YAGT: OMG I love guns

[RandomAhearne]

Alright, crazy double barreled shot gun aside. Does anyone have any info on a 10 mm?

We do a lot of hiking and I was floating the idea of getting one in case of black bear encounters. Ok, I just want an excuse to by another gun.

I hear it has a lot of muzzle flip like the .40 S&W which makes sense being that the .40 is basically a 10 mm short.

 

[adairusmc]

Alright, crazy double barreled shot gun aside. Does anyone have any info on a 10 mm?

We do a lot of hiking and I was floating the idea of getting one in case of black bear encounters. Ok, I just want an excuse to by another gun.

I hear it has a lot of muzzle flip like the .40 S&W which makes sense being that the .40 is basically a 10 mm short.

I am a huge fan of the 10mm, and own a few different handguns in that caliber. Recoil all depends on ammo, most off the shelf stuff is the "FBI lite" loads that are more or less s .40 Short&Weak +p. True 10mm spec ammo is right around 41 magnum ballistics. About 10 years or so ago Ted Nugent used a Glock 20 to drop a charging Cape buffalo with double tap ammo, it would definitely handle a black bear.

Currently I run a Kimber Eclipse, Glock 20, and Glock 29. It really is a great caliber, and is far superior to its illegitimate spawn, the 40 Short&Weak.

 

[Zargon]

man that DP12 looks badass

 

[HumblePie]

man that DP12 looks badass

Agreed, but lately many of these crazy badass looking guns have be complete duds as far as reliability goes. Especially the badass looking shotties.

 

[Kelvrick]

I am a huge fan of the 10mm, and own a few different handguns in that caliber. Recoil all depends on ammo, most off the shelf stuff is the "FBI lite" loads that are more or less s .40 Short&Weak +p. True 10mm spec ammo is right around 41 magnum ballistics. About 10 years or so ago Ted Nugent used a Glock 20 to drop a charging Cape buffalo with double tap ammo, it would definitely handle a black bear.

Currently I run a Kimber Eclipse, Glock 20, and Glock 29. It really is a great caliber, and is far superior to its illegitimate spawn, the 40 Short&Weak.

10mm is definitely fun. If you want a long slide (5+ in barrel, then you'll want to go gen 3 unless you want to deal with gaps in the dust cover, etc. I'm not aware of anyone having a "gen 4" long slide yet.

I also run a lone wolf 40s&w barrel for use when I don't want to waste as much money during practice.

I believe the current hot loaded commercial ammo of choice is underwood ammunition. They are very reasonably priced as well. Their 775ft/lbs model has a very noticeable difference. If you want to go with the heavier lead cast bullets, then it is generally recommended to use an aftermarket traditionally rifled barrel because of how the factory glock barrel may get lead buildup.

 

[adairusmc]

10mm is definitely fun. If you want a long slide (5+ in barrel, then you'll want to go gen 3 unless you want to deal with gaps in the dust cover, etc. I'm not aware of anyone having a "gen 4" long slide yet.

I also run a lone wolf 40s&w barrel for use when I don't want to waste as much money during practice.

I believe the current hot loaded commercial ammo of choice is underwood ammunition. They are very reasonably priced as well. Their 775ft/lbs model has a very noticeable difference. If you want to go with the heavier lead cast bullets, then it is generally recommended to use an aftermarket traditionally rifled barrel because of how the factory glock barrel may get lead buildup.

I have heard good things about underwood, I just have not bought any since I now handload for 10mm, and I have a ton of doubletap to shoot up. But underwood is definitely has a good reputation from everything I read.

I am planning on picking up one of the Sig p220 elites when they are available in 10mm soon, I am really excited that Sig decided to offer something in 10. The new glock 40 looks interesting, but the Sig looks amazing.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/sig-sauer-10mm-p220-pistols-10mm-elite-performance-ammo/

I want one of the match elite models, I cant wait to try one out.

 

[Kelvrick]

I have heard good things about underwood, I just have not bought any since I now handload for 10mm, and I have a ton of doubletap to shoot up. But underwood is definitely has a good reputation from everything I read.

