YAGT: OMG I love guns

[HumblePie]

Glock haters. Why are there so many?

Pointing out the pro's and con's of a particular gun makes a person a hater?

 

[shortylickens]

I've been happy with their stuff. They're not my favorite, but I have a really hard time finding faults with their products given the prices.

Me too.

I've got 3, no complaints. But I wasnt aware everyone else thought so highly of them.

 

[gorobei]

i love my gen2 glocks, that was when glocks were dead solid reliable.

i didnt care much for the changes with gen3 and gen4 just seems like they are trying to hard to match some of the other newer polymers designs.

the only feature that i would consider a real upgrade is the double recoil spring guide rod assembly.


limp wrist is a training issue. most departments have one handed drills and one handed cqb hip firing training. i dont recall any officers having any issue with limpwrist or any department that went all glock that had a problem with one handed use.

 

[etrigan420]

Glock haters. Why are there so many?

Because it's the most popular and their fans are some of the most rabid.

Love my Gen4 G19 FDE, never had any problems with it...I don't know that it's inherently "better" than anything else on the market, but it's worked flawlessly for me.

Bought it last July for $580.

 

[BladeVenom]

Glock fanboys. Why are there so many?

How many times have you heard such nonsense as, "Glocks don't malfunction," when it's clear that they malfunction just like any other pistol.

 

[HumblePie]

i love my gen2 glocks, that was when glocks were dead solid reliable.

i didnt care much for the changes with gen3 and gen4 just seems like they are trying to hard to match some of the other newer polymers designs.

the only feature that i would consider a real upgrade is the double recoil spring guide rod assembly.


limp wrist is a training issue. most departments have one handed drills and one handed cqb hip firing training. i dont recall any officers having any issue with limpwrist or any department that went all glock that had a problem with one handed use.

As for the first part, gen 3 and gen 4s have had more than few recalled parts on them. Recoil springs were a huge problem for gen 4's. As for the double guide rod assembly, that's actually a negative as it's now more parts for failure points.

As for the bolded section, that is completely incorrect. Limp wristing is NOT a training issue. The gun is designed to malfunction when the slide is going to the rear if there is not enough reciprocating mass holding the grip frame. Period. It's a design flaw to Glocks.

Watch this youtube video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4

The person is able to cause a malfunction when lightly holding a glock 17 or 19 every single time. The same way he holds a glock to cause the malfunction doesn't cause malfunctions in the other guns he tests. Meaning if you are in a position that you are FORCED to limp wrist the shot, with a Glock you will get a malfunction. 100%. End of story. I'd rather shoot and have a gun that doesn't have that design flaw.

Now can you train yourself while being in a prone position on your back with a Glock to add enough mass to the grip frame while firing to prevent it in that one scenario? Sure. It's harder to do as it is not natural unlike firing any other gun from that position. But that doesn't mean anything in the road rage scenario I presented previously. There is ZERO way to train yourself to fire a gun without limp wrist if the scenario has you pinned into a prone position and the only arm you can get into a firing position can only lightly grip the gun due to an injury. In that case, an owner with a Glock is 100% screwed.

 

[irishScott]

Glock fanboys. Why are there so many?

How many times have you heard such nonsense as, "Glocks don't malfunction," when it's clear that they malfunction just like any other pistol.

And don't forget the defensive "why don't you recommend a Glock for a first gun? You got a better idea?" people.

 

[etrigan420]

As for the first part, gen 3 and gen 4s have had more than few recalled parts on them. Recoil springs were a huge problem for gen 4's. As for the double guide rod assembly, that's actually a negative as it's now more parts for failure points.

As for the bolded section, that is completely incorrect. Limp wristing is NOT a training issue. The gun is designed to malfunction when the slide is going to the rear if there is not enough reciprocating mass holding the grip frame. Period. It's a design flaw to Glocks.

Watch this youtube video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4

The person is able to cause a malfunction when lightly holding a glock 17 or 19 every single time. The same way he holds a glock to cause the malfunction doesn't cause malfunctions in the other guns he tests. Meaning if you are in a position that you are FORCED to limp wrist the shot, with a Glock you will get a malfunction. 100%. End of story. I'd rather shoot and have a gun that doesn't have that design flaw.

