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YAGT: OMG I love guns

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CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
1
0
I really encourage anyone that is into handguns to go out and pick up a cheap .22 plinker. You'll get so much more experience (not just with accuracy and handling, but malfunctions as well) and you can shoot all day without breaking the bank. You're talking about $0.04 / round (or less) for .22 compared to $0.24 / round for 9mm just buying boxes from a gun shop. For .380, .40, or .45 ACP, you're looking at more like $0.40ish per round.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
1
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I may end up doing that if I can't find money...:(. Not to say it isn't a good idea, because it is, but I wanted something with a bit more bang. A .22 seems like a bb gun.
It's better to have a something small and wimpy that you can practice a lot on than something with a big bang and expensive ammo that you can't afford to purchase enough of. It really takes hundreds or thousands of rounds to get comfortable with firearms in general, so the more you shoot and learn proper technique and safety, the better.

Let's put it this way: if the world was coming to an end, and I could choose between two people to take with me - one that only had a .22 and had practiced with thousands of rounds, and another with a .45 that had only shot a couple of magazines in their life, I'd take the person with the .22 any day.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,121
784
126
if the world was coming to an end, and I could choose between two people to take with me - one that only had a .22 and had practiced with thousands of rounds, and another with a .45 that had only shot a couple of magazines in their life, I'd take the person with the .22 any day.
I'm gonna need to know if either one of them has a vagina. And if both, which is hotter.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
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Let's try this again, minus the time-warp...

Man, the firearm hobby sure is addictive and expensive. I just got my CCW permit a few months ago, and I've already purchased:

S&W Bodyguard, .380
Colt 1911 XSE Government Model, .45 ACP (stainless)
Ruger SR22, .22 LR (cheap target practice)
Sig P250 2SUM, 9x19 (full-sized frame / slide + subcompact frame / slide; tritium sights)

So far the Colt is my favorite by a mile. The ammo is expensive, but it's hard to beat the excellent single action trigger pull and overall feel of the pistol. The Bodyguard is great for carry, but too snappy and expensive to shoot for regular target practice. The SR22 was bought just to have something cheap to plink with, and it serves it's purpose well. I really enjoy the magazine - quite easy to load for a .22. The Sig P250 is my latest addition, and I'm still trying to figure out if I like it or not. The DAO trigger is so-so, mainly due to the long reset, and I'm just not a huge fan of the wide slide and overall blockiness of the gun. I love the modular system, and I hope that I'm warm up to it over time.

Firearms aside, it is an extremely expensive hobby due to the extras required. Aside from .22, just about everything is relatively expensive to shoot. I've been paying ~$20 / 50rds for .380 and .45, and ~$13 for 50rds of 9mm. I've already been through several hundred rounds of .45 and 100-150 rounds of 9mm, and the cost adds up quick. .22 is great though; $20 for 500rds. For that price, I can shoot all day.

In addition to ammo, there's the added cost of safes, gun locks, hearing protection, cleaning materials, holsters, etc.

Worst (perhaps best?) of all, I already have many more firearms that I'd like to check out and potentially own some day. Beretta 92FS, CZ P-01, some form of .357 magnum revolver, Ruger 10/22, AR-15, some kind of bolt-action .308, and maybe even a Glock some day.

It's all worth it to me, though. I enjoy it, and it sure beats sitting on the computer playing games.

The best part is, I have truly learned to understand and respect firearms. The basic safety practices were common sense to me, but things like knowing how to make a firearm safe if needed, understanding the dangers of malfunctions (hang fire, squib load, etc.), and seeing the damage they can do first-hand (not just to a target, but to your hearing) were invaluable experiences. I really think of all things we see in movies, firearms are probably one of the most misunderstood. I wish safety courses were cheap and readily available for everyone to take, just to get familiar with firearms and dispel many of the myths floating around.
Very true. The difficulty for me is finding a 9mm pistol that fits my hands well. Most of the grips feel very wide (S&W M&P, Springfield XD, Glock, Sig P226, Beretta 92, etc.) and the P250 was one of the few that fit well. The CZ 75 was another one.

