YACT: A dealer hates me!

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Vic
I think you should have given "Dealer A" a second chance. Personally, I don't care who I buy from so long as I get the best deal.

notfred, it's called a "dealer trade", where dealers trade amongst themselves. If you want a specific car, it is possible to buy it from a dealer other than the one whose lot it sits on. However, the dealer who has the car on their lot technically owns it and does not have to do the deal if they don't want to.

They risk dealerB *never* trading in return. At some point they will have a buyer for a car that DealerB has, and they will want to trade.

Originally posted by: Banana

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I win either way since dealer B has promised me a car with certain specs at a certain price. They may just have to bring it in from another state instead of another side of town.

Riiiiiiight--when they get around to it. They didn't promise a car within a certain time frame, did they?

Why would dealer B stall? They have already made an offer they are willing to live with, why does it matter to them where it came from? All dealer B knows is they don't have the car on the lot and need to get one to fill the order. Remember, they are *trying* to make a sell, not piss the customer off.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
That's pretty funny. If you want to get Dealer A into trouble, explain all of this to the car manufacturer's dealership network office. I'm sure they'd like to hear about it.

Oh, I will! 😀

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I win either way since dealer B has promised me a car with certain specs at a certain price. They may just have to bring it in from another state instead of another side of town.

Uhh no. Even if you have already signed the entire purchase contract with them, Dealer B is under no legal obligation to complete the transaction if they are unable to acquire the vehicle.
Nor is Dealer A required to perform the dealer trade, although it is unusual for dealers to not trade as they never know when they might need the same favor for a Dealer B in the future.

My advice is to give Dealer A one last shot at matching Dealer B's price. If not, then just hang on and wait out Dealer B getting another, similar vehicle (although once again they have no obligation to do so and could change the price when they find one by claiming that the car is somehow different). Pardon my saying so, but you're not being the best of buyers here. Emotion is something a buyer should wisely leave out of the transaction, as it never does him any good. Be careful lest it sucks you in.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I win either way since dealer B has promised me a car with certain specs at a certain price. They may just have to bring it in from another state instead of another side of town.

Uhh no. Even if you have already signed the entire purchase contract with them, Dealer B is under no legal obligation to complete the transaction if they are unable to acquire the vehicle.
Nor is Dealer A required to perform the dealer trade, although it is unusual for dealers to not trade as they never know when they might need the same favor for a Dealer B in the future.

My advice is to give Dealer A one last shot at matching Dealer B's price. If not, then just hang on and wait out Dealer B getting another, similar vehicle (although once again they have no obligation to do so and could change the price when they find one by claiming that the car is somehow different). Pardon my saying so, but you're not being the best of buyers here. Emotion is something a buyer should wisely leave out of the transaction, as it never does him any good. Be careful lest it sucks you in.

Emotion has nothing to do with it. I'M sorry, but I still believe that if you give someone your word, "Okay, Mr. Salesman, you've done a lot for me, so I agree to buy the car from you," that still means something. Dealer B has seemingly gone out of its way to be helpful. The price they are offering is at invoice for a loaded 2005 car, and BELOW Edmunds' TMV price and below carsdirect.com's price. If I am getting a good deal, why break it?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So I did an online inventory search and found a good match at Atlanta dealer A. I contacted dealer A to give them a one-shot chance to give me an OTD price quote. They gave me a quote, and I took that info to dealer B. Dealer B could easily beat that price, so I began negotiations at dealer B. So I leave dealer B with a written agreement on car and price. Dealer B calls me later to confirm that they have secured the car from dealer A and will transport it to dealer B. After that call, I receive four phonecalls (during dinner) from dealer A, trying to earn my business, but I already have given my word to dealer B, and refuse to give dealer A any information regarding business and agreements with dealer B.

Fast-forward to this morning and dealer A refuses to give the car to dealer B because they are pissed off at me. As far as I am concerned, dealer A had their chance, so fvck them now! I don't mess around. Dealers have one chance to give me a quote and that's it.

Dealer A HAS TO giveit to dealer B or else they won't be selling cars any longer. Call the manufacturer and tell them EXACTLY what has happened.

You can always go to carsdirect.com by the way. The car might be delivered to dealer A and they have to deliver it to you!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
That's pretty funny. If you want to get Dealer A into trouble, explain all of this to the car manufacturer's dealership network office. I'm sure they'd like to hear about it.

Why would they get into trouble? Dealer A is under no obligation to trade cars with Dealer B. In fact, they could easily claim that they have another buyer who is willing to pay more for it, and that's why they're holding onto it. And as manufacturers like to see their cars sell for as much as possible, they would take Dealer A's on the issue.

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
They risk dealerB *never* trading in return. At some point they will have a buyer for a car that DealerB has, and they will want to trade.

I understand exactly how this works, and admit that it is somewhat unusual. Obviously there is either some bad blood in the past between these 2 dealers or maybe GTaudiophile did something to piss somebody off. Or maybe Dealer B is trying to screw Dealer A on the trade.
Keep in mind that dealers are always playing games amongst each other, and we have no way of knowing what is happening behind the scenes here.