I am planning on picking up one of the Sig p220 elites when they are available in 10mm soon, I am really excited that Sig decided to offer something in 10. The new glock 40 looks interesting, but the Sig looks amazing.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/sig-sauer-10mm-p220-pistols-10mm-elite-performance-ammo/

I want one of the match elite models, I cant wait to try one out.

😀 I'm curious to see how they would match up to the p220 conversions that Bruce Grey has been offering. Will definitely be cheaper though as conversion costs were 1k-1.7k not included the pistol and were out of my price range.

I wouldn't mind this CZ either. If it ever comes out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIK6cFPevmE

 

[BlitzPuppet]

4-6 week wait time on my AK74 receiver. Ho hummm this is going to be a long few weeks 🙁

 

[phucheneh]

I believe the current hot loaded commercial ammo of choice is underwood ammunition. They are very reasonably priced as well. Their 775ft/lbs model has a very noticeable difference. If you want to go with the heavier lead cast bullets, then it is generally recommended to use an aftermarket traditionally rifled barrel because of how the factory glock barrel may get lead buildup.

How are Glock barrels not 'traditionally rifled'?

To me that implies polygonal rifling, which would actually be better for resisting fouling.

 

[Merad]

How are Glock barrels not 'traditionally rifled'?

To me that implies polygonal rifling, which would actually be better for resisting fouling.

Glock barrels do use polygonal rifling.

Glock has never offered a detailed explanation for why they don't recommend using lead in their barrels, and to my knowledge no one has attempted to do a study on the issue. Issues with it are also very inconsistent. Plenty of people online claim to have been running lead through their stock Glock barrels for decades without a problem... and other people claim to have done so for years without a problem, only to end with a kaboom that they can't really explain.

One explanation I've seen offered several times is that with the polygonal rifling, leading is basically constricting the entire bore rather than accumulating primarily in the grooves. This in turn can lead to unpredictable pressure spikes if you have lead buildup that you aren't aware of. Yet OTOH to my knowledge no other pistol manufacturer who uses polygonal rifling issues warnings about shooting lead.

It's a weird issue. Subject to a lot of debate online. Personally I decided to just buy Lone Wolf barrels for my glocks rather than worrying about it.

 

[Kelvrick]

How are Glock barrels not 'traditionally rifled'?

To me that implies polygonal rifling, which would actually be better for resisting fouling.

They are polygonal. There are multiple manufacturers who use that kind of rifling, but glock is the only one I know of that has issued a warning against using lead bullets. It probably is more of a risk for soft cast mostly lead bullets and not hard cast bullets and obviously depends on how much you shoot and how often you clean, but it is still a risk that should be considered.

A few links for people to make up their own minds. I almost never shoot lead anyway but thought I'd mention it.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59
http://www.gunnews.com/myth-polygonal-barrels/

I'm curious why you consider a polygonal to be less susceptible to lead fouling though. There is more of a seal around a bullet and the same amount of fouling would create higher pressures than with traditional rifling where the valleys can hold more lead.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

I have a pistol with a smooth polygonal bore and I actually love it.

Very easy to clean and VERY accurate.

 

[RandomAhearne]

Well you all certainly never disappoint that's for certain.

Thanks to everyone for their input on the 10 mm. Now I want one even more.

I'm leaning towards the Glock 40 MOS:
http://us.glock.com/mos#config

Any ideas? Yeah or nay?

Also, I agree with the comment about the new high cap auto loader bullpup shotguns being iffy. The KSG seems to be the most stable but the UTS-15 seems to have a lot of problems. I just liked the idea of a double barreled high cap 12 that was a pump. Seems like it might be more reliable.

But I still have to decide if I want to upgrade my Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights or just put a red dot on it and call it finished. Or just sell it and get an A1 with factory ghost rings. Mine is the older model with the thinner barrel and plastic trigger guard and safety.

