YAMST El Paso Wall Mart

[dainthomas]

He's right on. When a shooting kills people it is plastered all over the news and people shit their pants. But the number of people murdered by firearms in this country is a drop in the bucket compared to other things that kill us. The only difference is the media doesn't put it in your face for clicks and revenue when 5x as many innocent people a year die from second hand smoke. But, I bet you go on the street, a college campus, and ask which we have to do more to limit, tobacco (or alcohol) use or firearms and the answer will overwhelmingly be to limit firearms further. But the reality is that firearms kill far fewer people, but firearms homicides are magnified to a degree nowhere near the scale of their actual harm to society.

How many people died on 9/11? Where does that fall on the "second hand smoke-falling out of bed" scale of deaths? Why did we start multi-trillion dollar wars over such a statistically insignificant number?

 

[SlowSpyder]

How about Zero. If there were millions we would know about it.

Your point is moot. Nobody is losing their 2A rights.

Felons?

 

[Vic]

Felons?

It's not a violation of one's Constitutional rights to lose a right through legal due process.

But are you saying that you want felons to be able to legally own and carry guns too?

 

[SlowSpyder]

How many people died on 9/11? Where does that fall on the "second hand smoke-falling out of bed" scale of deaths? Why did we start multi-trillion dollar wars over such a statistically insignificant number?

The thing about an event like 9/11 is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum, there is/was untold fallout from events that happened since and because of 9/11. It would be a pretty hard comparison to make, but if we count the Iraq war and troops in Afghanistan (and possibly even further down the line, ISIS and unrest in Syria and other countries) and are willing to factor in the deaths and pain caused over there in addition to the actual 9/11 event, I think it would be easy to argue that 9/11 has a much bigger impact. I really think that deaths from second hand smoke and the damage to society, the body count related to 9/11 are tough to compare.

 

[Vic]

So...we going to forget about those felons?

So are we concerned about felons' right to bear arms, but not their right to life and liberty as we lock them in prisons and sometimes execute them?
Obviously, some rights can (and should) be revoked through legal due process.

 

[Vic]

The thing about an event like 9/11 is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum, there is/was untold fallout from events that happened since and because of 9/11. It would be a pretty hard comparison to make, but if we count the Iraq war and troops in Afghanistan (and possibly even further down the line, ISIS and unrest in Syria and other countries) and are willing to factor in the deaths and pain caused over there in addition to the actual 9/11 event, I think it would be easy to argue that 9/11 has a much bigger impact. I really think that deaths from second hand smoke and the damage to society, the body count related to 9/11 are tough to compare.

What happened in El Paso didn't happen in a vacuum either.

And you apparently need to be reminded yet again that the liberals and Democrats spent decades addressing the issue of second hand smoke, and were eventually successful in passing legislation banning workplace smoking, etc. That issue has been successfully resolved by the liberals and Democrats as effectively as any issue can ever be resolved through govt. And they did all of that over the objections of conservatives and Republicans.

 

[dainthomas]

The thing about an event like 9/11 is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum, there is/was untold fallout from events that happened since and because of 9/11. It would be a pretty hard comparison to make, but if we count the Iraq war and troops in Afghanistan (and possibly even further down the line, ISIS and unrest in Syria and other countries) and are willing to factor in the deaths and pain caused over there in addition to the actual 9/11 event, I think it would be easy to argue that 9/11 has a much bigger impact. I really think that deaths from second hand smoke and the damage to society, the body count related to 9/11 are tough to compare.

The fallout was a choice. GWB could have just said "thoughts and prayers" or blamed the media/liberals and said that was the end of it. Multiple white supremacist shootings in one day seems like a pretty big deal too, but watch conservative politicians/media try to sweep it under the rug.

 

[purbeast0]

Trump is such a swell guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158422451245789184

 

[dainthomas]

So are we concerned about felons' right to bear arms, but not their right to life and liberty as we lock them in prisons and sometimes execute them?
Obviously, some rights can (and should) be revoked through legal due process.

Republicans are definitely not concerned about felons' right to vote either. See Florida.

 

[fskimospy]

The fallout was a choice. GWB could have just said "thoughts and prayers" or blamed the media/liberals and said that was the end of it. Multiple white supremacist shootings in one day seems like a pretty big deal too, but watch conservative politicians/media try to sweep it under the rug.

It is kind of funny watching the mental gymnastics where he decides that 30,000 yearly deaths is trivial as compared to second hand smoking but the one-time death of 3,000 people was special and demanded a policy response.

 

[ImpulsE69]

So are we concerned about felons' right to bear arms, but not their right to life and liberty as we lock them in prisons and sometimes execute them?
Obviously, some rights can (and should) be revoked through legal due process.

Personally I believe, there are different rights to be considered for each stage of their incarceration determined by the crime they commited, however he said none had their rights taken, I was pointing out that he was wrong.

 

[SlowSpyder]

It's not a violation of one's Constitutional rights to lose a right through legal due process.

But are you saying that you want felons to be able to legally own and carry guns too?

The question was how many people have lost their gun rights over the last 50 years. I said probably millions, perhaps more even. They lost their gun rights through due process, by the laws as they are now. What are you getting at?