Now can you train yourself while being in a prone position on your back with a Glock to add enough mass to the grip frame while firing to prevent it in that one scenario? Sure. It's harder to do as it is not natural unlike firing any other gun from that position. But that doesn't mean anything in the road rage scenario I presented previously. There is ZERO way to train yourself to fire a gun without limp wrist if the scenario has you pinned into a prone position and the only arm you can get into a firing position can only lightly grip the gun due to an injury. In that case, an owner with a Glock is 100% screwed.

Good lord man...stop the FUD.

Don't like Glocks? Don't trust 'em? Then don't buy one...but stop spreading bullshit.

Maybe they'll release one in Zombie garb to garner your attention. 🙄

 

[HumblePie]

Glocks are fine handguns assuming you know the strengths and weaknesses of the gun going in. Actually, that statement goes for most firearms. Nothing is perfect. Knowing the weaknesses and how to overcome them or avoid if at all possible is part of being a good gun owner. Denying your favorite firearm has any weaknesses is just plain stupid. Too many Glock owners out there deny there is any weakness with the Glocks. That they are only perfect firearm in the world.



Good guns but not for me. That one design flaw is a major enough one to hold me off on buying one when coupled with the current price for one. It's not that I can't afford a Glock. I most certainly can. I've even had multiple opportunities to pick one up. Like with all my guns, I research to make sure I am getting exactly what I want for my money. If the Glock was a $300 gun, I'd have zero problem buying one. It's worthy of $300 considering all the pros and cons. It's not worthy of $550 in my opinion though.

If I was interested in a Glock design I'd buy a S&W M&P for $150 less. Or the Ruger SK9, which takes Glock slides since it is a pure Glock clone without the design flaw of the limp wrist malfunction. This is due to the Ruger version having a much heavier grip frame and a slightly lighter slide due to the milling cut outs.

 

[Farmer]

Pointing out the pro's and con's of a particular gun makes a person a hater?

So I honestly don't see why people have it out against Glocks, or will nitpick whenever they are suggested. Glocks are nice guns. I like how they feel when you fire them. I happened to like my friend's Glock more than an M&P, so I bought Glocks. Another person might like the M&P better, in that case he should go buy an M&P. Maybe I'll like the PPQ, in that case I'll buy a PPQ whenever it is I get to shoot one.

Some of the "major shortcomings" you list for the Glock makes me wonder, are we talking about the same gun? "Grip angle"? Really?

 

[HumblePie]

Good lord man...stop the FUD.

Don't like Glocks? Don't trust 'em? Then don't buy one...but stop spreading bullshit.

Maybe they'll release one in Zombie garb to garner your attention. 🙄

FUD? You claim fud without one shred of evidence. Can you deny that Glocks have a design flaw that can allow for 100% limp wrist malfunctions?

 

[corwin]

Just in case anyone is still looking for .40, .38 or .380 ammo

https://blackrockpowdercompany.com/

They're out of everything else right now but those are in stock and ready to ship, I'm fairly close but it was $17 to ship 10 boxes of .40 so not terrible shipping prices that I can tell


Oh yeah and I hate Glocks...but just because they feel like a block in my hands😛

 

[etrigan420]

FUD? You claim fud without one shred of evidence.

That's not how "logic" works...*you* have to prove *your* claim, otherwise it's FUD.

Can you deny that Glocks have a design flaw that can allow for 100% limp wrist malfunctions?

Yup. I can't get mine to malfunction due to limp wrist, so there goes your "100%" assertion.

Now, ask our good friend Sturmgewehre what his daily carry is...

I'll end the suspense for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCvGW0MR80

Again, I'm not claiming perfection, I'm claiming that you're full of shit.

 

[HumblePie]

That's not how "logic" works...*you* have to prove *your* claim, otherwise it's FUD.



Yup. I can't get mine to malfunction due to limp wrist, so there goes your "100%" assertion.

Now, ask our good friend Sturmgewehre what his daily carry is...

I'll end the suspense for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCvGW0MR80

Again, I'm not claiming perfection, I'm claiming that you're full of shit.

And that IS how logic works. I made a claim, and I provided proof to my claim. You made a counter claim but provided zero proof to it. My claim was that Glocks are prone to limp wrist malfunction. I provided a link for someone that shows a test of it. You claim that's FUD and provide no evidence to show my claim was FUD. Oh and logic is more about disproving than proving anyhow. Which is also how science works.

