YAGT: OMG I love guns

[RampantAndroid]

I think he is referencing the below post.

I figured he was. But nowhere there do I say "it will throw them clear of my property" - I stand by my comment. There's more muzzle energy. The round is larger, and can expand more. I've heard being shot as being described as "being punched really hard" - followed by your body shutting down, going into shock. A .45's wound channel will do that. A .22 won't.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I dunno, I think this will be my only weapon/handgun/anything (lol) for a long, long time, so I'd like it to be a bit more than .22 for home defense.

Rampantandroid: please stop posting things that are even more expensive than my already overblown budget.

Rudeguy: I can't decide between a Sig P226 Elite Stainless and a stainless CZ 75B. I'd like to hold both within a few minutes of each other (hello, gun show!) to make my mind up. I did hold the CZ, but it didn't feel ZOMG! good like everyone says. But I'm kinda lusting over the P226 because it looks sooooooooooooooooooooooo flippin sweet. It's just super expensive...almost 2x the CZs price.

I opted to not buy an HK91, and bought a ACOG 4x BAC scope. Anyway, on the way out the door (they had closed, but being known to the people is an awesome thing) and asked to handle a CZ75 and a P226 Elite, and also a Browning High Power for comparison.

The 226 had a mushy trigger pull to my feel. In the hand, it felt OK, if a little on the narrow side. The decocker was a nice feature. The price was $1200. I put the gun down, and decided that was far too much.

I handled the CZ75; felt OK in the hand. I wasn't a huge fan of the safety lever. Too little metal to grab on to pull the slide back. Trigger pull felt roughly the same. DA pull was smooth.

FN HP: Trigger pull was the worst of them all, magazine safety. In the hand it felt good though. Of these 3, I'd take an FNHP and have the magazine safety removed and the trigger tuned. (removing that safety improves the trigger noticeably.)

Just my thoughts.

 

[BladeVenom]

Bear defense, would you trust Hallow points or Ball ammo ?

A heavy hollow point for black bears, for brown bears try flat nose hard cast.

 

[pontifex]

I figured he was. But nowhere there do I say "it will throw them clear of my property" - I stand by my comment. There's more muzzle energy. The round is larger, and can expand more. I've heard being shot as being described as "being punched really hard" - followed by your body shutting down, going into shock. A .45's wound channel will do that. A .22 won't.

nope, didn't even see that post. i'm going by the argument you are having with jagec and bladevenom.

 

[shortylickens]

The only thing I'd use on a bear is a .458.

 

[onza]

Why would you use that? The issue is the lack of penetration. Using a hollowpoint would just make that worse.

I'd go with this if I HAD to carry 9mm.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=224

My gun is only rated for +P. I loooose!

 

[Jeeebus]

My gun is only rated for +P. I loooose!

I'm pretty sure the overwhelming number of manufacturers (if not all of them) will not rate a gun for +P+

 

[CurseTheSky]

IIRC, SAAMI only has specs for +P ammunition, and even then only for a few specific calibers. Anything labeled +P+ is "custom" ammunition (even if from a common ammo manufacturer), and the ammunition exceeds SAAMI designations. So, unless you're buying some kind of "customized" handgun, you're not going to see anything rated for +P+.

 

[Kelvrick]

I'm pretty sure the overwhelming number of manufacturers (if not all of them) will not rate a gun for +P+

And if the manual says don't use +p, definitely don't use +p+. Can't think of any off the top of my head that say don't use +p, but they are out there.

 

[shortylickens]

My P290 cant handle it, according to Youtube vids. Its a tiny pocket 9mm and would probably break your wrist anyway.

 

[onza]

General conclusion is if it says +P, would you risk +P+ in your gun?

 

[CurseTheSky]

General conclusion is if it says +P, would you risk +P+ in your gun?

For a full-size or MAYBE a compact, if I didn't care about the longevity (it isn't a gun I depend on), I'd probably try it. I believe +P+ still has to fall within the upper bounds of what SAAMI sets for max pressure, it's just higher pressure than what they rate +P at.

For a sub-compact, pocket pistol, or anything that I care about dearly / trust my life to, probably not.

If the pistol's manual says that it can handle +P, you'll probably be ok. Be sure to try some regular +P's first, they can be surprisingly violent. I had a batch of Blazer (of all things) .45 ACP (regular pressure) that must have been loaded to +P specs by accident; there were fireballs coming out of the barrel of my 1911 (could even feel the heat on my arms), and the muzzle flip was pretty extreme. They were fun though.

