Xbox One and Forza's Shameless Micro transactions

[KentState]

There is a simple solution. Buy the game if you want the game, don't if you don't. Don't buy the DLC if you don't want it.

How hard is that? It's not as if this is the only game that has DLC content. It is expected that nearly every game has DLC.

You're kidding yourself if you think it's going to change.

This is a change from how DLC or expansion backs were on the PC and then Xbox360 and PS3. In the past, it was adding 8-16 hours on top of a complete stand-alone game. This is no different than making Forza 5 the next Candy Crush where you have a stripped down game unless you buy the DLC. You are getting much less for your $60 purchase and the game is now built around micro-transactions.

 

[SAWYER]

 

[cmdrdredd]

This is a change from how DLC or expansion backs were on the PC and then Xbox360 and PS3. In the past, it was adding 8-16 hours on top of a complete stand-alone game. This is no different than making Forza 5 the next Candy Crush where you have a stripped down game unless you buy the DLC. You are getting much less for your $60 purchase and the game is now built around micro-transactions.

As I said before it is NOT stripped down. It's what they could have in the final game for Launch. The rest of the stuff they were working on MS is asking to be paid content. NOT the developers. If the packs were done, they would be in the initial release.

 

[EightySix Four]

This is a change from how DLC or expansion backs were on the PC and then Xbox360 and PS3. In the past, it was adding 8-16 hours on top of a complete stand-alone game. This is no different than making Forza 5 the next Candy Crush where you have a stripped down game unless you buy the DLC. You are getting much less for your $60 purchase and the game is now built around micro-transactions.

This is an exaggeration. I have a complete game with 200 cars and 12 tracks and zero need yo make any sort of transaction to experience the full game. Is there less content then previous Forza games? Sure. Is the game enough of an improvement in overall mechanics for me to get past that? Definitely. Will I be buying DLC? Probably not. Will I buy tokens? Hell no I will race career like every other racing game I have ever played and buy the cars I want.

 

[cmdrdredd]

This is an exaggeration. I have a complete game with 200 cars and 12 tracks and zero need yo make any sort of transaction to experience the full game. Is there less content then previous Forza games? Sure. Is the game enough of an improvement in overall mechanics for me to get past that? Definitely. Will I be buying DLC? Probably not. Will I buy tokens? Hell no I will race career like every other racing game I have ever played and buy the cars I want.

Right and looking at the past games they had 1.5-2 years to work on it. Forza 5 was put together in a year or less. It wasn't Turn 10's choice. Microsoft pays the bills so they are answerable to them in the end. If Microsoft demands a Launch game they don't want to disappoint. I guarantee you that the next Forza title has more content because they will have more time to work on it.

 

[Anteaus]

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here. We all know how GT5 shipped with over 1,000 cars, yet only shipped with around 200 premium cars. For the sake of argument, would you rather it had shipped the game with only the 200 premium cars and then sold the rest as premium level addons or just give you all the cars even if it meant reducing the quality of the overall product?

As for Forza 5, I don't think have a reduced car selection is a big deal. In fact, I'd rather have 100 top notch cars if that means giving up a bunch of silly cars I wouldn't have driven anyway. There are a bunch of cars included that are more for vanity and aren't given serious attention on the track. For most racing games there are usually only about 15-20 cars that I drive often. The rest either aren't prefereable or I drive them only to get past themed races. Then again, I put over 50 hours into F1 2012 and that's basically multiple versions of the same car so perhaps I'm just easier to make happy.

That said, the track omissions are more problematic, if only to prevent the game from growing stale. They do tend to retask portions of different tracks to help shake things up, but it's still the same track.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself this. Is what comes in the box enough to satisfy core gameplay and allow the user to experience all aspects of the game without compromising the experience? If the answer is yes, then it becomes less about the total number of cars or tracks in the game and more about which cars and tracks are in the game.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The track selection is definitely the biggest issue and they haven't even said if they will release more later or what.

 

[purbeast0]

here is a thought...

do some research before you buy a $60 game. if it doesn't have enough content for you, don't buy it.

really simple concept!

 

[Anteaus]

here is a thought...

do some research before you buy a $60 game. if it doesn't have enough content for you, don't buy it.

really simple concept!

