YART - What is teh stance for Creationists

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: tynopik

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: tynopik
well it's obvious no one's paying the slightest attention to what i'm actually saying

You finally figured it out.

well yes, for everyone else

sorry for expecting more from a moderator

there is only one thing left for you to do:

Do a barrel roll.

Jesus says it's super effective!

 

[angminas]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I have never seen people try so hard to bend science to fit into their religious beliefs.

I see atheists doing this all the time, too. Bending facts to fit beliefs is something that everybody does, to varying degrees. Not believing in God doesn't instantly make you magically immune to the failings of the human race.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: angminas

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I have never seen people try so hard to bend science to fit into their religious beliefs.

I see atheists doing this all the time, too. Bending facts to fit beliefs is something that everybody does, to varying degrees. Not believing in God doesn't instantly make you magically immune to the failings of the human race.

Who said it does?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: tynopik

Originally posted by: Nik
Burden of proof is on you, bub.

i am not here to defend religion or anything else

i am here merely to poke holes in whatever exceptionally silly argument catches my fancy

Late to the picnic, but here I am...


Let's see. One of the holes you attempted to poke is that God hasn't been a God of the gaps throughout the ages.

Next hole you attempted to poke: micro-evolution is accepted; evidence of micro-evolution, macro-evolution doesn't seem to have enough evidence.


Seems to me that you're attempting to fill in that gap with God, else you're merely arguing for the sake of argument.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: angminas

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I have never seen people try so hard to bend science to fit into their religious beliefs.

I see atheists doing this all the time, too. Bending facts to fit beliefs is something that everybody does, to varying degrees. Not believing in God doesn't instantly make you magically immune to the failings of the human race.

lol

re-read what I posted.

Creation Scientists (gimme a break) love to twist science to try to explain the parables of the Bible and fail miserably with the most ridiculous hypothesis' imaginable. They go to such lengths to try to convince others and themselves of the validity of their religious beliefs and end up looking incredibly foolish. The faithful then start spouting off these idiotic theories like they could possibly be true and it drags down their entire religion into a pit of silliness.

here is a prime example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16SE-N-8ys

I know there are others, but this one is just perfect.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory, arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

relax dude.

there is no counter argument needed. This discussion was about the position of Creationists. That position is summed up very easily: God made everything. That is the position.

Science tries to explain things using facts and evidence and repeatable experiments while following the tenets of logic. That is their position.

Invoking God requires no evidence because its all about faith. And faith doesn't like things such as facts and evidence because faith is irrational.

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: tynopik

Originally posted by: nerp

Originally posted by: tynopik

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Creationists don't think about such things. The logic necessary clashes with what the big book of fairy tales says about the invisible man in the sky. They ignore the hows and the whys because the bible doesn't say that intelligence is good.

the irony of you demonstrating the same narrow-minded, ignorant thinking you claim to oppose is quite amusing

No, he's correct. Being correct and critical of people who are completley ignoring the fossil record and even the story within their own DNA isn't close minded. It's the way to be.

he said they don't think about such things

this is clearly false because they have written many books and articles on such things

also they do not igore the fossil record or the 'story within their own dna'

just because you aren't familiar with their position doesn't mean they haven't put thought into it

perhaps you should educate yourself more before making such blanket statements?

there are intelligent arguments against creationism, but the only thing the responses here display is their own hypocritical ignorance

There is nothing hypocritical or ignorant about saying creationism is ridiculous and has no place in the discussion of evolution. Evolution happened over millions of years. Nothing you've linked, referenced or quoted from creationsits has any merit. Do some learning.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory, arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

relax dude.

there is no counter argument needed. This discussion was about the position of Creationists. That position is summed up very easily: God made everything. That is the position.

Science tries to explain things using facts and evidence and repeatable experiments while following the tenets of logic. That is their position.

Invoking God requires no evidence because its all about faith. And faith doesn't like things such as facts and evidence because faith is irrational.

It is not 100% faith - sure faith is the staple of religion, sure. Faith still has the same definition to a person who believes in religion as someone who doesn't - the definition doesn't change.

When you yourself cannot explain something, you have faith that it works just the same. The same applies for Christians (religions).

I will grant you that the term "faith" is overused though. Faith is different for everyone.

For instance in Christianity, while one person may not understand one of Jesus teachings and claim that it is faith, another might understand that particular teaching.

