Xbox One games at E3 were running on Geforce/Win7

[sxr7171]

They might not have had the XB1 hardware available in mass for demo kiosks, so the next best thing they can do is just run the PC versions maxed out with controllers and ridiculously powerful hardware to make sure no noticeable slow downs happen. Makes sense though IT IS completely dishonest. Makes me wonder what AMD has to say about it. For all we know, it might be true that there might be yield issues with the APU, as IIRC it does have the 32 MB of eSRAM built in and that could be source of issue.

Nothing dishonest about it. The hardware is not ready. They need to use whatever would perform as similarly as possible. Again, the Xbox 360 used a G5 mac as a dev box.

Users don't care about any of this. The warning on the demo tells you this is not final product.

Also isn't the AMD GPU based on current GPU features? So games will have to use that feature set. I doubt this will influence future development of graphical features. Both nVidia and AMD will come up with innovations that PC games will take advantage of.

So future games will be optimized to the specific features of the PS4 and Xbox One, but I doubt that having an AMD GPU will cause any difference to the PC versions of those games.

 

[rgallant]

deleted after the update of only one dev. that was using a high end PC

 

[5150Joker]

What a huge fail for Microsoft, their game partners and especially AMD. Nvidia the way it's meant to be played was taken literally by MS.

 

[galego]

Or just turn down the settings as the graphical fidelity far exceeds what current gen hardware and consoles can produce. :thumbsup:

This isn't the PS4 thread, that was locked for good reason.

Or just buy the console instead trying to match it by upgrading your PC each two years.

LOL @ 'cloud' making the games look better. For FMV, maybe, stream 1080p cutscenes. Syncing up graphical content? Give me a break. There's a reason we don't use AGP anymore, and AGP is like lightning speed compared to the best internet any home user will ever have.

No. Microsoft knows what are the latency and bandwidth limitations

Things that I would call latency-sensitive would be reactions to animations in a shooter, reactions to hits and shots in a racing game, reactions to collisions. Those things you need to have happen immediately and on frame and in sync with your controller. There are some things in a video game world, though, that don't necessarily need to be updated every frame or don't change that much in reaction to what's going on.

and will use the cloud computing for gaming stuff which is not affected by those

One example of that might be lighting. Let's say you're looking at a forest scene and you need to calculate the light coming through the trees, or you're going through a battlefield and have very dense volumetric fog that's hugging the terrain. Those things often involve some complicated up-front calculations when you enter that world, but they don't necessarily have to be updated every frame. Those are perfect candidates for the console to offload that to the cloud - the cloud can do the heavy lifting, because you've got the ability to throw multiple devices at the problem in the cloud.

Another known possibility for cloud computing is advanced AI. Here goes a list of games which can use the Xbox One cloud to compute things

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/0...-games-for-xbox-one-in-a-nutshell-at-e3-2013/

 

[cmdrdredd]

Or just buy the console instead trying to match it by upgrading your PC each two years.



No. Microsoft knows what are the latency and bandwidth limitations



and will use the cloud computing for gaming stuff which is not affected by those



Another known possibility for cloud computing is advanced AI. Here goes a list of games which can use the Xbox One cloud to compute things

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/0...-games-for-xbox-one-in-a-nutshell-at-e3-2013/

Advanced AI? AI needs to be dynamic and respond instantaneously to the user's input. Instant and internet connection do not work hand in hand. The latency is too large and unreliable.

 

[Stuka87]

To those saying this is the development platform, I find this laughable. You cannot give somebody one pice of hardware, that is absolutely nothing like the real hardware, and say "Here, make your games work on this." Because it means any optimizations that they do will be worthless on the real hardware.

I still think what we saw was the PC versions of those games, not the XBox versions of them.

 

[galego]

Can't wait to see this cloud come to my apt and change parts in my Xbox One. That is a cool feature. So they will deploy an army of clouds to do this?

Here a link with some info

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/...s-more-processing-power-from-cloud-computing/

Windows 8.1 looks very different from windows 7. It does not have a full start menu like Windows 7 does. Also, thats the windows 7 default desktop. Windows 8/8.1 uses a different one.

Thanks. I believed that 8.1 would look as 7

http://arstechnica.com/information-...he-start-button-boot-straight-to-the-desktop/

Consoles will never outperform a PC, nomatter how many times you repeat it.

Try to read what was actually said.

In any case that you write is evidently wrong. A Xbox One will outperform a PC with Haswell GT3e for instance. This is why Intel is not powering any console.

 

[notty22]

IMO, the developers are just publicly going along with Microsoft and this Cloud drama. It's all to justify there always connected policy. To link software to the owner etc. It will stop piracy for quite a while I imagine. And no used game market will be a revenue gain for the game companies also.

 

[galego]

Advanced AI? AI needs to be dynamic and respond instantaneously to the user's input. Instant and internet connection do not work hand in hand. The latency is too large and unreliable.