I also had a round of Winchester Ranger 9mm +P's that were LOUD as heck. I ended up having to put ear plugs in under my normal shooting muffs because my ears were ringing.

 

[onza]

Thanks, I'll start with a box of +P's. I'm digging those High velocity buffalo rounds with a rounded tip.

 

[BladeVenom]

Thanks, I'll start with a box of +P's. I'm digging those High velocity buffalo rounds with a rounded tip.

Why not just move up to a more powerful caliber? Get a Glock 20, some people hunt black bear with them. Some arctic special forces who operate in polar bear territory carry Glock 20s.

 

[Kelvrick]

Why not just move up to a more powerful caliber? Get a Glock 20, some people hunt black bear with them. Some arctic special forces who operate in polar bear territory carry Glock 20s.

That is what I'm going to get. Just waiting for the Gen 4's to be vetted a little more before I jump.

 

[CurseTheSky]

For something as large as a brown bear or polar bear, I wouldn't really be concerned about what pistol caliber I was carrying. I'd rely on a rifle.

Keep in mind that .223 has similar energy to a .44 magnum (~1200 ft-lbf), and .308 is around 2600 ft-lbf. 10mm Auto is only around 700-750 ft-lbf. 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP are both around 500 ft-lbf in normal pressures.

And yes, I know there's a lot more involved than just energy (penetration, expansion, tendency to tumble or fragment, permanent wound channel, etc.), but the overall energy paints a pretty grim picture for most non-magnum pistol rounds against anything really big and scary. I'd still gladly take 10mm Auto over .45 ACP or 9mm if it's all I had, but rifles are what you want if you get to choose.

 

[rudeguy]

For something as large as a brown bear or polar bear, I wouldn't really be concerned about what pistol caliber I was carrying. I'd rely on a rifle.

Keep in mind that .223 has similar energy to a .44 magnum (~1200 ft-lbf), and .308 is around 2600 ft-lbf. 10mm Auto is only around 700-750 ft-lbf. 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP are both around 500 ft-lbf in normal pressures.

And yes, I know there's a lot more involved than just energy (penetration, expansion, tendency to tumble or fragment, permanent wound channel, etc.), but the overall energy paints a pretty grim picture for most non-magnum pistol rounds against anything really big and scary. I'd still gladly take 10mm Auto over .45 ACP or 9mm if it's all I had, but rifles are what you want if you get to choose.

If I get to choose, I choose super speed so I can run the hell out of there.

 

[velillen]

That is what I'm going to get. Just waiting for the Gen 4's to be vetted a little more before I jump.

thats what ill be getting in 2 weeks when im home for the weekend. Already ordered a lone wolf threaded barrel with full support for the cases so i can reload a bit hotter...and shoot suppressed for fun too.

 

[Kelvrick]

thats what ill be getting in 2 weeks when im home for the weekend. Already ordered a lone wolf threaded barrel with full support for the cases so i can reload a bit hotter...and shoot suppressed for fun too.

Are you in Washington state or city? I was still hearing of suppliers in the west coast not getting them yet.

 

[ManBearPig]

deleted

 

[velillen]

Are you in Washington state or city? I was still hearing of suppliers in the west coast not getting them yet.

State. Last time id called they had them so who knows! Buying two guns on my weekend home so if its not the glock 20 then itll just be something else lol. 44mag is pretty much a given unless for some reason nobody will sell me one

 

[RampantAndroid]

Me happy.

 

[Jeeebus]

going to the range tomorrow with a couple guys from work. got the shotgun, 9mm, mp5 (.22), and .38 airweight all cleaned up and ready to get properly dirty. Should be a fun trip.

 

[CurseTheSky]

How's gun stuff going with yallz?! I wanna just get a pistol now, but don't want to not hold it first. But the next gun show is in late October, and i think everythings gonna be super expensive because of the election.

Just swapped the P250 action from the full size frame to the subcompact frame. I might try carrying it one of these days instead of the Bodyguard 380. The thought of having 12 rounds of 9mm instead of 6 rounds of .380 is sort of nice. The extra bulk, though, is not.

 

[RampantAndroid]

going to the range tomorrow with a couple guys from work. got the shotgun, 9mm, mp5 (.22), and .38 airweight all cleaned up and ready to get properly dirty. Should be a fun trip.

Is that the GSG MP5 lookalike? My friend has one...thing jams all the time.