My proof was that one link, but it's really not the only proof. There are other videos. Anyhow, the guy in the video does like glocks and has no problem with the design flaw as stated. For him it's not a big enough of a con. I already know what his EDC is because he is willing to deal with that design flaw. His choice of a Glock for an EDC in no way invalidates the test he did to show the design flaw of the gun.

As for your test, did you actually limp wrist it the same way in the video I posted?

Oh and just search youtube for limp wrist test to view more examples.

 

[etrigan420]

And that IS how logic works. I made a claim, and I provided proof to my claim.

Bullshit.

Prove this:

Meaning if you are in a position that you are FORCED to limp wrist the shot, with a Glock you will get a malfunction. 100%. End of story.

It's about as specious as saying that 1911's have a "design flaw" in that when held a certain way, your hand wont properly depress the grip safety. So that if you were in a scenario where both of your thumbs were cut off, you will get a malfunction. 100%.

Say "the grip angle doesn't work for me" or "the 'brass to the face' issues concern me"...or even "the seemingly increased likelihood of a limp wrist malfunction keeps me away from them".

Claims of 100% *anything* seldom work out well.

 

[HumblePie]

Bullshit.

Prove this:



It's about as specious as saying that 1911's have a "design flaw" in that when held a certain way, your hand wont properly depress the grip safety. So that if you were in a scenario where both of your thumbs were cut off, you will get a malfunction. 100%.

Say "the grip angle doesn't work for me" or "the 'brass to the face' issues concern me"...or even "the seemingly increased likelihood of a limp wrist malfunction keeps me away from them".

Claims of 100% *anything* seldom work out well.

And your point of 1911's is why I won't carry one for self defense. I bought one as a range gun as well as being a piece of history. That I like the look of my 1911. Glocks don't really have a nice look or exactly a historical history in my opinion to justify their costs to me unlike a 1911. Since there is plausible self defense scenario's where a 1911 would be worthless to be used, that is a good reason not to rely on 1911's. Some people do and have it justified to themselves why.

As for claims of 100%, Sturm does many such tests, Just search youtube for limp wrist test to show him constantly reliably causing glocks to limp wrist malfunction while other guns do not have that problem.

Sturms test show that loosely holding a Glock 17 while firing will cause it to malfunction on every single shot. The scenario I stated before was a possible example of where someone may be forced to loosely hold their gun to fire it in a self defense situation. How can I prove that scenario? Asking me to do so it stupid. I have proved how to make a Glock malfunction 100% of the time. Sturm has about 4 or 5 separate videos of this. Other people on youtube repeat his same tests. There are tons of people across multiple boards talking about limp wristing and receiving malfunctions all the time with Glocks. The stories are anecdotal, but the tests are a bit more empirical. By applying the results of those tests into a possible scenario one can use logical deductive skills to see how the results of Sturm's testing would apply to various real life scenarios.

 

[gorobei]

That's not how "logic" works...*you* have to prove *your* claim, otherwise it's FUD.



Yup. I can't get mine to malfunction due to limp wrist, so there goes your "100%" assertion.

....

Again, I'm not claiming perfection, I'm claiming that you're full of shit.

^this.

if you watch and listen to the video you posted, the guy specifically states the issue he has is with the 9mm g17 and g19. the .40 and 45 glocks seemingly are as prone to limpwrist as any other gun. so your 'all glocks are bad' argument goes out the window right there.

ignoring the fact that he is actively trying to induce a Failure To Cycle due to limpwrist and that he states that it is impossible for himself to have a limpwrist failure if he is operating it according to his training, the issue occurs in the xdm he shoots later in the video. given that he has probably way more practice in making the FTC happen with the glock, with enough practice you could make it happen as often with any polymer pistol(note he states that he has to practice inducing the FTC to get it 100% of the time). and even in the video he limpwrists it and it still cycles.

as far as proof goes, i've never had any issues with glocks and loose grip(so another statistical hole along with etrigans in your 100% assertion).

