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Jaskalas said:
against Republican voters.
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At least you acknowledge that the white supremacists are Republicans. As far as violence against white supremacists, you meet
glenn1 said:
Anything is better than being a progressive.
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... even coddling up to Russians. As said by Trump supporters, "Better Russian than Democrat!"

We get it, you're all in on the Great White Nationalist Revolt and the killing of innocent people, all to keep your money and guns.
 
TheVrolok said:
What are you talking about? I don't disagree with his opinion at all, in fact I said what he literally said about the numbers is absolutely correct.. But his premise is based, just like Slows, that we aren't already doing tons about the other issues, or, that we can't do it all to a degree simultaneously. Please tell me what is "me me me" about my post, be specific.

I don't have any emotion tied up in these shootings, I'm not related in any way to either of them. I don't feel any sense of loss. Its just that saying "well, other stuff kills more people" is a pretty dumb policy argument.

So what if he's a brilliant astrophysicist? Why do you think that makes him smarter than anyone on this forum? By extension, why do you think he knows more than anyone on this forum? (that's a pretty inane thing to assume)

He's obviously a content expert on astrophysics, but that doesn't mean he knows anything about gun violence. I'm a big NdGT fan, and listen to StarTalk regularly.. NGT says dumb things unrelated to astrophysics all the time, so what?

Talk about appeal to authority...
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Then I misread your post, but I do not agree with your assessment of it, as I don't think he was trying to downplay it, but trying to put some levity on it the subject.
 
glenn1 said:
The left being afraid is good. Maybe they’ll think twice before trying to impose their proletariat revolution on the rest of us. Maybe they’ll remember the people whose wealth they want to distribute might not voluntarily go along with that.
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The Rich have historically employed thugs to have their way with recalcitrant populations. It still works that way in a lot of the world. The whole idea of democracy runs counter to such power, obviously, & the only revolution progressives want is one at the ballot box.
 
glenn1 said:
The left being afraid is good. Maybe they’ll think twice before trying to impose their proletariat revolution on the rest of us. Maybe they’ll remember the people whose wealth they want to distribute might not voluntarily go along with that.
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The Rich have historically employed thugs to have their way with recalcitrant populations. It still works that way in a lot of the world. The whole idea of democracy runs counter to such power, obviously, & the only revolution progressives want is one at the ballot box.
 
HomerJS said:
Know what gets them upset?
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IronWing said:
Taxes on rich people.
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My turn...

Others noticing that the very vast majority of them are not rich but that they do the bidding of the rich anyway... For free... At a cost to all... So not free...

It's instinctive... Never will be rich but they think if they hate on the other half of the poor folk enough they'll get noticed and might get a cursory hand job from a gremlin meth whore with chiclet teeth and a meat curtain change purse pinata they can tongue punch repeatedly for loose pennies...
 
Greenman said:
I don't believe that Trump is inciting mass murder.
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You should probably pay more attention, then. (this means changing the permanent channel on those break room contractor/auto/dentist/whatever waiting room TVs to anything but Fox Propaganda.--this is explicitly why this country is ill-informed. That's a true fact)

Trump doesn't even have to have intent, to be responsible. You understand that, right?
 
Jaskalas said:
The reason we fail to control guns in this nation, 2A aside, is the FEAR people have of OTHERS with guns.

So yes, they carry to protect themselves from mass shooters.
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bullshit. mass shootings only became a real thing when the NRA became a mass lobbying group in the late 70s, totally changing the game, going political, and created a political wedge issue that didn't exist for the previous 200 or so years. That's just math and plain observation.

mass shootings exist because the NRA ammosexuals and the murder terrorist party that is the GOP has made one of its core platforms the legal murder of anyone that doesn't look like you. Fear everyone. Fear them now, fear them tomorrow. Arm yourself and shoot first, because holy shit: I need a new fur coat. That is America. If you vote GOP, you support radical terrorism against the USA. It is no other way, and that is a true fucking fact.
 
glenn1 said:
The left being afraid is good. Maybe they’ll think twice before trying to impose their proletariat revolution on the rest of us. Maybe they’ll remember the people whose wealth they want to distribute might not voluntarily go along with that.
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So you're in favor of the random mass murder of people solely because of their political speech? Even assuming your paranoid dementia here were accurate (and it isn't, and I'm an ardent capitalist), I'd still say you're the greater threat to freedom. If not just a fucking criminal.
 
