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clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
Nice phucheneh!

I'm in the process of putting together an AR pistol. I was never honestly interested in them until I saw the option of putting on a Sig SB15 brace. So I got the lower completed and am looking for an upper, complete or stripped doesn't matter.

Any recommendations on where to look? I'm most likely gonna go with 300 BLK and would like a 10.5"-12" barrel with 1:7 twist so heavy subsonic rounds are stabilized. I've liked at Midway USA and *hangs head* Cheaper Than Dirt but most barrels are 1:8 twist or like 8", and there's no way in fuck I'm paying over $700 for a freaking upper.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
I'm in the process of putting together an AR pistol. I was never honestly interested in them until I saw the option of putting on a Sig SB15 brace. So I got the lower completed and am looking for an upper, complete or stripped doesn't matter.

Any recommendations on where to look? I'm most likely gonna go with 300 BLK and would like a 10.5"-12" barrel with 1:7 twist so heavy subsonic rounds are stabilized. I've liked at Midway USA and *hangs head* Cheaper Than Dirt but most barrels are 1:8 twist or like 8", and there's no way in fuck I'm paying over $700 for a freaking upper.
Now you've got me wondering if I should build a pistol:hmm:

But I still kind of want a stainless diamond fluted barreled rifle though, if I can ever find one...
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Hooray- Bud's system appears to be fixed. For a long while, status/tracking was not getting updated past 'processing' until after the damned package had already arrived. P290RS shipped today.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
Just ordered the rest of my AR build...hopefully I'll have it assembled by next week. I'll post pics and specs when done.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
Any recommendations on where to look? I'm most likely gonna go with 300 BLK and would like a 10.5"-12" barrel with 1:7 twist so heavy subsonic rounds are stabilized. I've liked at Midway USA and *hangs head* Cheaper Than Dirt but most barrels are 1:8 twist or like 8", and there's no way in fuck I'm paying over $700 for a freaking upper.

1:8 is so common cause it does pretty much everything you could want. It stabilizes the 208-220gr bullets just fine. the 247 are hit or miss from what ive seen...but the 247 are also mostly lead hand casted. For typical 220gr jacketed 1:8 is great. As for barrel length 8" is great. 300blk was designed to be fully burned by 8-9" of barrel. So anything longer doesnt provide much of anything.

If you want cheap you can build one pretty cheap. ive seen some 300blk 9" barrels for 100-120 bucks. Add in your handguard (say 150) and stripped upper (60) and you are only ~350 bucks into it (adding cheap gas block, gas tube, ect)
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,722
73
91
Any word on a single stack 9mm Glock subcompact? I'm loving my G19 gen 4 for fun at the range and home defense, but I'm way too small/skinny to conceal it.

Does anyone have any experience with the DiamondBack DB9? It's a Glock-like gun, minus the grip angle, and is seriously small. It can't handle +P rounds, but I really don't care about that. Reviews tend to be mixed, but most reviews I can find are pretty poor in quality.

The Kahr PM9 looks nice, but it's crazy expensive. Used ones are listed for the same price, or sometimes even more. But I think that's due to the market right now, more than the gun itself. What's with people thinking their guns are made of gold? :(
 

Jerem

Senior member
May 25, 2014
303
38
91
Thanks to California's 1 handgun every 30 days rule, I'm down to my final two purchases for the year.

I'm thinking:

Two Sig X-Sixes (Scandic and L1)

or

Sig X-Six (Scandic) and X-Five (L1)

or

Sig X-Six (Scandic) and a P210 Super Target (which I can't seem to find at all)

Which pair would you pick?

For the record, I already have a X-Five Tactical (which I love), a regular P226, a P226 Tacops, and a P226 Elite Dark.

Well, you coud get you a wife. Then you can purchase twice as many. Only problem is you'd be broke. I like your Sig collection. I have a plain jane 226 as well as a Blackwater Tactical, a plain jane 220 as well as a 220 Equinox, and conversion kits for all to get me to .40 and .22 for the 226, and .22 for the 220.

