Xbox One elite controller

[cmdrdredd]

I lost the use of my left arm in a motorcycle accident years ago. I'm super excited about this thing. That said, I'm not paying $150 for a controller that should cost $75-90.

Those with the controller... could you hold it with one hand and not accidentally hit the new bottom buttons?

You can remove the bottom buttons if you wanted. That removes one of the main benefits though IMO.

 

[jdoggg12]

i always find it funny when people think they know what things "should" cost.

Here's my logic, based on logistic and procurement work I do in a distribution and manufacturing-centric company. Once templated, these things are very easy to manufacture, especially considering that the design is largely the same as an existing product.

We do the same thing in my industry - "premium" models are priced just like that, at a ridiculous premium. Their construction costs are negligibly higher than standard units, however, the whole basis for premium items is to fatten the margin.

Looking at the current XBone controller, at a roughly $50-60 street price, there's no way that it costs 3x as much to manufacture the $150 elite. At most, it might be 2x as costly to make, especially as economies of scale kicks in... maybe a $50 landed cost/unit. So the distribution channel is probably at 30-60 points (that's fairly high) which leaves the cost to the retailer at probably $65-80. They're probably making up to 100 points on the $150 sale!

For perspective, a carbon fiber item we distribute retails for $500. Carbon fiber products demand a premium, even if they offer little actual benefit. Our cost on that $500 item, from the manufacturer is around $150-250, let's call it $200. We distribute to the retailer level at typically 25-40 points. At 40 points for us that's still a huge margin for the retailer. Add in the fact that we, like MS, enforce a MAP policy, the items keep drawing in huge margins for everyone involved, even as production costs drop.

So, yes, based on the already inflated price of the regular controller, this seems very high.

Let's be real though. A big chunk of the price is the ability to say, "I have this expensive piece of hardware- pretty sweet, huh?"

You can remove the bottom buttons if you wanted. That removes one of the main benefits though IMO.

Haha, those are one of the biggest reasons I'd want it. I just wanna know if it'd be possible to hold the controller and use them with the same hand. 🙂

 

[Skel]

The paddles do not hit if you set it down on a flat surface. I checked that myself. I don't know what people are talking about when they say the paddle buttons get activated, there is plenty of room between a table and the controller.

I've also never once had an issue with the paddles hitting anything when I set it down. The only time they've gone off without me wanting them to was when I shifted my grip, and that was only because I was stretching at the same time. It's really hard to make them go off unintentionally.

 

[cmdrdredd]

i always find it funny when people think they know what things "should" cost.

(and i do agree that i'd never pay $150 for it, but then again i haven't played fps in years. and again, this coming from someone who gladly shelled out $200 for an arcade stick at x1 launch)

It's not that much more than SCUF controllers which are just modded standard controllers. Also people spend $150 on special keyboards and mice for their gaming on PC and nobody bats an eye.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Here's my logic, based on logistic and procurement work I do in a distribution and manufacturing-centric company. Once templated, these things are very easy to manufacture, especially considering that the design is largely the same as an existing product.

We do the same thing in my industry - "premium" models are priced just like that, at a ridiculous premium. Their construction costs are negligibly higher than standard units, however, the whole basis for premium items is to fatten the margin.

Looking at the current XBone controller, at a roughly $50-60 street price, there's no way that it costs 3x as much to manufacture the $150 elite. At most, it might be 2x as costly to make, especially as economies of scale kicks in... maybe a $50 landed cost/unit. So the distribution channel is probably at 30-60 points (that's fairly high) which leaves the cost to the retailer at probably $65-80. They're probably making up to 100 points on the $150 sale!

For perspective, a carbon fiber item we distribute retails for $500. Carbon fiber products demand a premium, even if they offer little actual benefit. Our cost on that $500 item, from the manufacturer is around $150-250, let's call it $200. We distribute to the retailer level at typically 25-40 points. At 40 points for us that's still a huge margin for the retailer. Add in the fact that we, like MS, enforce a MAP policy, the items keep drawing in huge margins for everyone involved, even as production costs drop.

So, yes, based on the already inflated price of the regular controller, this seems very high.

Let's be real though. A big chunk of the price is the ability to say, "I have this expensive piece of hardware- pretty sweet, huh?"