Well, we are talking about many of the same people who waited in line for hours to buy a new console on Day 1 in spite of potential hardware problems (both PS4 and XB1). Research wouldn't have prevented them from buying Forza 5, especially when its one of the very few AAA release titles. Sometimes you have to gamble a little to satisfy your urges. That said, I agree with you.

 

[cmdrdredd]

We knew the car selection and DLC situation at least a week ahead. It should have easy to decide.

 

[smackababy]

So, I've put in quite a few hours into Forza 5 and the increased money is BS. I'm sorry, after a one or two series you can't afford a Bugatti. Get over it. That is the case in every racing game since racing games existed.

200 cars? Yeah, you won't own them all even with such a "small" number. Get over it. GT6 has 1200? Quick, let me decided which of the 50 1997-2002 Skylines to buy...

The only valid complaint I can see about content is the limited number of tracks, but the ones in game are gorgeous.

This was a launch game, you can't expect the amount of content to be as much as a game that had a full 2 years of development.

The Kotaku article is pure BS trying to drum up hits. Yes, there are car tokens and yes, you can buy cars with them. They exist purely for the crowd willing to spend real money for instant gratification.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Do some of you not understand how completely senseless you sound by telling people that if they don't like something then don't play/watch it? How can you even know that unless you do? A demo even wouldn't tell you how limited the content was or other aspects so that wouldn't even help in this case.

Actually I take back what I said, in this instance, you should know that its not worth it, because of how the developer is blatantly going out of their way to straight up tell people that its not worth it and that they intentionally did that just so they could push a game out the door. But hey pony up some more money and it will be worth it then!

FWIW, because I had a feeling something like this was likely, I didn't buy either new consoles (and obviously not the games). And so my research actually is what I'm discussing. But apparently that rubs some of you the wrong way. How dare anyone have opinions and *gasp* complain about something?!?

There is a simple solution. Buy the game if you want the game, don't if you don't. Don't buy the DLC if you don't want it.

How hard is that? It's not as if this is the only game that has DLC content. It is expected that nearly every game has DLC.

You're kidding yourself if you think it's going to change.

That's kinda the thing, how are we supposed to know this without buying the game first? I didn't notice a lot of the reviews talking about the game economy and talking about how skewed it is to trying to force people to pay to progress. Some mentioned that the number of cars and tracks is a bit slim. Most gushed about the graphics and then said that the physics engine was improved but basically did so in a way that just said "the developers said they've further improved this". Basically they cut tons of content, stripped and skewed the progression system, but hey its looks so nice and shiny!

Yeah, that's also kinda the point, stuff like this is getting worse, and unless there's outcry over it (hey, wait, wasn't there exactly something like this before, where Microsoft did something really stupid and people complained and then they...changed it?) it won't change.

As I said before it is NOT stripped down. It's what they could have in the final game for Launch. The rest of the stuff they were working on MS is asking to be paid content. NOT the developers. If the packs were done, they would be in the initial release.

That doesn't make it any better. And they absolutely did strip it down. The developer themselves straight up say this, hell its their actual defense even. They seem to think that telling people that "yeah we rushed the game to make the launch" is somehow ok. Its like EA and Blizzard trying to explain why Sim City and Diablo 3 were so screwed up. It just tells us that they knew it was limited and were ok with pushing a subpar product out and that they really don't care since you've already put down your money. Oh but hey, buy this extra stuff that'll help make up for their shortcomings!

They're going out of their way to fess up to it and then rubbing people's faces in it.

The track selection is definitely the biggest issue and they haven't even said if they will release more later or what.

They've basically said they will but I'm going to guess they expect people to pay for it just like they do the car packs.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Do some of you not understand how completely senseless you sound by telling people that if they don't like something then don't play/watch it? How can you even know that unless you do? A demo even wouldn't tell you how limited the content was or other aspects so that wouldn't even help in this case.

Actually I take back what I said, in this instance, you should know that its not worth it, because of how the developer is blatantly going out of their way to straight up tell people that its not worth it and that they intentionally did that just so they could push a game out the door. But hey pony up some more money and it will be worth it then!

FWIW, because I had a feeling something like this was likely, I didn't buy either new consoles (and obviously not the games). And so my research actually is what I'm discussing. But apparently that rubs some of you the wrong way. How dare anyone have opinions and *gasp* complain about something?!?