 

[IGemini]

Looks like Remington is absorbing Para USA:
http://www.remington.com/pages/news...rearms/remingtonannouncesparaintegration.aspx

February 09, 2015

At Remington Outdoor Company (“ROC”) we develop, manufacture and market the highest quality firearms, ammunition, and related products. We have built ROC by acquiring and cultivating great brands and products, such as the Remington 870 and 700, DPMS rifles, AAC suppressors, Barnes Bullets ammunition, Para USA handguns, and more while continuously investing in our people and facilities. In 2011 Remington re-entered the handgun market with the critically acclaimed R1 1911, an updated version of the 1911 Remington made for the US government in World War I. Most of ROC’s new product launches and acquisitions have gone well, but they aren’t always perfect and, candidly, we did a poor job with the Marlin factory relocation and the R51 launch. These were expensive but valuable lessons.

In 2012, with a goal of expanding its handgun line, ROC acquired Para USA (“Para”), a company that specialized in the production of competition, high capacity, and double action 1911-style pistols. Following Remington’s acquisition, Para, which had been experiencing quality control issues, saw a steep decline in warranty claims.

In 2014, ROC announced its new, world-class firearms center of excellence in Huntsville, Alabama. Here, Remington is integrating product development, engineering, production, and quality control - a first in Remington’s 200-year history. The integration of modern sporting rifles, suppressors, and Remington pistols commenced immediately, and Para is scheduled to move to Huntsville next month.

Para’s products have a strong following due to their key technical and performance features, which are different than many 1911s, including Remington’s own R1 line. ROC intends to keep these features and benefits that our customers have come to trust, while transferring Para’s operations to Huntsville and rebranding Para to Remington. We have learned from our mistakes, listened to our customers, and have a clear plan to smoothly integrate Para. This includes keeping popular Para products, characteristics, and names such as the “Warthog,” while improving quality with state-of-the art machining and engineering in Huntsville, AL.

Further, ROC will recognize and continue to support Para’s Lifetime Warranty promise on all Para handguns.

The Black Ops 14.45/Recon was on my short list for a first 1911...hopefully their QC will go up with this merger.

 

[irishScott]

Looks like Remington is absorbing Para USA:
http://www.remington.com/pages/news...rearms/remingtonannouncesparaintegration.aspx





The Black Ops 14.45/Recon was on my short list for a first 1911...hopefully their QC will go up with this merger.

So the Remington wanted to fill out their 1911 line and chose to buy Para to do it; I only hope it goes better than the Marlin purchase. There is hope for that though, the Remington R1 is a fine 1911.

Shame that the Para name is going away.

 

[corwin]

So the Remington wanted to fill out their 1911 line and chose to buy Para to do it; I only hope it goes better than the Marlin purchase. There is hope for that though, the Remington R1 is a fine 1911.

Shame that the Para name is going away.

A real shame...is the original Para-Ordinance still around?

 

[IGemini]

Para-Ordnance became Para USA in 2009 when they moved from Canada. I'm not sure if Remington bought Para or Cerberus consolidated them together. They're both owned by Freedom Group. Conglomerates make my head hurt.

 

[Jerem]

Looks like Remington is absorbing Para USA:
http://www.remington.com/pages/news...rearms/remingtonannouncesparaintegration.aspx





The Black Ops 14.45/Recon was on my short list for a first 1911...hopefully their QC will go up with this merger.

I got mine just before Christmas. My hands border on 2X so I guess that's why I like the feel the double stack better than the single. My Para does have some issues, but they are getting better as it breaks in. When I first got it the grip safety would stick depressed and the trigger would become very hard to pull, sometimes not even firing at all. This has gradually gotten better and didn't happen at all last weekend. It has taken 1000 rounds and mucho lube but I think it has broken in. Other problem doesn't seem to get better. The slide lock engages as the last round is being pushed from the magazine. Basically, the slide is not far enough forward when the follower engages the slide catch. Does it maybe one in five times. Happens with both factory mags. I might try a different mag than go to a different slide lock before sending it in.