Got any evidence about your claims that faith is irrational?

I'm here - why don't you present a logical argument in support of yours? Generally, in my formal education, that is how things work...

-Kevin

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Got any evidence about your claims that faith is irrational?

I'm here - why don't you present a logical argument in support of yours? Generally, in my formal education, that is how things work...

-Kevin

In your education if you've ever had high school level biology, then you'd understand the gist of evolution.

Edit: I suppose the easiest proof that faith is irrational is that people "of faith" expect the gibbering nonsense that is ID should be taught in a science class.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory, arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

relax dude.

there is no counter argument needed. This discussion was about the position of Creationists. That position is summed up very easily: God made everything. That is the position.

Science tries to explain things using facts and evidence and repeatable experiments while following the tenets of logic. That is their position.

Invoking God requires no evidence because its all about faith. And faith doesn't like things such as facts and evidence because faith is irrational.

It is not 100% faith - sure faith is the staple of religion, sure. Faith still has the same definition to a person who believes in religion as someone who doesn't - the definition doesn't change.

When you yourself cannot explain something, you have faith that it works just the same. The same applies for Christians (religions).

I will grant you that the term "faith" is overused though. Faith is different for everyone.

For instance in Christianity, while one person may not understand one of Jesus teachings and claim that it is faith, another might understand that particular teaching.

Got any evidence about your claims that faith is irrational?

I'm here - why don't you present a logical argument in support of yours? Generally, in my formal education, that is how things work...

-Kevin

faith is irrational because it requires no proof or evidence that can be tested or verified. Faith is something you believe regardless of it being right or wrong.

Science is logic based requiring repeatable testing and facts to prove it.

Religion tells you the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. Science tells you that's a pile of crap. Faith tells you to believe it anyway. That's is why faith is irrational.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

Yes, because I'm fuckin leadin the pack! Look at me go, posting a mothafuckin storm up in this bitch! Just look at all my dozens of posts in this massive thread! Oh man, my post count and PPD are skyrocketing! Holy shit! Look out!! :Q

:roll:

Get a grip, dude. When someone posts a legitimate argument for religion, someone else will counter it. It happens all the time. If you're pointing fingers at us for not making legit counter arguments, maybe you should point fingers at them instead. If someone would actually post a legit religion-based argument, we WOULD counter argue properly.

However, it's a dead discussion, we've had it a billion times on AT and I've been on both sides of the issue. Neither side is going to make any new points that the other side hasn't already heard and believes to have already countered.

So don't come in here pointing fingers at anyone, get down off your soapbox, and stfukthnxbai.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Why is it that every time I see someone who argues on the side of religion with honest, non-inflammatory arguments, that the, apparently, "mature crowd" (Led by none other than jpeyton and Nik) immediately attack the person yet provide no viable proof to their argument. Everyone has hypocritical aspects to their life, but jeez, you claim someone arguing on the side of religion has no argument, yet you present no counter argument!

-Kevin

Yes, because I'm fuckin leadin the pack! Look at me go, posting a mothafuckin storm up in this bitch! Just look at all my dozens of posts in this massive thread! Oh man, my post count and PPD are skyrocketing! Holy shit! Look out!! :Q

:roll:

Get a grip, dude. When someone posts a legitimate argument for religion, someone else will counter it. It happens all the time. If you're pointing fingers at us for not making legit counter arguments, maybe you should point fingers at them instead. If someone would actually post a legit religion-based argument, we WOULD counter argue properly.

However, it's a dead discussion, we've had it a billion times on AT and I've been on both sides of the issue. Neither side is going to make any new points that the other side hasn't already heard and believes to have already countered.

So don't come in here pointing fingers at anyone, get down off your soapbox, and stfukthnxbai.

Clearly the religious people are the fanatical/irrational ones though :roll:

Since the Dead Sea scrolls verified the date that the Old Testament writings have attributed to them, and those writing predicted exactly what the New Testament stated (ie: They prophesied) - how do you explain that.

How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

I honestly don't have many questions that I am searching for on my mind right now - so I would be more than happy to debate your questions - though, admittedly, I am not particularly well versed in Creation vs. Evolution.

-Kevin

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek


Clearly the religious people are the fanatical/irrational ones though :roll:

Since the Dead Sea scrolls verified the date that the Old Testament writings have attributed to them, and those writing predicted exactly what the New Testament stated (ie: They prophesied) - how do you explain that.

