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YAMST - Santa Clarita, CA High School

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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,941
126
Sadly, I agree with you. Any attempt at mass gun confiscation would result in political violence that would make Waco and Ruby Ridge look like nothing. There are evidently guys who have stockpiled many, many assault rifles.

The truly sad part is that the NRA has won already. It has served the interest of its benefactor, the fire arms industry, buy letting them sell hundreds of millions of guns to private citizen for massive profit. This success then becomes a self-sustaining rationale for not trying to solve the problem, which necessarily must include confiscation of all or at least most of the firearms in private hands. Which, as I said, I agree would have terrible consequences.
claw back the profits from these companies and do buy backs.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,155
2,730
136
I don't think you can. I don't think it can be done.
Confiscation can't be done. It would cause mass revolt. But this is really no surprise, almost no problems can be solved with one simple solution. The solution here is going to be multi-pronged and take decades.

But it starts by us choosing to stop making it worse. We have to start by curtailing the sale of firearms. We follow that up with buy back programs that start to reverse the flow of firearms. We then start by putting restrictions on the purchase of ammunition.
Note that none of these is an outright ban, they are all aimed at reducing the number of firearms, not removing the altogether. They are aimed at restricting the ownership of firearms to people that society deems fit to handle them in a safe manner. It is aimed at creating a 'well regulated Militia' with a emphasis on 'well regulated'. Notice how 'militia' is capitalized in that sentence? That is because it was something specific being named, it was not just a word for whoever owned a gun.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,660
352
136
Sadly, I agree with you. Any attempt at mass gun confiscation would result in political violence that would make Waco and Ruby Ridge look like nothing. There are evidently guys who have stockpiled many, many assault rifles.
Given this, does it make sense to continue trying to go after all the guns or does it make more sense to start dealing with the actual underlying issues such as mental health, ending the war on drugs, and getting serious about investigating the effects of mind-altering prescription drugs on our young people. That doesn't mean that we can't focus on improving gun laws too, but "ban all the guns" isn't anything more than an unobtainable fantasy at this point.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,193
3,125
126
I don't think you can. I don't think it can be done.
They're doing a pretty good job of it in England, it can be done anywhere. Not overnight, but where there's a will there's a way. You have to get people to get the notion that guns are for killing and we shouldn't have killing going on, period.
 
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Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,660
352
136
Confiscation can't be done. It would cause mass revolt. But this is really no surprise, almost no problems can be solved with one simple solution. The solution here is going to be multi-pronged and take decades.

But it starts by us choosing to stop making it worse. We have to start by curtailing the sale of firearms. We follow that up with buy back programs that start to reverse the flow of firearms. We then start by putting restrictions on the purchase of ammunition.
Note that none of these is an outright ban, they are all aimed at reducing the number of firearms, not removing the altogether. They are aimed at restricting the ownership of firearms to people that society deems fit to handle them in a safe manner. It is aimed at creating a 'well regulated Militia' with a emphasis on 'well regulated'. Notice how 'militia' is capitalized in that sentence? That is because it was something specific being named, it was not just a word for whoever owned a gun.
Your entire approach is based on the belief that more guns == more murders. This is supported by looking at Australia's bans and the ensuing drop in gun murders. This is contradicted by the increase in the amounts of guns in the U.S. during the same time period (AND the concurrent expiration of the assault rifle ban), which was accompanied with a similar drop in gun murders. This tells me that there are bigger variables at play in gun murder rates than simply the number of guns or access to guns or bans on types of guns.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,660
352
136
They're doing a pretty good job of it in England, it can be done anywhere.
I don't have the impression that private gun ownership in England was ever a big thing. It is a big thing here. A really big thing. As in most of my neighbors likely own multiple firearms. I'm not convinced that the two countries are comparable in solving this issue.

Not overnight, but where there's a will there's a way.
That's kind of my point. There isn't a will. So we need another way. Look deeper than people using guns. Look into WHY they are doing it. That issue is the underlying cause and I think we should work on that as the highest priority.

You have to get people to get the notion that guns are for killing and we shouldn't have killing going on, period.
Guns are for shooting bullets, not for killing. That's it. Why do we have to convince people of things that aren't true? Almost everyone who has ever bought a gun didn't buy it to kill a human. Almost every bullet ever fired has not been aimed at a human. I agree that we shouldn't have killing going on. Let's give priority to fixing the "why" over fixing the "how".
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
7,030
852
126
The shooter has died, so we may never know the why for this one.



The kid sounds pretty normal based on that article. The two things I would like to know - was he seeing a therapist and was he taking psychotropic drugs.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,193
3,125
126
I don't have the impression that private gun ownership in England was ever a big thing. It is a big thing here. A really big thing. As in most of my neighbors likely own multiple firearms. I'm not convinced that the two countries are comparable in solving this issue.