You might consider a RIA tactical. I've got one in a 9mm DS and love it. Looks very much like the Para and smooth as silk. The RIA came with adjustable sights but the Para had front cocking serrations. The Para is an 80 series and the RIA is a 70. They feel about the same though.

I can post a side by side pic if you're interested.

 

[phucheneh]

Well you all certainly never disappoint that's for certain.

Thanks to everyone for their input on the 10 mm. Now I want one even more.

I'm leaning towards the Glock 40 MOS:
http://us.glock.com/mos#config

Any ideas? Yeah or nay?

Also, I agree with the comment about the new high cap auto loader bullpup shotguns being iffy. The KSG seems to be the most stable but the UTS-15 seems to have a lot of problems. I just liked the idea of a double barreled high cap 12 that was a pump. Seems like it might be more reliable.

But I still have to decide if I want to upgrade my Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights or just put a red dot on it and call it finished. Or just sell it and get an A1 with factory ghost rings. Mine is the older model with the thinner barrel and plastic trigger guard and safety.

Were you the one who said you wanted a 10mm for hiking or some such? I.e. knocking down some big-ass animals?

Even people who don't like Glock seem to find their 10mm's pretty acceptable. I am not a Glock guy at all, but if I wanted a 10mm, it would be a pretty short list: Glock, Tanfoglio...uh...yeah, just those two, actually. I was gonna say '1911,' but I dunno if anyone makes a 10mm that you can get for a price that's not four digits.

I dunno why you'd want something with optics for your purpose, though. I'd go for durability, i.e. traditional post/notch sights that are all metal, with your choice of markings...personally I like blacked-out rears and usually use a red dot on the front. Or red fiber, but again, for a KISS outdoor gun, I wouldn't bother with something that could get broken like a fiber element.

My pick would be a poly Witness 10mm, commonly available under $400:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...611/EAA+999061+Witness+Polymer+15+1+10mm+4.5"

But I would not fault anyone for going for the Glock.

 

[phucheneh]

I'm curious why you consider a polygonal to be less susceptible to lead fouling though. There is more of a seal around a bullet and the same amount of fouling would create higher pressures than with traditional rifling where the valleys can hold more lead.

I had no idea Glock's had polygonal rifling. I could've sworn it was normal land/groove...but like I said above, I'm not a Glock guy.

To me it seems like common sense (as in, it make sense in my brain, but I can not scientifically vouch for it) that a polygonal barrel will accumulate less lead than something with sharp grooves. But I was not thinking about other considerations, like that it probably takes a lot less lead to dangerously increase chamber pressures.

I'm curious as to what if any effect polygonal barrels have on muzzle velocity (which I assume would be your only indicator of higher pressures). Assuming you're testing comparable barrels...would need to find a manufacturer that offers the same gun with/without polygonal rifling. Kahr is the only one that comes to mind for me.

 

[Kelvrick]

I had no idea Glock's had polygonal rifling. I could've sworn it was normal land/groove...but like I said above, I'm not a Glock guy.

To me it seems like common sense (as in, it make sense in my brain, but I can not scientifically vouch for it) that a polygonal barrel will accumulate less lead than something with sharp grooves. But I was not thinking about other considerations, like that it probably takes a lot less lead to dangerously increase chamber pressures.

I'm curious as to what if any effect polygonal barrels have on muzzle velocity (which I assume would be your only indicator of higher pressures). Assuming you're testing comparable barrels...would need to find a manufacturer that offers the same gun with/without polygonal rifling. Kahr is the only one that comes to mind for me.

Most comparisons I've found have shown little to no difference with a chronograph. I want to say my readings have concluded the polygonals have a marginal, if any advantage in velocity (comparing a CW9 and a P9). I have not seen anyone bench strap their kahrs down for an accuracy comparison.

 

[velillen]

Were you the one who said you wanted a 10mm for hiking or some such? I.e. knocking down some big-ass animals?

Even people who don't like Glock seem to find their 10mm's pretty acceptable. I am not a Glock guy at all, but if I wanted a 10mm, it would be a pretty short list: Glock, Tanfoglio...uh...yeah, just those two, actually. I was gonna say '1911,' but I dunno if anyone makes a 10mm that you can get for a price that's not four digits.