If you didn't know, the Governor closed the single shot loophole. As of Jan. 1 no more off list guns. This is gonna suck.
 

Jerem

Senior member
May 25, 2014
303
38
91
mDv0UMA.jpg

DIL8cki.jpg



Pick this one up yesterday. Double stack Commander size 9mm with a .22TCM barrel as well.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
mDv0UMA.jpg

DIL8cki.jpg



Pick this one up yesterday. Double stack Commander size 9mm with a .22TCM barrel as well.

Nice! I have the full size and I love it, .22 tcm is a fun round to shoot, big bang and flash but no recoil...ammosupplywarehouse.com almost always has it in stock and they have reloading components as well if you're into that
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,722
73
91
Nice! I have the full size and I love it, .22 tcm is a fun round to shoot, big bang and flash but no recoil...ammosupplywarehouse.com almost always has it in stock and they have reloading components as well if you're into that

Interesting, but it seems like quite an expensive round.
 

Phanuel

Platinum Member
Apr 25, 2008
2,304
2
0
If you want cheap you can build one pretty cheap. ive seen some 300blk 9" barrels for 100-120 bucks. Add in your handguard (say 150) and stripped upper (60) and you are only ~350 bucks into it (adding cheap gas block, gas tube, ect)

My only issue with .300 blk and "cheap" in the same firearm is that it is not at all inexpensive to feed. Ammo is still ~$0.70/round
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
My only issue with .300 blk and "cheap" in the same firearm is that it is not at all inexpensive to feed. Ammo is still ~$0.70/round

which is true with many calibers. 308 isnt exactly cheap either. I actually find 30-06 cheaper usually (via CMP mil-surp) than 308 for factory ammo

Sometimes i forget how much ammo costs too since i reload. Factory subsonic is more in the $1 range but i can make it for ~40 cents. Regular supersonic i just use milsurp 147gr pull downs and its slightly cheaper.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
1:8 is so common cause it does pretty much everything you could want. It stabilizes the 208-220gr bullets just fine. the 247 are hit or miss from what ive seen...but the 247 are also mostly lead hand casted. For typical 220gr jacketed 1:8 is great. As for barrel length 8" is great. 300blk was designed to be fully burned by 8-9" of barrel. So anything longer doesnt provide much of anything.

If you want cheap you can build one pretty cheap. ive seen some 300blk 9" barrels for 100-120 bucks. Add in your handguard (say 150) and stripped upper (60) and you are only ~350 bucks into it (adding cheap gas block, gas tube, ect)
So the 1:8" does stabilize the subsonic well? I read a couple reviews on uppers or barrels and a couple people said they were getting keyholing so I wasn't sure. Well I'll take your word for it over a couple random internet dudes. ;-)

Well I suppose I can accept at least a 9" barrel then. Also, I assume I need a pistol length gas system, right, not carbine? Do you have any suggestions on where to look for barrels and/or uppers (besides Midway and CTD)? I'm gonna hit up my local gun store later today if I can make it before they close.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,722
73
91
Less than .50 a round isn't that bad...I usually shoot 9mm in mine but I have 500 or so of the other when I want to play

It isn't bad if you're shooting something really cool and special. But I can regularly find 9mm for 20 cents a round. Over N rounds, that's the difference between being broke and not. Or, another way to look at it is that's the difference between getting enough practice and not.

But everyone has their reasons, and they're all cool with me! I like to get as much range time on the cheap as possible, plus the selection if 9mm guns is really great, so it works for me. I'm sure as I get more into the hobby, I'll get into non-common stuff for the sake of variety.

Before anyone suggests 22LR for cheap range time, please keep in mind that I haven't even seen any in a year. I just pretend it doesn't exist.
 

phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
Any word on a single stack 9mm Glock subcompact? I'm loving my G19 gen 4 for fun at the range and home defense, but I'm way too small/skinny to conceal it.