This is a Xbox One game that will use the cloud for physics and AI calculations

http://microsoft-news.com/xbox-one-shooter-titanfall-leaked-cloud-gaming-details-revealed/

To those saying this is the development platform, I find this laughable. You cannot give somebody one pice of hardware, that is absolutely nothing like the real hardware, and say "Here, make your games work on this." Because it means any optimizations that they do will be worthless on the real hardware.

I still think what we saw was the PC versions of those games, not the XBox versions of them.

+1

The dev kits run AMD hardware and software, evidently. What will do some of them crazy is that the Xbox One (and the PS4) will be competing with i7 + GTX-780...

According to reports, many if not all of the demo units at Microsoft’s E3 press event and at the booths were PCs with Xbox One comparable hardware.

According to Moore the PCs were comparable to the Xbox One dev kits, which ran titles such as Battlefield 4 during Microsoft’s presser

http://gamer.blorge.com/2013/06/16/controversy-over-xbox-one-games-running-off-windows-7-at-e3/

 

[3DVagabond]

IMO, the developers are just publicly going along with Microsoft and this Cloud drama. It's all to justify there always connected policy. To link software to the owner etc. It will stop piracy for quite a while I imagine. And no used game market will be a revenue gain for the game companies also.

I have no issue with stopping piracy. Stealing someone else's hard work is just wrong. I think they're being jerks about the used game market, though. Imagine if other industries did the same thing. IMO, this, "you only license the software not buy it," should be declared illegal.

The problem is people don't seem to care beyond giving it lip service. Look at what Adobe is doing with CS6, going subscription only. People are complaining, but they'll just go along.

Hopefully, Sony doesn't do the same thing and destroys the XBox in sales. The only way to get to these companies is to cost them money.

 

[007ELmO]

PS3 overtook XBOX 360 in world wide sales, wow. I was under the impression PS3 was a flop, compared to the 360. Is it because the PS3 is also many people's main blu ray player? I have way more 360 games.

 

[Greenlepricon]

PS3 overtook XBOX 360 in world wide sales, wow. I was under the impression PS3 was a flop, compared to the 360. Is it because the PS3 is also many people's main blu ray player? I have way more 360 games.

Partly. I personally threw my 360 out after the 4th RROD (no joke). It was a terrible experience for me, and I understand Microsoft fixed the problem later on but either way that's a terrible way to try and win me over. Especially since 3/4 of those times occurred before they admitted the problem and I had to pay for shipping.

My parents have a ps3 for the blu-ray, which matches your theory. Also from what I understand, the xbox still has problems in regions outside the US, and Sony is much more friendly with their hardware in these areas.

 

[Larnz]

Apparently the XBOX One games were running on Xbox one dev kits, it was only the game Lococycle's booth that was running on PCs as the game dev's hadnt finished porting their game yet. Tweet from the Lococycle dev confirms:

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/threads/xbox-one-games-did-not-run-on-high-end-pcs-at-e3.39428/

 

[sxr7171]

I have to admit then that the cloud feature seems pretty cool. But the 3-4 machines behind your machine in the cloud is a gross exaggeration of what one could expect in terms of performance boost. But whatever the boost is, it's welcome.

 

[galego]

Apparently the XBOX One games were running on Xbox one dev kits, it was only the game Lococycle's booth that was running on PCs as the game dev's hadnt finished porting their game yet. Tweet from the Lococycle dev confirms:

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/threads/xbox-one-games-did-not-run-on-high-end-pcs-at-e3.39428/

Some games run on Xbox One

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35148326&postcount=72

Some games run on PCs with hardware comparable to dev. kits

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35150221&postcount=109

Some games run on the dev kits as you report.

I have to admit then that the cloud feature seems pretty cool. But the 3-4 machines behind your machine in the cloud is a gross exaggeration of what one could expect in terms of performance boost. But whatever the boost is, it's welcome.

The 4x claimed by Microsoft is the theoretical maximum, the real boost will depend of lots of external factors including game developers and engines.

Also the 4x is the theoretical maximum for the first version of the cloud. I read in some part that Microsoft plans to upgrade the cloud in the future, therefore maybe a 4x boost will be feasible in a future with a powerful enough cloud. Who knows?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Or just buy the console instead trying to match it by upgrading your PC each two years.

Why would I buy fixed hardware that can't even match my current setup to play future games at graphical fidelity that would exceed my current setup?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Why would I buy fixed hardware that can't even match my current setup to play future games at graphical fidelity that would exceed my current setup?

Cause they make games you'll never see on the PC?

I have no issue with stopping piracy. Stealing someone else's hard work is just wrong. I think they're being jerks about the used game market, though. Imagine if other industries did the same thing. IMO, this, "you only license the software not buy it," should be declared illegal.

The problem is people don't seem to care beyond giving it lip service. Look at what Adobe is doing with CS6, going subscription only. People are complaining, but they'll just go along.

Hopefully, Sony doesn't do the same thing and destroys the XBox in sales. The only way to get to these companies is to cost them money.

In the case of Adobe, there are people finding alternatives that do most of the same thing but are free. There are also people who are just going use CS6 forever and never use the new software. Until there is something that the new software in CC can do that these two solutions can't, there are a few smaller studios and hobbyists who won't bother switching.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Cause they make games you'll never see on the PC?