That's kinda the thing, how are we supposed to know this without buying the game first? I didn't notice a lot of the reviews talking about the game economy and talking about how skewed it is to trying to force people to pay to progress. Some mentioned that the number of cars and tracks is a bit slim. Most gushed about the graphics and then said that the physics engine was improved but basically did so in a way that just said "the developers said they've further improved this". Basically they cut tons of content, stripped and skewed the progression system, but hey its looks so nice and shiny!

Yeah, that's also kinda the point, stuff like this is getting worse, and unless there's outcry over it (hey, wait, wasn't there exactly something like this before, where Microsoft did something really stupid and people complained and then they...changed it?) it won't change.



That doesn't make it any better. And they absolutely did strip it down. The developer themselves straight up say this, hell its their actual defense even. They seem to think that telling people that "yeah we rushed the game to make the launch" is somehow ok. Its like EA and Blizzard trying to explain why Sim City and Diablo 3 were so screwed up. It just tells us that they knew it was limited and were ok with pushing a subpar product out and that they really don't care since you've already put down your money. Oh but hey, buy this extra stuff that'll help make up for their shortcomings!

They're going out of their way to fess up to it and then rubbing people's faces in it.



They've basically said they will but I'm going to guess they expect people to pay for it just like they do the car packs.

So if you didn't buy the console and by not having it, you don't own the game...um what are you really complaining about? Sheesh. I'd pay for some new track packs sure. New cars? Meh...I think 200 is fine and I'll really only use one or two per series.

Do you work for someone? I assume yes...when they give you a deadline and expect whatever you have finished to be ready to go it isn't up to you to say "hey but we want to put this stuff in too but we need time". That's not how it works. They did whatever they could in the limited time and released a finished product. You are free to purchase it as I did or simply skip it which is ok too. I don't see many people who have the game and are enjoying it complaining much about the DLC and buying tokens. Especially not when there is no requirement for either. The only legit complaint is tracks but they haven't even said they are doing DLC tracks. We may be stuck with the 14 or so until the next game for all I know. Other mediums take advantage of people even more IMO, especially the movies. I personally will get my $60 and more out of Forza. I can't say the same about some of the 2.5 hour pieces of garbage that they expect us to pay $12 to see.

 

[Dumac]

I really dislike this trend in the industry. People defend it by saying 'if you don't like the microtransactions, don't buy them', but what they are missing is that the game is designed fromt he ground up to incentivize microtransactions. This is hugely unenjoyable for me as a player.

Its Plants vs. Zombies all over again.

 

[smackababy]

Except, the game is designed like EVERY OTHER RACING GAME IN HISTORY. You start with limited money and a crappy car. You grind out wins to get more money to buy better cars. The difference is rather than just forcing players to win 50 races to get a Ferrari, they can just pay $10 or whatever and get the car instantly. The game is, at it's core, a racing game. The "microtransactions" bitched about by Kotaku exist in previous Forzas and do nothing but make it easy for people who choose to take the expensive "cheap" way out of getting those expensive cars do that. It doesn't impact ANYONE who doesn't purchase that.

The marketplace is "coming soon", so that address the sale of car designs. It wasn't ready at launch, apparently.

 

[Doppel]

Except, the game is designed like EVERY OTHER RACING GAME IN HISTORY. You start with limited money and a crappy car. You grind out wins to get more money to buy better cars. The difference is rather than just forcing players to win 50 races to get a Ferrari, they can just pay $10 or whatever and get the car instantly. The game is, at it's core, a racing game. The "microtransactions" bitched about by Kotaku exist in previous Forzas and do nothing but make it easy for people who choose to take the expensive "cheap" way out of getting those expensive cars do that. It doesn't impact ANYONE who doesn't purchase that.

The marketplace is "coming soon", so that address the sale of car designs. It wasn't ready at launch, apparently.

Do you truly believe that the developer has no motivation at all to make "grinding" out new cars harder now than in the past, given that this would incentivize people to spend real money to speed it up? A properly developed video game may have "grinding", but it's never a grind. Winning races, slaying trolls, whatever should all be at the correct level so that it's not like a chore. Thus, there should be no compelling desire by the gamer to want to pay real money to speed this up.

I have never played Diablo III other than the demo for about 20 minutes. It seemed entirely too easy. I looked online and people said the same. The first play through is easy. Somebody complained in some forum and the response was shock that they were too lazy to play through once. Lazy? I already have a job. Playing an entire game through once just to get to the point it's challenging? Now that is a damn grind, and not the good kind.