By the way, I'm all ears on suggestions of other 9mm's with slender grips to check out. :)

If you like the 1911 and you want a 9mm, get a 1911 in 9mm. Or a Hi-Power. RIA has 9mm 1911's under $500. You can get used Browning Hi-Powers from $250 (FEG Clones, Israelli Kareems) to $450 for actual Browning/FN's. New they're $800-$900.
As far as Alkymists BS about not trusting a sub $1500 1911, I'll take my STI or my Smith and Wesson 1911 up against any $1500+ 1911 in a reliability test. 99% of reliability in a 1911 is the mag. Wilson 47D mags are pricey, but they just work.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,720
437
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Freedom Munitions starts at $8.99/box plus shipping.
Is that a brand or a store? If a brand, where at?


I really encourage anyone that is into handguns to go out and pick up a cheap .22 plinker. You'll get so much more experience (not just with accuracy and handling, but malfunctions as well) and you can shoot all day without breaking the bank. You're talking about $0.04 / round (or less) for .22 compared to $0.24 / round for 9mm just buying boxes from a gun shop. For .380, .40, or .45 ACP, you're looking at more like $0.40ish per round.
I would say not to go too cheap on the 22 route. Some of them simply aren't made to last, or are way too picky about ammo. I would spend a solid 300-400 to get a quality Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mark III. My buckmark is a great shooter and seems to take whatever I put into it.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
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If you like the 1911 and you want a 9mm, get a 1911 in 9mm. Or a Hi-Power. RIA has 9mm 1911's under $500. You can get used Browning Hi-Powers from $250 (FEG Clones, Israelli Kareems) to $450 for actual Browning/FN's. New they're $800-$900.
As far as Alkymists BS about not trusting a sub $1500 1911, I'll take my STI or my Smith and Wesson 1911 up against any $1500+ 1911 in a reliability test. 99% of reliability in a 1911 is the mag. Wilson 47D mags are pricey, but they just work.
I wouldn't say that. My Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator came with 2 stock Springfield 7-rounders and I've never had a single failure. The Springfield 10 rounder (from Loaded Coupon) has failure to go into battery with Speer Lawman (oddly) but has been perfectly reliable otherwise.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
I may end up doing that if I can't find money...:(. Not to say it isn't a good idea, because it is, but I wanted something with a bit more bang. A .22 seems like a bb gun.
.22LR out of a pistol makes plenty of bang.

Is that a brand or a store? If a brand, where at?
Freedommunitions.com Look at the Blaster training ammo section.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
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Well, when i used my BILs Ruger SR22 it just sounded like little pops vs his Glock 22 which comparatively sounded like a cannon.
what .22 ammo was he using? there is ammo out there (Aguila brand) that basically has no powder, it just uses the primer (if i'm not mistaken). much quieter but also much less power.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,079
12,881
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I usually average 50 a week with at least one gun.
Glock 17 and Sig P290 use 9mm.
P238 and LCP use .380. But they are smaller and what I'm more likely to carry, they need more practice.
Mark III of course is dirt cheap but needs more thorough cleaning whenever I do shoot. Less tolerant of dirt and grease.
I havent shot my 410 in forever.


Oh, and for those who dont know, Militec really does work. All my guns operate much smoother than before. And they dont need nearly as much lubricant to fire.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
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not true at all.
So, please enlighten me as to what a good 1911 mag is. Or where the most common failures occur on 1911's. Besides feeding issues which are either mag related because the cheap mags either have underpowered springs, crappy followers, or the feed lips are out of spec. The only other issue I see commonly with 1911's is ejection problmes, and that can usually be fixed in under 5 minutes with a little tuning of the extractor.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
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So, please enlighten me as to what a good 1911 mag is. Or where the most common failures occur on 1911's. Besides feeding issues which are either mag related because the cheap mags either have underpowered springs, crappy followers, or the feed lips are out of spec. The only other issue I see commonly with 1911's is ejection problmes, and that can usually be fixed in under 5 minutes with a little tuning of the extractor.
yeah a better clip and '5 mins' on the extractor turns a cheap 1911 into a good one /facepalm.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
1
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So, please enlighten me as to what a good 1911 mag is. Or where the most common failures occur on 1911's. Besides feeding issues which are either mag related because the cheap mags either have underpowered springs, crappy followers, or the feed lips are out of spec. The only other issue I see commonly with 1911's is ejection problmes, and that can usually be fixed in under 5 minutes with a little tuning of the extractor.
Heh, it's only a single case and definitely doesn't prove anything, but my 1911 is my only pistol that hasn't had a single malfunction in my hands. My Bodyguard had a few, the SR22 has had a decent amount, and even the new P250 has had 3-4 FTE's already. The 1911 has only had one issue, and that was a FTE after putting on new Hogue grips that caused my wife to limp-wrist it.