Haha, those are one of the biggest reasons I'd want it. I just wanna know if it'd be possible to hold the controller and use them with the same hand. 🙂

Honestly I think it is more expensive to make than you might believe at first glance. It has different electronics to save your settings to memory, plastic is replaced with metal etc. I bet the internals are pretty different in many ways but that's just based on my usage and knowing what it can do.

As for using it with one hand I can't say, it may be difficult to hit the paddles while trying to move the analog sticks.

 

[purbeast0]

what it costs them to make is pretty much irrelevant when we have no clue what the r&d costs are and how they are trying to make those back.

 

[Lil Frier]

Agreed, MS said it spent, what, $100 million on R&D for the One's stock controller? Then they had to make another version with new bumpers and the 3.5mm jack. They've gotten make sure they cover materials, R&D, and be a profitable company in the first place.

$150 is too much for me as well, but that's me. I don't think the price is especially egregious, given the competition and alternatives.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I want one of these. Still haven't convinced myself that it's worth the price though. I'm hoping someplace like gamestop or the like will have a floor model out that I can try. Otherwise I'll have to make the decision based on hearsay and reviews.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I lost the use of my left arm in a motorcycle accident years ago. I'm super excited about this thing. That said, I'm not paying $150 for a controller that should cost $75-90.

Those with the controller... could you hold it with one hand and not accidentally hit the new bottom buttons?

Why? How were you able to determine what it should cost?

 

[Kenmitch]

I want one of these. Still haven't convinced myself that it's worth the price though. I'm hoping someplace like gamestop or the like will have a floor model out that I can try. Otherwise I'll have to make the decision based on hearsay and reviews.

None on display or available for purchase at BestBuy or the 2 Gamestop stores I checked at. Considering returning my unopened Tomb Raider bundle to BestBuy and just picking up the Elite console bundle deal tomorrow at Gamestop. My son said he will buy the controller off me if I don't like it....Hmm.

 

[cmdrdredd]

None on display or available for purchase at BestBuy or the 2 Gamestop stores I checked at. Considering returning my unopened Tomb Raider bundle to BestBuy and just picking up the Elite console bundle deal tomorrow at Gamestop. My son said he will buy the controller off me if I don't like it....Hmm.

Yeah that's not bad. If you don't like it, sell it to him and then go buy a game and another controller and still come out ahead. I think you'll like the controller quite a bit though. I like using it in Halo 5 and never touching A,B,X,Y. I mapped interact/reload, switch weapons, boost, and jump to the paddles so I never have to release the right stick for aiming. They are mapped by default to ABXY but I changed which was which. I also love the trigger locks for shooters. No longer have the long arc, it's really short and I made them more sensitive too. I also adjusted the sensitivity on the analog sticks just a bit. Feels smoother for me now, not as much delay.

 

[Skel]

cmdrdredd: You mentioned that you got the "elite" console.. is that the one with the hybrid drive? If so, do you notice any speed bumps over the standard consoles at all? MS is saying it's 20% faster loading..

 

[Lil Frier]

It should absolutely be faster. SSHDs use 7200 RPM drives as their base, from everything I've seen. That alone will beat the stock 5400 RPM drives (wonder i newer consoles upped it to 7200 RPM, but I doubt it). The flash part probably just makes its presence known with the OS/UI, and given how quick it is in most tasks already (speaking more for the new UI), it probably won't mean much.

The real question, in my book, is if it's faster at loading games than a USB 3.0 external.

 

[cmdrdredd]

cmdrdredd: You mentioned that you got the "elite" console.. is that the one with the hybrid drive? If so, do you notice any speed bumps over the standard consoles at all? MS is saying it's 20% faster loading..

I can tell it's a little faster loading certain things I use a lot, but I never really measured game load times so I can't give numbers. I can only say it feels faster, whether it's placebo or not is another matter.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It should absolutely be faster. SSHDs use 7200 RPM drives as their base, from everything I've seen. That alone will beat the stock 5400 RPM drives (wonder i newer consoles upped it to 7200 RPM, but I doubt it). The flash part probably just makes its presence known with the OS/UI, and given how quick it is in most tasks already (speaking more for the new UI), it probably won't mean much.

The real question, in my book, is if it's faster at loading games than a USB 3.0 external.