Does anyone have any experience with the DiamondBack DB9? It's a Glock-like gun, minus the grip angle, and is seriously small. It can't handle +P rounds, but I really don't care about that. Reviews tend to be mixed, but most reviews I can find are pretty poor in quality.

The Kahr PM9 looks nice, but it's crazy expensive. Used ones are listed for the same price, or sometimes even more. But I think that's due to the market right now, more than the gun itself. What's with people thinking their guns are made of gold? :(

The Glock would not be import-legal (barring some shenigans like putting target sights on it and calling it a 'sporting' pistol or something), so they'd have to make it in the US...so it'd probably cost more than a G19 or G27. The G42 is already hella-overpriced...

I have not heard anything exceptionally positive or negative about the Diamondbacks. But I'd rather avoid carrying anything that cheap...not that I live by 'expensive = quality'...I'd just want, at the very least, something a bit basic, but proven. Like the hammer-fired Kel-tecs. Next step up, Kahr. CM9 is smaller than a G42. CW9 is more like a Beretta Nano or Ruger LC9.

Personally, I don't really miss lost grip length on the CM9 while shooting. But it does make drawing more difficult. Other the dangling pinky, the other notable difference is that the CM9 uses a much better recoil spring assembly. Telescoping guide rod with the two springs, just like the PM9.

As far as P9/PM9 versus CW9/CM9...you lose VERY little going with the nearly half-price guns. Rifling is land/groove rather than polygonal. Front sight is pinned plastic instead of dovetailed metal. Those are probably the biggest two differences...and they matter very little on this type of gun. Oh, and I think the cheap guns have a cast slide stop instead of milled...never heard of one breaking, either way.

Being a Glock guy (I guess?), what you really need to decide is if you must have a Glock-esque trigger. I.e. your average partially-precocked striker trigger...relatively short travel and reset, 4-6lb pull, general lack of stacking or 'staginess'...

...you don't get that in a Kahr. Kahr triggers are long. On purpose. If you can't live with a long trigger (to me, it's a must for a small carry gun with no external safety), don't look at Kahr. Or any 'true' DAO's (Kahr calls their guns DAO, but they are not capable of restriking).
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
It isn't bad if you're shooting something really cool and special. But I can regularly find 9mm for 20 cents a round. Over N rounds, that's the difference between being broke and not. Or, another way to look at it is that's the difference between getting enough practice and not.

But everyone has their reasons, and they're all cool with me! I like to get as much range time on the cheap as possible, plus the selection if 9mm guns is really great, so it works for me. I'm sure as I get more into the hobby, I'll get into non-common stuff for the sake of variety.

Before anyone suggests 22LR for cheap range time, please keep in mind that I haven't even seen any in a year. I just pretend it doesn't exist.
That's the cool thing about the pistol, you get to use either caliber;)
 

Jerem

Senior member
May 25, 2014
303
38
91
Nice! I have the full size and I love it, .22 tcm is a fun round to shoot, big bang and flash but no recoil...ammosupplywarehouse.com almost always has it in stock and they have reloading components as well if you're into that

Cool! I'll give them a try. I'm waitng on a couple boxes from Cheaper Than Dirt right now. There is a secluded spot in the hills near me I plan on setting up with water jugs, watermelon, cantelope etc. and having a blast.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
So the 1:8" does stabilize the subsonic well? I read a couple reviews on uppers or barrels and a couple people said they were getting keyholing so I wasn't sure. Well I'll take your word for it over a couple random internet dudes. ;-)

I havent had any issue with 1:8 in my 16" or 8.2" barrels. I mostly just shoot 208gr AMAX or match bullets though. But the 220 were just fine too for the 100 or so i used.

Well I suppose I can accept at least a 9" barrel then. Also, I assume I need a pistol length gas system, right, not carbine? Do you have any suggestions on where to look for barrels and/or uppers (besides Midway and CTD)? I'm gonna hit up my local gun store later today if I can make it before they close.