I dunno why you'd want something with optics for your purpose, though. I'd go for durability, i.e. traditional post/notch sights that are all metal, with your choice of markings...personally I like blacked-out rears and usually use a red dot on the front. Or red fiber, but again, for a KISS outdoor gun, I wouldn't bother with something that could get broken like a fiber element.

My pick would be a poly Witness 10mm, commonly available under $400:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...611/EAA+999061+Witness+Polymer+15+1+10mm+4.5"

But I would not fault anyone for going for the Glock.

I went with a glock 20 for my first 10mm. Just did not care for it. But i havent really cared for any glocks. Just the way it fits my hand. The G20 worked flawlessly the 100-150 rounds i did put through it though!

Soon as i got my Rock Island 1911 in 10mm i sold off the glock. Once i changed out the grips on the RIA I fell in love with it. Such a sweet shooter and accurate. The original grips were a bit rough and shooting full power stuff hurt my hands. Switched to the magpul 1911 grips which are smooth and havent had a problem since.

My latest 10mm is a S&W 1076. Which is the 10mm series guns and the xx76 is the "fbi model" so it has a mag disconnect and a couple other minor things. Long story short i like this gun too. Its The heaviest out of the three ive own and that helps a bit on the recoil. Its also build like a tank. I picked it up for 600 out the door which is a tad on the high side of normal price but i got it local so cant complain.

I do wish i hadnt sold the Glock. Its honestly the only hand gun ive ever sold so i still miss it from time to time!

 

[dud]

I just saw a 1919A4 semiauto with tripod for sale on a gun forum and am scratching my head. The gun is semi-auto. Regardless of the laws associated with owning a machine gun ... why would anyone want to pay thousands for a dumbed down (semi-auto) machine gun? Perhaps a collector?

 

[jlee]

I really want an XDM Compact... tempted to sell/trade my Glock 36 for one.

I just saw a 1919A4 semiauto with tripod for sale on a gun forum and am scratching my head. The gun is semi-auto. Regardless of the laws associated with owning a machine gun ... why would anyone want to pay thousands for a dumbed down (semi-auto) machine gun? Perhaps a collector?

Yup, collector.

 

[phucheneh]

I went with a glock 20 for my first 10mm. Just did not care for it. But i havent really cared for any glocks. Just the way it fits my hand. The G20 worked flawlessly the 100-150 rounds i did put through it though!

Soon as i got my Rock Island 1911 in 10mm i sold off the glock. Once i changed out the grips on the RIA I fell in love with it. Such a sweet shooter and accurate. The original grips were a bit rough and shooting full power stuff hurt my hands. Switched to the magpul 1911 grips which are smooth and havent had a problem since.

My latest 10mm is a S&W 1076. Which is the 10mm series guns and the xx76 is the "fbi model" so it has a mag disconnect and a couple other minor things. Long story short i like this gun too. Its The heaviest out of the three ive own and that helps a bit on the recoil. Its also build like a tank. I picked it up for 600 out the door which is a tad on the high side of normal price but i got it local so cant complain.

I do wish i hadnt sold the Glock. Its honestly the only hand gun ive ever sold so i still miss it from time to time!

I didn't even know RIA was doing 10mm's. That's pretty cool. Looks like 500-600 bucks for a standard model. Or, well, if it was a .45, I'm sure the features would put it in with their 'enhanced' line or whatever they call it...adjustable fiber optic sights, VZ grips, and other little bonuses. Pretty spiffy for that price.

Is it truly built (as in, overbuilt) for 10mm, or is it more or less a .45 with a drop-in barrel?

I know about the S&W's, but I've always lumped all of those copious related models together...which, frankly, means 'not interested' based on what I've felt in 59's and 910's. Yucky, yucky triggers. Bad DA's can usually get a pass from me, but does the 1076 at least have a little better SA? I just remember lots of effort, lots of creep, and no idea when the break is coming, with regard to the similar 9mm's.