YACT: Holy Hell in a handbasket. Update: Compression check done. Results; Dismal. Update: Engine is alive.

[Crucial]

marked for updates

 

[funboy6942]

Keep posted, I love this stuff

 

[BUTCH1]

Make sure you clean out the intake manifolds before installing the head, if any shrapnel from the
plugs got in there it would get sucked back in at startup. I got my head re-man'ed at a local
machine shop, ground the valves cleaned it and installed new seats for $150, drove the car
for another 20K after that. Good luck and keep us updated...

 

[Mo0o]

This seems like a lot of work for a 1990 tercel

 

[Vic]

Sorry, Eli

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Changing the plugs definitely didn't cause this problem.

I agree that it's too suspicious that only two cylinders next to each other are the ones without compression.

I don't know that it's that suspiscious. Those are the two cylinders where the plugs shattered and sharpnel ran through the cylinders. Makes sense to me. A little coincidental that it was those two, but not enough to make me suspiscious.

ZV

Yes, but I'm a professional....it's my job to be suspicious about car problems.

You don't just have two plugs in adjacent cylinders go bad at the same exact time. Could it happen? Is it possible? Yes, but VERY unlikely, so you generally rule the unlikely out and go to the likely, which in this case was a head gasket or (but hopefully not, for Eli's sake) the head.

Oh, and Eli...that t-stat running the engine so hot is probably what caused the problem in the first place.

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Old Hippie
You guys are much handier and optomistic than I. I'm sure, I would have already picked a grave site.

And I love people like you cuz I would of bought your car from you for less then $50, stuck another $200-$300 in it fixing the head/gasket problem, and resold the car for $1500 making me a nice little profit in a matter of days

And I can fffeeeellll the love! :laugh:

 

[Analog]

Amazing pictures Eli. I feel for 'ya man...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Changing the plugs definitely didn't cause this problem.

I agree that it's too suspicious that only two cylinders next to each other are the ones without compression.

I don't know that it's that suspiscious. Those are the two cylinders where the plugs shattered and sharpnel ran through the cylinders. Makes sense to me. A little coincidental that it was those two, but not enough to make me suspiscious.

ZV

Yes, but I'm a professional....it's my job to be suspicious about car problems.

You don't just have two plugs in adjacent cylinders go bad at the same exact time. Could it happen? Is it possible? Yes, but VERY unlikely, so you generally rule the unlikely out and go to the likely, which in this case was a head gasket or (but hopefully not, for Eli's sake) the head.

Oh, and Eli...that t-stat running the engine so hot is probably what caused the problem in the first place.

Good point.

Though I'm not sure that it really got to 240 degrees... That would have been into the red zone, not just the upper 3rd of the "normal" range I would think. On my cars, the red zone of the temp guage starts between 220 and 240 degrees (depending on which car) and the top 3rd starts at about 210. If he wasn't in the red zone, he was probably "only" seeing coolant temps in the 220 degree range at worst.

I could be wrong though, I don't have the temp gauge sender curves for a 1990 Tercel.

ZV

 

[Vic]

Just my armchair internet $0.02 here...

The engine det'ed itself to death. 90 mph in an older Tercel for an extended distance (70 mph speed limit, Eli? Were you driving up to Seattle or something?), the weather has been relatively warm here lately, newer carbs larger than stock and tuned lean, and the most important part -- plugs 2 steps too hot.
As Eli already noted in his OP, that was the biggest mistake, and what IMO surely led to the failure. I understand that he was having a problem with fouling plugs, but under those conditions he should have been running colder plugs, not hotter.

Eli, don't get too down on yourself about it, just check and see if FAP or some other boneyard out there has another engine you can transplant. Shouldn't be expensive, just a lot of work.

 

[Eli]

I don't know if it really got up to 240º either, It was just a guess. In the book, it says the thermostat is supposed to start to open at 190º and be fully open by 212º, which seems to be at 50% on the gauge. It probably didn't get that hot, but was definitely running hotter than normal. The thought crossed my mind that it could have damaged the head gasket which ultimately lead to this failure, but I don't know. I drove it that way for 6 month.. and it finally failed after I fixed it? Kinda funny.

As far as detonation.. It's possible, the way I was driving it.. since I wouldn't have been able to hear anything. But the engine didn't ping at all, even at high RPM, when running through the gears. Believe me, I know what it sounds like. The engine pinged like crazy before I replaced the stock carburetor.. It was seriously malfunctioning, and the rebuild did little.

I'm not down about it, it's an important lesson.. Happens to the best of us. I just wish things were a little more concise.. I'll figure it out once I get the head off. Maybe if I'm lucky, the head gasket failed and in reality it has little to do with much else. The plugs in #3 and $4 weren't literally white as a ghost, they did have some tan deposits on them. I'll need to wait until its fixed to know for sure, but I'm still a little skeptical about how lean it was.

I changed too many variables at once.. Shame on me. I know better.

As far as "a lot of work", nah.

Carb, radiator, thermostat, plugs, wires, cap, rotor. All routine maintenance besides the first two items, but easy stuff. I've had more trouble with lawnmowers.

I replaced the radiator because the top radiator hose nipple had probably cracked at some point, and it was cut off. But it was really stubby and had a tendency to pop off.

 

[BUTCH1]

Might want to hook up the EGR valve as well, I tried to run 2 cars with it disconnected and both pinged
like mad unless I ran 93 octane. Just pull the head and see were your at, while it's off have a machine
shop go over it ,if it's not too bad have it re-conditioned w/ the better valve stem seals. With the notoriously
tough Toyota bottom end you could get another 100K out of it..