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glenn1 said:
Oh you’re gonna call me a bad name, that will will teach me. Next I’m sure you’ll probably call me a virgin or something.
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You argued in favor of mass murder of innocents based on delusional paranoia. You're so irrationally afraid that some people might steal a few dollars from you that you want to steal their lives.
With that in mind, you deserve every insult cast at you.
 
senseamp said:
I love how you immediately equated "white supremacists" to "Republican voters." 🙂
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As if men attacking "Muslim Terrorists" on the streets would stop solely at actual terrorists. Instead of, themselves, terrorizing Muslims in general.

The parallel is absolute between the two issues. Of collective punishment and attacking a wide group for the violence of a few. You even laugh at and seem to enjoy washing away the distinctions. Where as I am warning you that your vaunted vigilantes, as judge, jury, and executioners will decide who is guilty. They will harm innocent people.

And Republican voters, in general, will see such targeting of others - but identify with them. Polarization and fear will DRIVE THEM towards the White Supremacists. Because you will leave no middle ground. No path to escape to safety. You are championing collateral damage on a scale that you cannot even imagine.

But such arguments were made against me, and other supporters of the "War on terror" for many years here over a decade ago. Opponents of "taking action" against Muslims won the day, thankfully. But I do not think anyone is calling for calm today. I see hatred on both sides, I see a large scale desire for vengeance, consequences be damned.

If your only idea of a solution is for us all to pick up guns... then I guess you've already decided how all this should end?
 
Amused said:
Your disagreement is with reality then. Because that is, in fact, the case.

And when black people protested with Black Lives Matters, what did police do? The single most dismissive and racist thing they could do. They created Blue Lives Matters.

Fuck. All. OF. That.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_John_Crawford_III

Look up the video of that. The guy was just talking on his phone. No warning. The cop snuck up on him and shot him.
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I just watched the video of the Crawford shooting with the 911 call audio synced to it. Yup, IMHO, they yelled commands at him and then shot him a split second later without giving him, IMHO, a real chance to drop the weapon. Epic stupidity to walk around swinging an unpackaged pellet gun to begin with, but that doesn't make it okay to shoot the poor guy without giving him a chance to drop it.

But realize Crawford was clearly swinging the gun back and forth, and cops doesn't have to wait until you point a gun at them to shoot if they reasonably perceive a threat to the their safety or the safety of others. Which is why the cop(s) were not indited.

That said, the way cops rush in and force confrontations with armed suspects is almost barbaric. They could have contained the area and given commands from cover rather then rush in gun blazing. And the reports, changing stories and the treatment of Crawford's girlfriend during questioning afterwards was utterly shameful. They were obviously trying to put a spin on an otherwise questionable shooting and careers should have ended for that alone.

But your assertion that had he been white they would not have shot him is extremely questionable at very the least. And the fact that you and others use rare examples like this to brand all police as racist killers is epic bullshit. Just like it's epic bullshit to judge all minorities by the bad acts of a few.

But if you want to keep claiming that race is the deciding factor in shoots like this then I can't stop you. Just understand that as long as you make this about race, and keep claiming all cops are racist killers, it will be that much harder to get the reform in police tactics we need to reduce the number of shootings like Crawford's.
 
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Sunburn74 said:
How many black guys have been killed when trying not to fight the cops because the cop allegedly saw a weapon? Black guys have been shot for getting IDs at the cops request.
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Yes they have and it's utterly shameful and I am for fully prosecuting any cop who is involved in a bad shoot. Police tactics need to evolve from the current aggressive "never back down" to a policy of containment and deescalation when possible.

But I totally disagree shootings like Crawford's is anything even close to the norm. Remember, there are somewhere between 750,000 and 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the country. Each one makes many contacts with the public each shift and it's rather rare that they have to draw their weapon. It's even more rare that they have to fire their weapon. And if they do have to shoot someone it's damn rare that it's found to be a bad shoot. So fucking rare that it makes the news, sparks outrage and we end up talking about on forums like these. Where, unfortunately, some automatically assume it must have been racially motivated.
 
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balloonshark said:
terrorism
[ ter-uh-riz-uh m ]

noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
________________________________________________________________________________________

You just admitted that you think it's "good" to see terrorism against half the country in a mass shooting topic. Maybe you should voluntarily give up your guns and seek help before you hurt someone.
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If you are such a coward but you’re afraid of inanimate objects like firearms then “terrorism” is completely redundant.
 
HomerJS said:
I didn't see 2nd hand smoke on his list.

BTW - You guys used to hate NDT. Now you're a fan?