For short barrels youll probably find everything in a pistol length. My current 16" has a pistol length. but the old 16 inch had a carbine. Just depends. Both worked just fine though.

I buy most everything from Rainier Arms. But they are local to me so its supporting a good company. But i have their ultramatch 16" and 8.5" barrels for 300blk. Both shoot subMOA so im happy with them! But RA also sells many other brands of barrels so you can have a good pick. Even the cheap "mountain" and "select" series of RA barrels shoot well from what ive seen!
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,255
403
126
Thanks for the help.

I did get to the gun store yesterday just before they closed. They had a CMMG 8" barrel for $170 and a 10.5" (I think, or 10") Odin barrel for $229. The guy there reiterated that 8-9" was all that was needed for 300 BLK and showed me his 300 BLK AR pistol and said it shot out to 300 yards great.

They had a complete upper but the thing was some absurd price, like $750, so I'm just gonna build my own. I'd like to anyway since I've been thinking about building one and have the lower built already. Probably gonna go with a 7" Troy Alpha rail (I have a 13" one on my 556 AR and love it) but I'd prefer a keymod rail. Not sure where I can get one. I know Wheaton Arms makes one but I didn't see one at their website.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,420
9,727
136
FINALLY!!!!!!
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/fenixgoon/MVPpatrol_in_action_small.jpg

took me 4 weeks but by god i finally got to the range. i normally shoot long arms left-handed, but i wasn't having much luck hitting exactly where i wanted on paper @ 100yds (my left side is physically not as strong, only does fine motor skill like writing).

i switched over to right-hand, and also shooting a steel target so i could hear it, and i was nailing it all day. :wub: my nikon monarch 2.5-10x

but damn does this thing kick like a mule. i'll probably need a different shoulder pad. i have some nice bruising :p
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,722
73
91
The Glock would not be import-legal (barring some shenigans like putting target sights on it and calling it a 'sporting' pistol or something), so they'd have to make it in the US...so it'd probably cost more than a G19 or G27. The G42 is already hella-overpriced...

I have not heard anything exceptionally positive or negative about the Diamondbacks. But I'd rather avoid carrying anything that cheap...not that I live by 'expensive = quality'...I'd just want, at the very least, something a bit basic, but proven. Like the hammer-fired Kel-tecs. Next step up, Kahr. CM9 is smaller than a G42. CW9 is more like a Beretta Nano or Ruger LC9.

Personally, I don't really miss lost grip length on the CM9 while shooting. But it does make drawing more difficult. Other the dangling pinky, the other notable difference is that the CM9 uses a much better recoil spring assembly. Telescoping guide rod with the two springs, just like the PM9.

As far as P9/PM9 versus CW9/CM9...you lose VERY little going with the nearly half-price guns. Rifling is land/groove rather than polygonal. Front sight is pinned plastic instead of dovetailed metal. Those are probably the biggest two differences...and they matter very little on this type of gun. Oh, and I think the cheap guns have a cast slide stop instead of milled...never heard of one breaking, either way.

Being a Glock guy (I guess?), what you really need to decide is if you must have a Glock-esque trigger. I.e. your average partially-precocked striker trigger...relatively short travel and reset, 4-6lb pull, general lack of stacking or 'staginess'...

...you don't get that in a Kahr. Kahr triggers are long. On purpose. If you can't live with a long trigger (to me, it's a must for a small carry gun with no external safety), don't look at Kahr. Or any 'true' DAO's (Kahr calls their guns DAO, but they are not capable of restriking).

Great post - thanks!

So you've told me where not to look if I like the Glock trigger. I haven't ruled out the "long and heavy" triggers, but what should I look at if I wanted something with less travel? Subcompact, pocket-sized 9mm, of course.
 

IGemini

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2010
2,473
2
81
Import legality is a moot/academic point given that Glock has a factory in Smyrna, GA.

For pocket 9s with less travel, I think your best bets are in this order:
Springfield XDs
Ruger LC9s
M&P Shield
KelTec PF9