 

[Crucial]

update? arew you still driving it as is?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Crucial
update? arew you still driving it as is?

No, the head gasket was really blown, it wasn't really drivable. The coolant system would have been so gunked up after a couple of hundred more miles that it probably would have ceased to function. I've been driving my truck around, which gets about 10MPG.. on a good day, with a tailwind.. downhill.

It sat around for a while, but I've got a job lined up now.. so I began to work on it the last few days.

Pulled the head off to check things out and for core exchange. Have Cylinder Head Specialists here in Portland building me a new one. These guys know their stuff, and their machine shop is immaculate. I went with them mostly because of their 1 year, 12,000 mile warranty, but after seeing their operation and talking to some folks, I was even more impressed. New valves, springs.. 3 angle valve job, viton valve stem seals.. Engine could be good for another 150,000 miles.

Anyway.. The cylinders look OK, so fortunately none of the shattered spark plug ceramic tore anything up. Amazing, considering I was spinning an estimated 5,000RPM when the head gasket blew and gave my sparkplugs a nice cool bath.

The exhaust valves were indeed toasty, though. :Q I'm thinking that even the main jet in my carburetor is too lean.. I'm going to have to richen the idle mixture up and drive it gently until I can look into it, especially considering my new job will involve driving about 140 miles a day.

Here are some pics.. Nothing really much to see, but hey.. pics are good.

Engine pr0n

All of the cylinders still have their crosshatch! This pleased me.

Toasty exhaust valves :Q

Obviously the two cylinders on the left were the leaky ones.

My sparkplug just saw a ghost. :Q

Cam looks good, at least.. bit of varnish is all. No scoring, pitting or burning visible.

Although none of that really matters since I'm not having this head rebuilt..

 

[funboy6942]

OOOOO Engine Pron, flap, flap, flap, ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Crosshatch is good, then that bottom half is still nice and tight, good head on there, and she be good I bet for 200k, while you have it all apart now would be a good time to throw on another timing belt, even if you just did it recently, and water pump as well if that is run in there too.

 

[cliftonite]

That keyboard is filthy (dont know anything about cars so I am whining about the keyboard)

 

[cKGunslinger]

Maybe I missed something, but couldn't you just drop $2k on used car? Are all these repairs worth it, or is it more of a hobby than a necessity?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: funboy42
OOOOO Engine Pron, flap, flap, flap, ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Crosshatch is good, then that bottom half is still nice and tight, good head on there, and she be good I bet for 200k, while you have it all apart now would be a good time to throw on another timing belt, even if you just did it recently, and water pump as well if that is run in there too.

Really think I should bother?

I just had them both done 10k miles ago.... The belt still looks brand new.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Maybe I missed something, but couldn't you just drop $2k on used car? Are all these repairs worth it, or is it more of a hobby than a necessity?

I did spend 2k on a used car. It was a 1990 Toyota Tercel that needed a bunch of work. lol

I'm hoping that all said and done, I'll have a reliable car for several tens of thousands of miles.

 

[dud]

I'm sorry ... but you're having all of this work done and spending all of this money on a 1990 Tercel?

 

[ViviTheMage]

plug ownage!

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: dud
I'm sorry ... but you're having all of this work done and spending all of this money on a 1990 Tercel?

Gas mileage is great, car was in good shape when he got it , and he knows the status of it. It's been taken care of, and has plenty of life left in it. When you get down to numbers, this is the cheapest way to have a car. He knows what he's doing too, well generally lol, but it makes having an older car not as much of an issue.

Cars last longer than most keep them for... I think on average people keep a car for 5 or 6 years? They can go much longer if taken care of... my 91 Accord is still going strong with almost 190k miles.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: dud
I'm sorry ... but you're having all of this work done and spending all of this money on a 1990 Tercel?

"All of this work"?

:laugh:

The remanufactured head will set me back 200 bucks. These are not expensive repairs. This is a simple 12 valve, single overhead cam, carbureted engine.

Basically, it boils down to the fact that it is a crapshot with any 17 year old car.

If I were to junk the Tercel and buy another used car, I could very well end up in the same place that I was when I first bought this one - with a car that needs a lot of routine maintenance to make it reliable again.

Of course, you can always hope to find one where the owner has taken immaculate care of it, and gotten all repairs done as needed... But that is rare. Most people wait until either the car is making horrible noises, or just simply won't move anymore to fix things.

Besides.. I averaged 35MPG over the course of 250 miles doing 80 most of the way. I'm keeping this car until it protests by throwing one of it's connecting rods at me or something.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Maybe I missed something, but couldn't you just drop $2k on used car? Are all these repairs worth it, or is it more of a hobby than a necessity?

I did spend 2k on a used car. It was a 1990 Toyota Tercel that needed a bunch of work. lol

I'm hoping that all said and done, I'll have a reliable car for several tens of thousands of miles.

Oh, ok. I was under the impression that you've had this car since 1990. I was going to suggest you let it go, man. Let it go.

 

[BUTCH1]

You will be amazed what a new valve train will do, that motor should purr when
completed. If it has hydraulic lifters don't freak out when you first get it started if
runs like crap, it takes a bit for the pressure to build up. When I did my head that's
what happened, it took 15-20 minutes of run time to resume normal operation. A good
machine shop will "bench" bleed the lifters before installing them in the head so this won't
happen..

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1If it has hydraulic lifters don't freak out when you first get it started if runs like crap, it takes a bit for the pressure to build up.

But all that tickin' is a mighty fine soundtrack