I guarentee if Neil had said that after the Boston Bombing or Fort Hood you righties would switch your opinions on Neil faster then Jan 20 2017.
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I've always been a fan of NdT, I follow him on Facebook even (and have for years). Just watched a video he posted about a super smart border collie that passed away, it could recall the names of literally ~1000 different dog toys and showed intelligence by finding toys it never saw before via process of elimination. It was really amazing. But to you point, you are wrong, NdT is someone I'm a big fan of. And I like him even more for this. It isn't that he is trivializing gun deaths, but he is accurately pointing out that the state of fear you anti-2A'ers live in due to legal firearms is COMPLETELY unfounded. The only difference between firearms deaths and these many other much larger killers is the media blows up firearms deaths to make it seem like a much bigger issue statistically than it is. You are very, very unlikely to be killed by firearms in this country. So for you liberals that are so ready to abandon rights that you don't have a personal affinity for, you should know you're telling the rest of us to do the same over what is a statistical drop in the bucket.
 
SlowSpyder said:
I've always been a fan of NdT, I follow him on Facebook even (and have for years). Just watched a video he posted about a super smart border collie that passed away, it could recall the names of literally ~1000 different dog toys and showed intelligence by finding toys it never saw before via process of elimination. It was really amazing. But to you point, you are wrong, NdT is someone I'm a big fan of. And I like him even more for this. It isn't that he is trivializing gun deaths, but he is accurately pointing out that the state of fear you anti-2A'ers live in due to legal firearms is COMPLETELY unfounded. The only difference between firearms deaths and these many other much larger killers is the media blows up firearms deaths to make it seem like a much bigger issue statistically than it is. You are very, very unlikely to be killed by firearms in this country. So for you liberals that are so ready to abandon rights that you don't have a personal affinity for, you should know you're telling the rest of us to do the same over what is a statistical drop in the bucket.
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Why are you a fan of the Iman of the WH, Trump, who is now blaming media who factually covers what he says, the inspiration of people like the shooter here. This really isn't about guns nearly as much as the hate behind the act, which you support. Yes, Trump and his supporters more than weapons are responsible for promoting acts like these. Trump is blaming anyone else and so will you.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Why are you a fan of the Iman of the WH, Trump, who is now blaming media who factually covers what he says, the inspiration of people like the shooter here. This really isn't about guns nearly as much as the hate behind the act, which you support. Yes, Trump and his supporters more than weapons are responsible for promoting acts like these. Trump is blaming anyone else and so will you.
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You have to fill in a lot of gaps with projection to get from anything Trump says to a mass shooting at a Walmart. I don't think Trump ever suggested that someone go kill innocent victims randomly at a Walmart.
 
SlowSpyder said:
You have to fill in a lot of gaps with projection to get from anything Trump says to a mass shooting at a Walmart. I don't think Trump ever suggested that someone go kill innocent victims randomly at a Walmart.
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He inspired the hate and someone agreed and acted, just like the wannabomber, who was also inspired by Trump. Donnie was his hero because of what he says and does, the things you defend. Top level religious leaders point out the evil of the Great Satan and others act as this guy did. Since they cannot control their inspired hate those who responsibly own and use firearms will suffer. Better than calling out Trump who even now in this hour is saying that his immigration vision needs to be passed when his alarmism is responsible for things like this.

So please stop talking about weapons as you asked for this. Oh you didn't want it, but you asked regardless.

Didn't ask to shoot up a Walmart? I don't think Pinochet was that specific either and he had the power that Trump is prevented from having only by his opposition.

You and yours own this inspired manipulative hate and we all will suffer except for Trump of course. In another quirk of latin quotes "Ecce Homo"
 
SlowSpyder said:
You have to fill in a lot of gaps with projection to get from anything Trump says to a mass shooting at a Walmart. I don't think Trump ever suggested that someone go kill innocent victims randomly at a Walmart.
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Well that’s the whole thing, isn’t it. According to his manifesto he wasn’t killing people randomly, he was killing Hispanic people in order to terrorize them into leaving the country.

Trump routinely engages in racist and violent rhetoric against Hispanic migrants and describes the situation on the border as an ‘invasion’ and an ‘infestation’. Anyone with a brain can pretty easily draw A->B there.

As Hayabusa mentions it’s a similar situation with the MAGAbomber. He was maybe not the most stable guy to begin with and was radicalized by Trump and right wing media to the point he started trying to kill people.

I know you and Trump will never own up to his and right wing media’s role in radicalizing these people because that would require humility and admitting you were wrong. I’m sure here just like everything else with guns you’ll pretend it’s everything else’s fault.
 
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