How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

I honestly don't have many questions that I am searching for on my mind right now - so I would be more than happy to debate your questions - though, admittedly, I am not particularly well versed in Creation vs. Evolution.

-Kevin

Here we go again... "Science can't explain it, so there must be a God!"

 

[meltdown75]

no one here can ever explain shit on this topic. all anyone has is speculation. constipation of the brain, diarreah of the mouth. i think you all just like to read your own posts.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

Here we go again... "Science can't explain it, so there must be a God!"

a.k.a. "it can't be explained therefore it can be explained"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek


Clearly the religious people are the fanatical/irrational ones though :roll:

Since the Dead Sea scrolls verified the date that the Old Testament writings have attributed to them, and those writing predicted exactly what the New Testament stated (ie: They prophesied) - how do you explain that.

How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

I honestly don't have many questions that I am searching for on my mind right now - so I would be more than happy to debate your questions - though, admittedly, I am not particularly well versed in Creation vs. Evolution.

-Kevin

Here we go again... "Science can't explain it, so there must be a God!"

I never said that - not once. I just asked what your excuse was and how you would attempt to explain it.

Obviously you can infer from my signature that, being a Christian, I believe that everything happens for a purpose according to Gods plan - so, though I may not understand it, there was a reason for a particular phenomonon.

-Kevin

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: BZeto
There's a difference between microevolution (minor variations within species) and macroevolution (major variations between species). The former is observable and verifiable and the latter is not. There is no evidence anywhere that one species has evolved into another.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Nik]

Sigh. I really don't want to get involved in a religious discussion again here, but I guess I will. :frown:

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Since the Dead Sea scrolls verified the date that the Old Testament writings have attributed to them,

How so? Link to back up your claim?

and those writing predicted exactly what the New Testament stated (ie: They prophesied) - how do you explain that.

Explain what? That two pieces of written documents mention something similar? Yes, because there has never been two books written by different people that say the same thing in the history of mankind?

How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

Human nature. Luck. Coincidence. Happenstance. Fate. Destiny. Random occurrances. Just because I can't immediately explain the reason behind something happening doesn't mean some magical invisible zombie jesus in the sky made it happen.

I honestly don't have many questions that I am searching for on my mind right now - so I would be more than happy to debate your questions - though, admittedly, I am not particularly well versed in Creation vs. Evolution.

-Kevin

I don't have any questions; I'd just like to see a religious fanatic argue with something more than scripture and silly trite religious sayings.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek


Clearly the religious people are the fanatical/irrational ones though :roll:

Since the Dead Sea scrolls verified the date that the Old Testament writings have attributed to them, and those writing predicted exactly what the New Testament stated (ie: They prophesied) - how do you explain that.

How do you explain random phenomena around the world. Survivor stories. Feats of courage. What happens when science fails and you cannot figure it out?

I honestly don't have many questions that I am searching for on my mind right now - so I would be more than happy to debate your questions - though, admittedly, I am not particularly well versed in Creation vs. Evolution.

-Kevin

Here we go again... "Science can't explain it, so there must be a God!"

That isn't a fair argument, but that doesn't mean science will answer everything.

As for the bolded part....dude - that isn't proof of God at all. Its proof that people get lucky.
If you want to be religious about it, we can say that god has ordained, for everyone, set term limits here on earth. You can't make them happen more quickly and you can't delay it.

Anyways, these threads are amusing. Usually what you get is the following: extremeists on both camps who don't understand the basics of the other side and act like fucking cocky bitches. You got people saying "Zomg Evolution is just a THEORRRY - Darwinnn decried it all on his death bedd!!" and the other side saying, "YOUR GODZZ are beareded old men, LIES LIES".
Hellllllla retarded

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: BZeto
There's a difference between microevolution (minor variations within species) and macroevolution (major variations between species). The former is observable and verifiable and the latter is not. There is no evidence anywhere that one species has evolved into another.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

What's funny about that?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: BZeto
There's a difference between microevolution (minor variations within species) and macroevolution (major variations between species). The former is observable and verifiable and the latter is not. There is no evidence anywhere that one species has evolved into another.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

What's funny about that?