 

[GRIFFIN1]

The only thing you can do now is drive over to dealer A's lot at about 3am. Using a baseball bat, smash out all the windows of all the cars except the car you are wanting to buy.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
That's pretty funny. If you want to get Dealer A into trouble, explain all of this to the car manufacturer's dealership network office. I'm sure they'd like to hear about it.

Why would they get into trouble? Dealer A is under no obligation to trade cars with Dealer B. In fact, they could easily claim that they have another buyer who is willing to pay more for it, and that's why they're holding onto it. And as manufacturers like to see their cars sell for as much as possible, they would take Dealer A's on the issue.

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
They risk dealerB *never* trading in return. At some point they will have a buyer for a car that DealerB has, and they will want to trade.

I understand exactly how this works, and admit that it is somewhat unusual. Obviously there is either some bad blood in the past between these 2 dealers or maybe GTaudiophile did something to piss somebody off. Or maybe Dealer B is trying to screw Dealer A on the trade.
Keep in mind that dealers are always playing games amongst each other, and we have no way of knowing what is happening behind the scenes here.

My communication with Dealer A:
1) Give me quote on car X.
2) Quote given.
3) Quote beaten by dealer B, and I agree to buy from dealer B.
4) Dealer A calls 4 times last night, wanting to deal.
5) I tell Dealer A I am buying from elsewhere. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Emotion has nothing to do with it. I'M sorry, but I still believe that if you give someone your word, "Okay, Mr. Salesman, you've done a lot for me, so I agree to buy the car from you," that still means something. Dealer B has seemingly gone out of its way to be helpful. The price they are offering is at invoice for a loaded 2005 car, and BELOW Edmunds' TMV price and below carsdirect.com's price. If I am getting a good deal, why break it?

Sounds like a great deal, and I admire your integrity. However, when's the last time a car salesman kept his word with YOU? Remember that they made this great deal for you on a car that is not actually in their inventory.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Emotion has nothing to do with it. I'M sorry, but I still believe that if you give someone your word, "Okay, Mr. Salesman, you've done a lot for me, so I agree to buy the car from you," that still means something. Dealer B has seemingly gone out of its way to be helpful. The price they are offering is at invoice for a loaded 2005 car, and BELOW Edmunds' TMV price and below carsdirect.com's price. If I am getting a good deal, why break it?

Sounds like a great deal, and I admire your integrity. However, when's the last time a car salesman kept his word with YOU? Remember that they made this great deal for you on a car that is not actually in their inventory.

So far I have no reason to believe Dealer B won't. They've found another car, and if dealer A continues to stall, will get it instead and sell it at the agreed-upon price in 48 hours instead of 24. I have at least already received vocal confirmation of this.

 

[Uppsala9496]

Dealer A will end up giving the car to Dealer B if dealer B calls headquarters.
I've done this on occassion because I've dealt with a dealer in the past and disliked their service. What car company is this? I've only dealt with GM (pontiac) and have a corporate discount with them, so there was no way dealer A would be able to deny dealer B in sending over a car (a few quick phone calls to Detroit would solve that issue).

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: Vic
My advice is to give Dealer A one last shot at matching Dealer B's price. If not, then just hang on and wait out Dealer B getting another, similar vehicle (although once again they have no obligation to do so and could change the price when they find one by claiming that the car is somehow different). Pardon my saying so, but you're not being the best of buyers here. Emotion is something a buyer should wisely leave out of the transaction, as it never does him any good. Be careful lest it sucks you in.

It's rare I disagree with you, Vic, but I'm puzzled about why Dealer A should get last shot. To me that rewards sellers who quote a high price while saying "But remember, I'll beat any deal." Then the buyer has to do all the legwork tracking down other quotes. Should Dealer A get the sale just because they get to go last? I don't think that's right. If a dealer is asked for his best price, that's it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My communication with Dealer A:
1) Give me quote on car X.
2) Quote given.
3) Quote beaten by dealer B, and I agree to buy from dealer B.
4) Dealer A calls 4 times last night, wanting to deal.
5) I tell Dealer A I am buying from elsewhere. Thanks but no thanks.

I would have given Dealer A a second chance to beat Dealer B's price. IMO that is just standard negotiating practice, and YOU are the only one who would profit from it. Either beat Dealer B's price or hand over the car. The consumer always wins in a price war. Telling Dealer A off when they know that Dealer B was simply low-balling on THEIR car probably pissed them off.

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So far I have no reason to believe Dealer B won't. They've found another car, and if dealer A continues to stall, will get it instead and sell it at the agreed-upon price in 48 hours instead of 24. I have at least already received vocal confirmation of this.

Oral contracts are not binding in most states, including Georgia.

I'm not against you, I just think you should have given Dealer A another shot is all. Like I said, while I admire your integrity, it was your shutting them down that made all this personal.

 

[StageLeft]

Well that sucks, but not quite as much as not yet telling us what you're buying!!