Actually most 2.5" SSHD I've seen are 5400RPM but they perform faster than a standard 7200 RPM drive. When I was buying one for my PS4 I was trying to find a 7200RPM SSHD like you can buy for desktops but didn't have any luck.

 

[HeXen]

But did your gaming immediately and noticeably improve?

 

[cmdrdredd]

But did your gaming immediately and noticeably improve?

With the controller? Yes because there is little to no delay in movement and aiming any longer when I turned up the sensitivity. The response is faster allowing me to move more rapidly and go from target to target more quickly. I was skeptical but it really does work.

 

[Kenmitch]

Yeah that's not bad. If you don't like it, sell it to him and then go buy a game and another controller and still come out ahead. I think you'll like the controller quite a bit though. I like using it in Halo 5 and never touching A,B,X,Y. I mapped interact/reload, switch weapons, boost, and jump to the paddles so I never have to release the right stick for aiming. They are mapped by default to ABXY but I changed which was which. I also love the trigger locks for shooters. No longer have the long arc, it's really short and I made them more sensitive too. I also adjusted the sensitivity on the analog sticks just a bit. Feels smoother for me now, not as much delay.

Bundle includes a free 2nd controller and game of choice.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Bundle includes a free 2nd controller and game of choice.

Like I said, if you don't like the elite controller and sell it you can get another game and a regular controller and still come out ahead.

 

[Lil Frier]

Actually most 2.5" SSHD I've seen are 5400RPM but they perform faster than a standard 7200 RPM drive. When I was buying one for my PS4 I was trying to find a 7200RPM SSHD like you can buy for desktops but didn't have any luck.

Oh, I thought the Xbox One used a 3.5" drive. Silly me.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Oh, I thought the Xbox One used a 3.5" drive. Silly me.

Does it? I figured it was the same as the PS4. Have to check a tear down.

edit: The default HDD is a Samsung Momentus(also listed at retail as spinpoint with same model number) 2.5" 5400RPM 9.5mm drive.

 

[Lil Frier]

Well, what a turd. Still, if you have one, I'd request/recommend comparing external HDD speeds/load times to the SSHD. If the SSHD still can't beat the external when switching games around, that'd put a damper on the greatness of the drive, IMO.

Really, if the bundle came with a game, I'd probably get it. Instead, the Halo 5 console's my goal, since its digital copy means 2 usable copies, which wins it big in my book. That, and Best Buy's superior deals to GameStop (GC + game + $30 Locke controller vs. basic controller + game)

 

[cmdrdredd]

Well, what a turd. Still, if you have one, I'd request/recommend comparing external HDD speeds/load times to the SSHD. If the SSHD still can't beat the external when switching games around, that'd put a damper on the greatness of the drive, IMO.

Really, if the bundle came with a game, I'd probably get it. Instead, the Halo 5 console's my goal, since its digital copy means 2 usable copies, which wins it big in my book. That, and Best Buy's superior deals to GameStop (GC + game + $30 Locke controller vs. basic controller + game)

I do have an external drive attached but it is not a 7200RPM drive, it's a 5400RPM drive. I'll have to pull a drive out of one of my computers and use that in the drive dock. I'll test that now actually. I'll transfer a copy of a game and report how long it takes to start up and how long to get into the game from the menu. Should give a rough idea.

edit: I tested Killer Instinct on both the internal and external drive. I recorded how long it took to get to the press menu screen(initial loading) and how long it took to get in the match once you select a character on survival.

External
initial loading - 35.8 seconds
match start - 24.25 seconds

internal
initial loading - 34.6 seconds
match start - 18.5 seconds

Appears to be some difference once the game is loaded and you're entering the match which always seemed to be the longest wait time.

 

[Lil Frier]

That's nice, I'd be miffed if I were someone who got this after thinking it'd be a big improvement and the internal was STILL slower than a USB 3.0 drive. I'm curious as to how much the OS would need in the flash portion. It'd be cool if this included a utility to force a specific program/game onto that. For example, the boot time on the console is already really good. It'd be cool if you could force Halo 5 onto it, so that (which would be getting most of the runtime on the console for me) was getting the flash storage speed boost.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm not entirely sure how these drives work and how it's determined what is loaded to the flash memory. Maybe once the game is loaded it stores some of it in the flash memory which would account for the faster load times once the game is started up.