That's kind of my point. There isn't a will. So we need another way. Look deeper than people using guns. Look into WHY they are doing it. That issue is the underlying cause and I think we should work on that as the highest priority.



Guns are for shooting bullets, not for killing. That's it. Why do we have to convince people of things that aren't true? Almost everyone who has ever bought a gun didn't buy it to kill a human. Almost every bullet ever fired has not been aimed at a human. I agree that we shouldn't have killing going on. Let's give priority to fixing the "why" over fixing the "how".
My friend, you are kidding yourself. We have to change public opinion, that is crucial. The will of the people. You say: "Guns are for shooting bullets, not for killing." Gimme a break. You can't even see those bullets in the air while they are flying at super sonic speeds. Go to bed with your bullets, shoot them, love them. Hold them, snuggle up to them. Smell them, taste them. Happiness is a warm gun.... Case closed.

 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
16,099
3,711
136
I think his 45 was a 6 shooter. He killed two, wounded three, put the last bullet in his head (might have come out the other side). They said the clip was empty.
Don't say "clip", it triggers gun owners.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,660
352
136
My friend, you are kidding yourself. We have to change public opinion, that is crucial. The will of the people. You say: "Guns are for shooting bullets, not for killing." Gimme a break.
If guns are only for or even mainly for killing, then why are they almost always used for something else? As in a tenth of a percent rounding error from being zero? Either that's not why people get guns or guns are shit at doing their "job".
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,941
126
If guns are only for or even mainly for killing, then why are they almost always used for something else? As in a tenth of a percent rounding error from being zero? Either that's not why people get guns or guns are shit at doing their "job".
So people get guns for trivial shit that not worth the lives lost?
 
Mar 11, 2004
20,863
3,032
126
So people get guns for trivial shit that not worth the lives lost?
How dare you castigate their fleshlights and surrogate penises!

Sure they're mostly using guns for target shooting to practice aim. Which, uh, why would you need to practice aim? It couldn't be because you want to be prepared to shoot something accurately, mostly for the best kill shot. But yep, guns aren't about killing at all! Just you wait, these gun nuts are gonna prove the earth is flat by shooting cameras in the air to prove it is! Rockets can't be trusted because they're controlled by the Deep State!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,976
19,663
136
Read it's a 15 yo kid. Wonder where he got the gun? I hope he didn't get it from his parents, as that would be irresponsible security on their part.
DO you think the parents would have always been irresponsible owners at that point, or just when the kid got their gun(s) to go all murdering?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,976
19,663
136
How dare you castigate their fleshlights and surrogate penises!

Sure they're mostly using guns for target shooting to practice aim. Which, uh, why would you need to practice aim? It couldn't be because you want to be prepared to shoot something accurately, mostly for the best kill shot. But yep, guns aren't about killing at all! Just you wait, these gun nuts are gonna prove the earth is flat by shooting cameras in the air to prove it is! Rockets can't be trusted because they're controlled by the Deep State!
I've always been a big fan of the "I buy my guns to shoot paper plates" argument. ....It's just so fucking precious.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,193
3,125
126
If guns are only for or even mainly for killing, then why are they almost always used for something else? As in a tenth of a percent rounding error from being zero? Either that's not why people get guns or guns are shit at doing their "job".
That's called rationalization.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,006
790
126
How many ways are there to kill a person, other than use a gun? Better find a way to eliminate those too. Rational arguments are not in some people's wheel house. Something is making these people choose a weapon, then kill others. Better get that one figured out.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
How many ways are there to kill a person, other than use a gun? Better find a way to eliminate those too. Rational arguments are not in some people's wheel house. Something is making these people choose a weapon, then kill others. Better get that one figured out.
Hi. This is a poorly constructed argument. Please try again.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,191
5,279
136
How many ways are there to kill a person, other than use a gun? Better find a way to eliminate those too. Rational arguments are not in some people's wheel house. Something is making these people choose a weapon, then kill others. Better get that one figured out.
Bare hands.
Knife.
Pistol.
Semi auto.
Assault Rifle
Explosive devices.
Nuclear device

What is the escalation factor? Why break at semi?

Las Vegas shooting, 58 dead, 413 injured.
Hard to pull off with your bare hands.
Hard to pull off with a knife.
Even hard to pull off with just a pistol.(unless u r john wick)
You might even have your task cut out with a semi.

So the factor here is damage pr. second. Some countries even put that limit around certain types knives. You guys are way down the list with "bump stocks".

(ps. I love guns).
 

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