What does that have to do with what was being discussed?

 

[Stuka87]

Thanks. I believed that 8.1 would look as 7

http://arstechnica.com/information-...he-start-button-boot-straight-to-the-desktop/

Yeah I had hoped for a real start menu to be in 8.1. But its not the case. If you watch the video in this article REALLY close, it shows the start "button" for literally 1 second.

http://arstechnica.com/information-...wn-off-in-video-and-upgrade-details-outlined/

 

[3DVagabond]

Cause they make games you'll never see on the PC?



In the case of Adobe, there are people finding alternatives that do most of the same thing but are free. There are also people who are just going use CS6 forever and never use the new software. Until there is something that the new software in CC can do that these two solutions can't, there are a few smaller studios and hobbyists who won't bother switching.

Innovation will slow down. There's no need to make it better to get more money from you. You'll need to continue to pay as long as you want to use it.

 

[Zodiark1593]

No one is claiming this is how it is supposed to work but you. If that is the only way you can see cloud computing as being useful then no wonder you've already written it off. You either lack vision or just feel like acting dumb for the sake of argument. You're not going to stream entire AAA games over the internet. The games will be processed locally. What the cloud is supposed to do is offload certain calculations where possible to increase the overall potential of the system. That's not going to turn an XBO into a quad titan system. However, it could yield some good benefits depending on how it is used, and it certainly could end up being very useful 4 or 5 years down the line as the tech and internet connections continue to improve.

Something odd this could spawn is quality settings on a console like we have on PC's. However, what will determine your quality settings is how good your internet connection is, not what hardware you have sitting next to your tv.

And please don't answer in kind. Keep your discourse civil and respectful.
-- stahlhart

Unless broadband gets some major updates, I don't see constantly streaming games via video as very viable.

What I can see is happening that you can have external servers (the cloud) process all the game logic and physics calculations, then the data is streamed to your console or PC for rendering locally as opposed to rendering on the external servers and sending a degraded video feed. You drastically reduce, if not outright prevent pirating and cheating, allow for maximum visuals free of compression artifacts and such, and you minimize bandwidth necessary on both the end user's side and the host's, the only other obstacle being latency.

 

[blastingcap]

The only thing left to completely burry XB1 is RROD2. The console is a fail out of the gate in nearly every way imaginable. I don't think it even matters that they were using GeForce or an AMD card. What stands out is that XB1 will continue to use a Windows OS environment and with 3 separate OSes. Whether or not PS4 will be more stable needs to be evaluated over time but things look more risky for XB1 based on the complexity of its OS. The OS alone eats up 3GB of RAM. Compounding that with all the other areas the XB1 trails PS4, MS should take 2-3 months to reevaluate the pricing and the entire XB1 strategy, revise the HDD to 1TB, drop the price $100 or even $150 from $499, add a solid launch game. In the eyes of hardcore gamers (no, not 14 year old COD players), the XB1 is dead in the water. Many people I spoke to said they wouldn't even buy XB1 if it was $300 given all the disadvantages it has against PS4.

Agree completely. FailboxOne.

 

[Cerb]

Unlike all you guys here who are experts on the XBO and intimately familiar with how all this stuff works with all the hands on experience you have with the hardware, I don't pretend to know how MS is going to implement the cloud computing or what it will be used for. However, I do know that there are a lot of things we wouldn't have today if people like you were in charge of technology development and simply wrote things off when the first iteration didn't work as well in practice as it did in the initial abstract.

So, you think there are other people, capable making the signals that make up your internet traffic go faster than light, and that can find a way to cost-effectively upgrade everyone to speeds exceeding 1GbE, during prime time?

The first generation didn't work for simple reasons, that aren't capable of being fixed, without spending far more than it would cost to beef up the client device. For example, streaming games might work if they contracted to have a mini-DC set up for every neighborhood. The cost of setting up and maintaining such a decentralized network would be outrageous, on top of the ISPs wanting their pound of flesh for riding their networks, and many US ISPs do not have the necessary last mile bandwidth to make it work.

Improvements in even low-end 'fat' clients, like consoles, consistently outpace improvements in networks. The big networks of 'fat' peers is just as much better today as it was years ago, when Digital was being a rebel, by pushing such a model for businesses. It would work inside your house, but that's as far as it will reasonably be able to, without moving to South Korea.

 

[sxr7171]

Agree completely. FailboxOne.

They are relying hard on that thing that watches you to add to the value proposition of the console. I have to admit that it's the best demonstrated TV control system I've ever seen. Apple TV is nowhere to be found but it looks like MS has beaten them to that new TV UI.

If it really works well that might work out for them. If it doesn't they will have to drop their price pretty rapidly to compete.

 

[3DVagabond]

What a huge fail for Microsoft, their game partners and especially AMD. Nvidia the way it's meant to be played was taken literally by MS.

Care to elaborate?

1, Why is it a huge fail for Intel?
2, Why is it a huge fail for the gaming partners?
3, Why is it especially a huge fail for AMD?

Edit: ...and please include sources where applicable.