I'll leave it to you to think about it.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: BZeto
There's a difference between microevolution (minor variations within species) and macroevolution (major variations between species). The former is observable and verifiable and the latter is not. There is no evidence anywhere that one species has evolved into another.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

What's funny about that?

I'll leave it to you to think about it.

Hi I'm magomago and I want to participate but I'm not smart enough to know what's going on or how to cultivate my own thoughts.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Sigh. I really don't want to get involved in a religious discussion again here, but I guess I will.

Ha yea we never do seem to get very far in these. I think people, in the end, just agree to disagree. At the same time, I like to learn what other people think - it makes me search and analyze more about why I believe what I believe.

How so? Link to back up your claim?

Link - I know this is Wikipedia, but the entire article is cited with sources. So, taking from this article, they are dated between 150BC(E) and 70BC(E).

Everyone, religious or not should know that Jesus did walk the Earth. It has been proven. The point of difference between believers and non-believers is whether he was just some normal guy or otherwise.

Given that the Old Testament was written at that time (With our oldest copy (Dead Sea Scrolls) dating to the aforementioned dates), and the New Testament, written over 100 years later (Keep in my literature did not travel well back then) - the fact that it was 100% cohesive with the Old Testament in every facet is pretty remarkable.

Not only that, from a believers standpoint, the Jesus who did walk the world, fit perfectly between the dates we have for both the New Testament and Old Testament writings. Not only did he fit between those dates, but the miracles he performed in the New Testament also coincided with what was said that would happen in the Old Testament.

Furthermore, after 1000's of years since then, with the exception of adapting to the changing ways of modern culture, those pieces of literature have remained completely unchanged. Nobody, has changed so much as a word in over 2000 years (Though the Diet of Worms did omit books of the Apocrypha for certain denominations).

Explain what? That two pieces of written documents mention something similar? Yes, because there has never been two books written by different people that say the same thing in the history of mankind?

They don't say the same thing though. The older one prophesies about what would happen, and the newer one fulfills it. It was over 100 years of time difference (And that is just the oldest copies we have found) and they were perfectly cohesive. Not the same subject - they complimented each other more perfectly than any piece of literature in the history of the world.

Human nature. Luck. Coincidence. Happenstance. Fate. Destiny. Random occurrances. Just because I can't immediately explain the reason behind something happening doesn't mean some magical invisible zombie jesus in the sky made it happen.

I can't prove outside of my beliefs what is happening so we will have to agree to disagree. However, as, from what I have gathered, most Evolutionists put a lot of faith in Scientific Fact - does anyone care to calculate how incredibly incredibly small the percent chance that all of these lucky occurrences and theories seem to have associated with them?

I don't have any questions; I'd just like to see a religious fanatic argue with something more than scripture and silly trite religious sayings.

Well that is inherently flawed from the beginning. You argue with your material to form your conclusion and people against it will argue with theirs. You can't completely disallow the foundation of a persons belief in an argument. As for the argument that you don't believe there is any fact in the Bible - well, in all fairness, I believe that everything from an Evolutionary standpoint is theory still

-Kevin

 

[manowar821]

This is a saved response for such a topic. It amazes me that people can be so mindless, but I'm going to waste as little time on it as possible from now on.

Fucking stupid. So are the followers.

There are a millions different problems with the very idea of it. The most important being that there is no proof of any kind of gods or super-beings, whatsoever, much less their hand in the birth of our universe. Is there any way for you people to show evidence of your gods or super-men? Do you have proof that the entire universe is only x-years old? What makes your gods more special than the other fake ones before them? What makes them more real? What makes you think your gods would test our faith in such a way that sends the most intelligent, patient and wise of us to hell, while leaving the near ape-like retards such as yourself with a free ride to the heavenly father or whatever you call the spiteful fucker? How do you explain away thousands of years of evidence against religious bullshit, century after century of science slowly but surely doing away with make-believe and untested ideas with DATA and WORKING THEORIES? Data doesn't lie, people do. Where does the data come from? The cosmos. Where does religion come from? PEOPLE. What created your gods? Were they always there, transcending space and time? What makes you think the multiverse couldn't be a forever thing, then, instead? Guess what, M-theory is working on that very notion, it's a real possibility. The lack of proof and logic is damning. Lack of proof-negative is not proof-positive. You have no proof, no logical reason to believe. Believing in something and having faith in something you have no evidence for is not empowering or respectable, it's laughable.