 

[SlowSpyder]

It is kind of funny watching the mental gymnastics where he decides that 30,000 yearly deaths is trivial as compared to second hand smoking but the one-time death of 3,000 people was special and demanded a policy response.

I didn't say it demanded a policy response, I'm not talking what could of or should have happened, I'm talking about what did happen. This is history now. So that makes the comparison tougher to do, as there were quite a few down stream effects due to 9/11, whether you or I like it or not, that's how it played out.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Trump is such a swell guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158422451245789184

Holy shit there was a movie recently about this very thing....

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I didn't say it demanded a policy response, I'm not talking what could of or should have happened, I'm talking about what did happen. This is history now. So that makes the comparison tougher to do, as there were quite a few down stream effects due to 9/11, whether you or I like it or not, that's how it played out.

Technically there were quite a few down stream effects due to USA's response to 9/11. We chose to go to war upon being provoked.

 

[SlowSpyder]

What happened in El Paso didn't happen in a vacuum either.

And you apparently need to be reminded yet again that the liberals and Democrats spent decades addressing the issue of second hand smoke, and were eventually successful in passing legislation banning workplace smoking, etc. That issue has been successfully resolved by the liberals and Democrats as effectively as any issue can ever be resolved through govt. And they did all of that over the objections of conservatives and Republicans.

Do me a favor, can you find a body count due to white nationalism over the last few decades? I bet the number is pretty tiny, statistically.

 

[soundforbjt]

Do me a favor, can you find a body count due to white nationalism over the last few decades? I bet the number is pretty tiny, statistically.

Not compared to the deaths by the left.

 

[Vic]

Do me a favor, can you find a body count due to white nationalism over the last few decades? I bet the number is pretty tiny, statistically.

I bet that number is not tiny to the persons behind those statistics.

And I'm not going to do you that favor, because I already posted similar statistics and examples in other threads (like when you were arguing that someone getting their MAGA hat knocked off was some kind of existential crisis), and you simply ignored what I posted.

And that's where we need to keep you in perspective. Because to you, if a MAGA gets their hat knocked off, it's is a national crisis, and an outrage if that example of 'unhinged leftism' is not covered in depth by every media outlet. But if a MAGA murders 20 people, then to you, that's just an insignificant statistic, a 'drop in the bucket compared to the other things that kill us.'
Stop and think about that, guy. Then consider stepping away from the keyboard for a while. Take a break, and maybe go out and have some real life discussions with some of those 'unhinged leftists' whose murders you would consider to be 'insignificant statistics.'

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Do me a favor, can you find a body count due to white nationalism over the last few decades? I bet the number is pretty tiny, statistically.

The follow-on effects, as you stated earlier, could be pretty significant here. What happens when this continues, and in another 20 years, white people are in the minority? What happens in America when the minority is committing hate crimes against everyone else?

We've been down this road before, many times, it's fucking ugly man.

 

[glenn1]

Do me a favor, can you find a body count due to white nationalism over the last few decades? I bet the number is pretty tiny, statistically.

The biggest casualty in the last few years have been federal gun control bills and the resulting slow painful deaths of the dreams of those who support them. In a few weeks (if not days) the attention span will have moved on and calls for bans will go back into hibernation for a while. It's the great circle of life, like cicadas a brood of gun control dreams in the millions take flight making lots of noise and then they're all gone shortly thereafter.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The Democrats sent up a background check bill in February which the Senate has failed to act on and the President has failed to mention. The GOP doesn't want to pass anything related to gun control ever, no matter what.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/house-vote-gun-background-check/index.html

Submit what is substantially the same thing in the spirit of making the nation safer in a way that Trump supports. Do this and divide the Republicans and maybe get something done.

 

[Vic]

Trump is such a swell guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158422451245789184

The President is trying to start a civil war.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The follow-on effects, as you stated earlier, could be pretty significant here. What happens when this continues, and in another 20 years, white people are in the minority? What happens in America when the minority is committing hate crimes against everyone else?

We've been down this road before, many times, it's fucking ugly man.

I imagine it is ugly. But, I think right now, even when taking the current tragedies into account, the number of people killed by white nationalists is not large. I'm not saying we should ignore it, a minor threat now can become a much bigger threat later if close tabs aren't kept on it.

 

[Vic]

The biggest casualty in the last few years have been federal gun control bills and the resulting slow painful deaths of the dreams of those who support them. In a few weeks (if not days) the attention span will have moved on and calls for bans will go back into hibernation for a while. It's the great circle of life, like cicadas a brood of gun control dreams in the millions take flight making lots of noise and then they're all gone shortly thereafter.

Well of course you want guns to be in the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, because if not your agenda of instigating acts of terrorism against those whose political speech you disagree with would be less effective.

 

[Vic]

I imagine it is ugly. But, I think right now, even when taking the current tragedies into account, the number of people killed by white nationalists is not large. I'm not saying we should ignore it, a minor threat now can become a much bigger threat later if close tabs aren't kept on it.

You have said repeatedly that we should ignore it. "An insignificant drop in the bucket compared to the other things that kill us."