm]

The question is simple: did the man fear for his life before he came out swinging?

If you think he reasonably should have, you watched a different video than I did.

If you had a rope around your neck and someone started to try and control your body with that rope what would you think?

 

[highland145]

as an aside, it's amazing how that guy in the white shirt doesn't even flinch!

This X 100

 

[JSt0rm]

I like afte rthe gunshot you hear "What are you doing?!" lmao.

 

[MrPickins]

What I am saying is that the second the gun came out, there was absolutely a fear of grave bodily harm.

Yeah, the man who was having his face pummeled was definitely in fear of grave bodily harm, which is why the gun was pulled in the first place.

You can't claim self defense when you're the aggressor. There was absolutely no reason for him to attack like he did, and he's lucky he didn't get shot for it.

I am further saying that the guard's actions prior to gun coming out (grabbing the rope around his neck) also puts him in a position where, in absence of any words from the guard he would reasonable to react to get away.

The amount of force the guard used right off the bat is not justified in that video.

All of this may be true, but it doesn't give him the go-ahead to begin bashing the security officer in the face.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah, the man who was having his face pummeled was definitely in fear of grave bodily harm, which is why the gun was pulled in the first place.

You can't claim self defense when you're the aggressor. There was absolutely no reason for him to attack like he did, and he's lucky he didn't get shot for it.



All of this may be true, but it doesn't give him the go-ahead to begin bashing the security officer in the face.

Who put hands on who first?

 

[highland145]

The real question is where is SE?

 

[waggy]

Ok after watching it yet again the old guy with the gun needs to retire.

 

[highland145]

Ok after watching it yet again the old guy with the gun needs to retire.

He did after he fired the shots. "Oh, shit" x1000

 

[Pipeline 1010]

The question is simple: did the man fear for his life before he came out swinging?

If you think he reasonably should have, you watched a different video than I did.

True, it is a simple question but it is the wrong question. To fight back you don't have to be in fear for your life. You are allowed to fight back when being assaulted. A better question would be: was the man assaulted? It's kind of hard to imagine that a cop is allowed to grab something from you that is attached to a chord around your neck and yanking at it as you try to back away. ESPECIALLY with no verbal commands.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some back story and the cops were just looking for a reason to give it to this guy.

 

[brianmanahan]

The real question is where is SE?

yes, that is what we all want and NEED to know

come back my sandy friend

 

[JSt0rm]

True, it is a simple question but it is the wrong question. To fight back you don't have to be in fear for your life. You are allowed to fight back when being assaulted. A better question would be: was the man assaulted? It's kind of hard to imagine that a cop is allowed to grab something from you that is attached to a chord around your neck and yanking at it as you try to back away. ESPECIALLY with no verbal commands.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some back story and the cops were just looking for a reason to give it to this guy.

Was that guy even a cop? I mean they were all like "call 911!" a Real cop would be like "Bravo bravo we got us a live critter here that needs some beatin"

and lol at the guy telling him he was gonna get life for biting him.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Full unedited video. About 47 Minutes long.

At about 24 minutes in, the action hots up.

 

[kinev]

Look like sheriffs from the badges on their belts.

 

[Zorba]

The question is simple: did the man fear for his life before he came out swinging?

If you think he reasonably should have, you watched a different video than I did.

Is throwing a punch in defense of yourself when being assaulted around the neck not an appropriate level of force? If this was between two random guys on the street Skidmore could've shot the guy and gotten off in any Southern state, but throwing a punch is crossing the line?

I thought the rule was appropriate force to free yourself from the situation? Not that you had to sit there and take it until you feared for your life.

 

[JSt0rm]

I thought the rule was appropriate force to free yourself from the situation? Not that you had to sit there and take it until you feared for your life.

Nope. Everyone around here think the guy should of sat there and gotten molested on waited for his day in court. I can understand why a lawyer would say that as its job security for his bros but fuck that.

 

[Zorba]

True, it is a simple question but it is the wrong question. To fight back you don't have to be in fear for your life. You are allowed to fight back when being assaulted. A better question would be: was the man assaulted? It's kind of hard to imagine that a cop is allowed to grab something from you that is attached to a chord around your neck and yanking at it as you try to back away. ESPECIALLY with no verbal commands.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some back story and the cops were just looking for a reason to give it to this guy.

Considering it sounded like the guy was complaining about security to get into the meeting, I am sure there was some back story.

The cop that fired his gun should be charged. First, he was the aggressor, never gave any command, and then after firing his gun he just sat there, messing with his watch, looking at his phone, etc. I think if he was truly fearing for his life he wouldn't have just sat there while his buddy got bit.

Just remember if you are ever in this situation, you will never win against a cop, even a rental. Right or wrong, if you fight back you'll go to jail or the morgue and they will be a hero. I guarantee even if you killed a cop while they were raping you, you would be on death row.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

From spending some time, watching the video titled "unedited", in my earlier post.

One of the security guards, has been clearly somewhat badly injured by the man (who was shot at), as you can see he is bleeding, quite visibly.

When the police arrive (later in the video), it is called an "Accidental Discharge", a number of times.

Security seemed to be called, after the man (who was shot at), was accused of inappropriately touching the lady. That seemed to spark off the whole situation, and was why security were doing what they did.

 

[JSt0rm]

From spending some time, watching the video titled "unedited", in my earlier post.

One of the security guards, has been clearly somewhat badly injured by the man (who was shot at), as you can see he is bleeding, quite visibly.

When the police arrive (later in the video), it is called an "Accidental Discharge", a number of times.

Security seemed to be called, after the man (who was shot at), was accused of inappropriately touching the lady. That seemed to spark off the whole situation, and was why security were doing what they did.

He put the camera up to her name badge or some shit. People are so fucking weak. They were looking for any reason to get rid of the dude.