I've been pretty lucky with the stock Colt magazines. I'll eventually be swapping them out for something better, but for now I can't complain. I've heard numerous complains about stock Kimber magazines though.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
personally as well as many people dont like the feel of a Glock.
So you admit that your dislike of .45 is just personal feelings. Glad we're clear.


not true at all.
It's totally true that the mag is a vast majority of the issue: most 1911s out there when maintained well, feed a round, return to battery, fire, extract and eject fine. My CCO can with two Checkmate mags, I picked up some Wilson Combat mags and another company I cannot remember the name of, but is held up there with Wilson. THey feed fine. I've shot 1911s with cheaper magazines, they fail to feed. Give it a Wilson Combat mag and suddenly...it works.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
Mark III of course is dirt cheap but needs more thorough cleaning whenever I do shoot. Less tolerant of dirt and grease.
Definitely not the case with mine... I pretty much only shoot Federal bulk stuff through it which is ridiculously dirty. I wipe it out with CLP every 500 rounds or so and do a strip & thorough clean a couple times a year.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
So you admit that your dislike of .45 is just personal feelings. Glad we're clear.




It's totally true that the mag is a vast majority of the issue: most 1911s out there when maintained well, feed a round, return to battery, fire, extract and eject fine. My CCO can with two Checkmate mags, I picked up some Wilson Combat mags and another company I cannot remember the name of, but is held up there with Wilson. THey feed fine. I've shot 1911s with cheaper magazines, they fail to feed. Give it a Wilson Combat mag and suddenly...it works.
Wilson magazines effectively bypasses one part of the traditional feeding mechanism in the 1911. I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully explain and am trying to remember what my smith told me. They basically "lose control" of the round as it feeds so that it pops up and is then pushed into the chamber instead of being pushed up from the lip of the magazine into the chamber. I personally use wilson and cobra tripp magazines in my 1911's. I also like checkpoint magazines.

Remember that the 1911's is the start of the design, but every manufacturer will do things a little differently. Ramped barrel or not, what angle, how deep of a groove, feed lip height on the magazine, angle and material of the follower, spring strength and design, etc. Heck, even same guns from the same run will be just slightly different with tolerances in machining. What works for everyone else might not work for you and vice versa.

Oh yea, and speaking of 22's. I prefer browning buckmarks over the rugers. Teardown is just easier for the buckmarks.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
no problems with my SA Mil-spec or SA Trophy Match. both cost me less way less that $1500
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Wilson magazines effectively bypasses one part of the traditional feeding mechanism in the 1911. I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully explain and am trying to remember what my smith told me. They basically "lose control" of the round as it feeds so that it pops up and is then pushed into the chamber instead of being pushed up from the lip of the magazine into the chamber. I personally use wilson and cobra tripp magazines in my 1911's. I also like checkpoint magazines.

Remember that the 1911's is the start of the design, but every manufacturer will do things a little differently. Ramped barrel or not, what angle, how deep of a groove, feed lip height on the magazine, angle and material of the follower, spring strength and design, etc. Heck, even same guns from the same run will be just slightly different with tolerances in machining. What works for everyone else might not work for you and vice versa.

Oh yea, and speaking of 22's. I prefer browning buckmarks over the rugers. Teardown is just easier for the buckmarks.
You're mostly right, though "lose control" is wrong. Most modern mags do it the same way, and they release the round faster, so it doesn't get rammed into the feed ramp.

The Tripp mags are the other ones I have for which I couldn't remember the name. THey also feed with no issue. In essence, Tripp and Checkmate mags fit flush with my grip and give me 7 rounds in the mag; Wilson has a bump pad and gives me 7. I carry with a checkmate or tripp mag loaded, and wilson mags in my pocket.

For a explanation on 1911 mags:
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,438
5
81
You're mostly right, though "lose control" is wrong. Most modern mags do it the same way, and they release the round faster, so it doesn't get rammed into the feed ramp.

The Tripp mags are the other ones I have for which I couldn't remember the name. THey also feed with no issue. In essence, Tripp and Checkmate mags fit flush with my grip and give me 7 rounds in the mag; Wilson has a bump pad and gives me 7. I carry with a checkmate or tripp mag loaded, and wilson mags in my pocket.

For a explanation on 1911 mags:
I don't know how much that will help people not as familiar with 1911's. :D Here is an explanation that I prefer.
http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/feeding-time.html
 

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