i have seen limpwrist in metal frame guns by inexperienced shooters. (i loaned a heavy ass ruger pistol to my cousin who was introducing some people to shooting. the 'never held a gun in his life' shooter managed a stovepipe in what was as loose tolerance as an AK ruger). i've seen similar issues with other metal framed guns. heavier steel framed guns do help alleviate this specific issue, but in my experience ejection port size, extractor and ejector design have more affect on FTC in general issues.

the issue is real but is also dependent on recoil springs, slide weight, and ammo as well as shooter grip. you can induce a FTC with any gun through any combination of those factors.

a shooting buddy of mine when he got his g17 had some limpwristing stovepipes, mostly due to him being a novice at the time and having a fairly slight build. i tried the glock and had no problems. i even tried to actively limpwrist it to see if i could recreate the effect, and still no problems cycling. it is a very subjective issue that is typically solved with training and practice.

 

[HumblePie]

^this.

if you watch and listen to the video you posted, the guy specifically states the issue he has is with the 9mm g17 and g19. the .40 and 45 glocks seemingly are as prone to limpwrist as any other gun. so your 'all glocks are bad' argument goes out the window right there.

ignoring the fact that he is actively trying to induce a Failure To Cycle due to limpwrist and that he states that it is impossible for himself to have a limpwrist failure if he is operating it according to his training, the issue occurs in the xdm he shoots later in the video. given that he has probably way more practice in making the FTC happen with the glock, with enough practice you could make it happen as often with any polymer pistol(note he states that he has to practice inducing the FTC to get it 100% of the time). and even in the video he limpwrists it and it still cycles.

as far as proof goes, i've never had any issues with glocks and loose grip(so another statistical hole along with etrigans in your 100% assertion).

i have seen limpwrist in metal frame guns by inexperienced shooters. (i loaned a heavy ass ruger pistol to my cousin who was introducing some people to shooting. the 'never held a gun in his life' shooter managed a stovepipe in what was as loose tolerance as an AK ruger). i've seen similar issues with other metal framed guns. heavier steel framed guns do help alleviate this specific issue, but in my experience ejection port size, extractor and ejector design have more affect on FTC in general issues.

the issue is real but is also dependent on recoil springs, slide weight, and ammo as well as shooter grip. you can induce a FTC with any gun through any combination of those factors.

a shooting buddy of mine when he got his g17 had some limpwristing stovepipes, mostly due to him being a novice at the time and having a fairly slight build. i tried the glock and had no problems. i even tried to actively limpwrist it to see if i could recreate the effect, and still no problems cycling. it is a very subjective issue that is typically solved with training and practice.

If you go back to my original statement I stated with SOME Glocks. I never said ALL Glocks. The difference is in the slide to grip frame weight ratio as well as the power of the cartridge being used to induce the limp wrist malfunction. Also, the less ammo in the mag the more likely even other Glocks are to malfunction due to limp wristing because the weight from the ammo is no longer being added to the grip frame.

Show me in my original post that I'm about to quote where I stated all glocks?

Snip

Third, many glocks have 1 problem in there inherent design. Limp wristing.

Snip

Many is not the set of all.

 

[shortylickens]

WOW!

I am so fucking sorry I said anything.

 

[HumblePie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUv_LmPfYug

Another video of the Glock 17 limp wrist malfunctioning.

 

[HumblePie]

WOW!

I am so fucking sorry I said anything.

Hahah, no, it's the Glock fanboys get their panties in a twist when anyone says anything negative about any Glock. I made my points of what I don't like about Glocks and even provided a few videos now of the example of the problem I have with Glocks in general. Then the rabid fanboys come out. Always happens with Glock fanboys.

 

[corwin]

Always happens with Glock fanboys.

Always happens with any fanboys...Apple fans are worse though😛

 

[HumblePie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9LOiHu4ThY

 

[etrigan420]

Many is not the set of all.

So, *many* Glocks will malfunction 100% of the time? 😕

We're done.

I just want to point out that your definitions of "many", "100%", "design flaw", and "probable scenario" don't align with anything I've heard in 42 years on this planet.

 

[etrigan420]

Hahah, no, it's the Glock fanboys get their panties in a twist when anyone says anything negative about any Glock. I made my points of what I don't like about Glocks and even provided a few videos now of the example of the problem I have with Glocks in general. Then the rabid fanboys come out. Always happens with Glock fanboys.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened...🙄