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My communication with Dealer A:
1) Give me quote on car X.
2) Quote given.
3) Quote beaten by dealer B, and I agree to buy from dealer B.
4) Dealer A calls 4 times last night, wanting to deal.
5) I tell Dealer A I am buying from elsewhere. Thanks but no thanks.

I would have given Dealer A a second chance to beat Dealer B's price. IMO that is just standard negotiating practice, and YOU are the only one who would profit from it. Either beat Dealer B's price or hand over the car. The consumer always wins in a price war. Telling Dealer A off when they know that Dealer B was simply low-balling on THEIR car probably pissed them off.

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So far I have no reason to believe Dealer B won't. They've found another car, and if dealer A continues to stall, will get it instead and sell it at the agreed-upon price in 48 hours instead of 24. I have at least already received vocal confirmation of this.

Oral contracts are not binding in most states, including Georgia.

I'm not against you, I just think you should have given Dealer A another shot is all. Like I said, while I admire your integrity, it was your shutting them down that made all this personal.

So you're saying, not even allowing them to counter offer pissed them off? "I've gone elsewhere" is not a legit answer for them?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: kranky
It's rare I disagree with you, Vic, but I'm puzzled about why Dealer A should get last shot. To me that rewards sellers who quote a high price while saying "But remember, I'll beat any deal." Then the buyer has to do all the legwork tracking down other quotes. Should Dealer A get the sale just because they get to go last? I don't think that's right. If a dealer is asked for his best price, that's it.

No, I just go for the best deal. After giving Dealer A another chance, I would have given Dealer B another chance, going back and forth until one of them gave up. At that point then you know that you have the rockbottom price.
IMO this is how price negotiations take place. The first offer is always thrown out as ridiculous. That's just what gets the process started.

edit: And of course it's the buyer's responsibility to get the best deal for himself. That you might think otherwise just confuses me. For one thing, I don't trust a seller to get me the lowest price -- that's how they make their incomes and they got a house payments to make and a family to feed. Second (and yes this part is cynical), the way that you as the intelligent buyer are able to get the best deal is because some (less savvy) people get themselves screwed. If we all bought under invoice, these dealerships couldn't afford to stay in business very long.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
So you're saying, not even allowing them to counter offer pissed them off? "I've gone elsewhere" is not a legit answer for them?

But you haven't "gone elsewhere". You're still buying their car, but you've fscked that car from them using a competing dealership. If Dealer B actually had the car you wanted in their inventory, all of this would be different, now wouldn't it?

 

[GTaudiophile]

Just spoke to salesman at dealer B. This makes no sense:

If dealer A gives car to dealer B, dealer A would at least break even. If dealer A tries to sell me the car at the same price as dealer B, dealer A would take a loss.

So this did get personal...for dealer A.

 

[Banana]

This might be far fetched, but if Dealer A eventually ships, could it sabotage the car just to spite the OP?

 

[ohtwell]

Dealer A sounds like it's run by a bunch of frickin morons who have sticks up their asses. Sucks that this is going so crappy for you. I hope everything works out.


: ) Amanda

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Banana
This might be far fetched, but if Dealer A eventually ships, could it sabotage the car just to spite the OP?

I've thought about that.

 

[JDMnAR1]

I would have to side with the OP on this one. Having informed Dealer A at the outset that they had one chance to get his business by providing him with their best pricing OTD, they had their shot. If they sandbagged him at that time, no way do they deserve another chance to beat Dealer B who may have been a little more upfront about what their best price was from the beginning. As far as dealer transfers go, at least with Ford, they are strictly voluntary. When that vehicle is in a dealer's inventory, it is theirs to do with what they will. Granted, they will usually agree to a transfer, but there is nothing that says they have to.

 

[Mandos]

blah

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: Banana
This might be far fetched, but if Dealer A eventually ships, could it sabotage the car just to spite the OP?

I've thought about that.

yea. i thought about this immediately after reading the OP.

i would be wary of this purchase now. is there a way to get it completely checked out before purchasing? at least you will test drive the vehicle right?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Just spoke to salesman at dealer B. This makes no sense:

If dealer A gives car to dealer B, dealer A would at least break even. If dealer A tries to sell me the car at the same price as dealer B, dealer A would take a loss.

So this did get personal...for dealer A.

Hmm... at this point, I wouldn't take any car salesman's word at face value. As a general rule, the incentive in a dealer trade is that the original dealer ("A" in this case) gets to retain the holdback on the sale, and that all the dealer trades revolve around the invoice price. Thus the 2nd dealer can only profit if they sell above invoice. As Dealer B is selling the car to you at invoice, there is absolutely no profit for them in this deal. Remember that Dealer A is supposed to get to the holdback regardless of who sells it, so they are in a better position to at least make some profit than is Dealer B (had the salesman from "B" made that comment to me, I would have asked where his profit was coming from). Unless... they are insisting that Dealer A give them a portion or even all of the holdback. I might wrong here, but that could very well be what is poisoning this deal here.

Is there a trade-in with positive equity in this transaction?


edit: And no, they won't sabotage the car. Remember where I said that letting emotion get into the deal never benefits the buyer? Well, fear is an emotion.