A game can be balanced to work properly without money, or with. Not both at the same time.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Let's go back to the 80's....

If you wanted to unlock a car easy would you rather....

UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A START


Or..pay $2

I agree with the above statement which is what my point all along was. Grinding is one thing...offering an "easy out" by charging money is just greedy when you know they could just put a code in that allows the same thing (if the item is already in the game). Now..making the grind even harder so that it encourages todays ADD gotta have them all and now crowd to drop cash on it rather than spend all that time playing is craziness and taking advantage of your customers.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Do you truly believe that the developer has no motivation at all to make "grinding" out new cars harder now than in the past, given that this would incentivize people to spend real money to speed it up? A properly developed video game may have "grinding", but it's never a grind. Winning races, slaying trolls, whatever should all be at the correct level so that it's not like a chore. Thus, there should be no compelling desire by the gamer to want to pay real money to speed this up.

I have never played Diablo III other than the demo for about 20 minutes. It seemed entirely too easy. I looked online and people said the same. The first play through is easy. Somebody complained in some forum and the response was shock that they were too lazy to play through once. Lazy? I already have a job. Playing an entire game through once just to get to the point it's challenging? Now that is a damn grind, and not the good kind.

A game can be balanced to work properly without money, or with. Not both at the same time.

There is zero desire to pay real money for tokens here. So yeah...

The game is friggen hard from the word go as long as you dont cheat and turn on all the assists.

 

[smackababy]

Now..making the grind even harder so that it encourages todays ADD gotta have them all and now crowd to drop cash on it rather than spend all that time playing is craziness and taking advantage of your customers.

Which Forza doesn't do. The only thing they made "harder" was they removed the extremely cheap upgrades that were far too easy to get in Forza 4. It made upgrades completely trivial.

This article is nothing but FUD trying to drum up hits.

 

[Wingznut]

This article is nothing but FUD trying to drum up hits.

Agreed! You don't HAVE TO spend money in this game. You can, if you want to. Personally, I love this game, and I'll never buy tokens.

The amount of cars is fine. The only reason to have 1200 cars, is to have 1200 cars. Like someone else said, having 50 versions of essentially the same car doesn't add any enjoyment whatsoever.

Less tracks is definitely disappointing. Even still, I am having a blast with this game!

 

[purbeast0]

I really dislike this trend in the industry. People defend it by saying 'if you don't like the microtransactions, don't buy them', but what they are missing is that the game is designed fromt he ground up to incentivize microtransactions. This is hugely unenjoyable for me as a player.

Its Plants vs. Zombies all over again.

so don't buy the game period. the whole ps3/360 gen i probably spent like $50 on dlc the entire generation and $15 or $10 was the burnout paradise whole new island, and another $15 was the upgrade to arcade edition for super street fighter iv.

there hasn't been 1 game the past gen that "tricked" me into buying it and not knowing that it was "built around" microtransactions. i really don't even know of 1 game that i play that the concept of being built around microtransactions would be relevant to.

a game like killer instinct, i KNOW that i am getting 8 characters for $20 and 2 of them aren't out now and there isn't a story mode yet either, and there will be 8 more characters in season 2, etc. there are no surprises, nothing is hidden or anything, they are all upfront about it.

if you don't like the trend, simply don't support it.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Let's go back to the 80's....

If you wanted to unlock a car easy would you rather....

UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A START


Or..pay $2

I agree with the above statement which is what my point all along was. Grinding is one thing...offering an "easy out" by charging money is just greedy when you know they could just put a code in that allows the same thing (if the item is already in the game). Now..making the grind even harder so that it encourages todays ADD gotta have them all and now crowd to drop cash on it rather than spend all that time playing is craziness and taking advantage of your customers.

Not sure how many people here actually enjoyed the days of unlock codes in console games. But yes, what used to be free if you wanted to 'cheat' now costs cash. I know which of the two I prefer.

 

[zerocool84]

If you don't have any issues that the most famous track in the world isn't in the game, then I just don't know what to say.

 

[Arkaign]

If you don't have any issues that the most famous track in the world isn't in the game, then I just don't know what to say.

This, along with the $50 'season pass' BS, is enough to put the last nail in the coffin for my interest in Forza.

This looks infinitely better anyway, and if they don't nickel and dime you to death, this will be where I go :

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

 

[Topweasel]

The amount of the time it takes to develop the track from scratch probably was the limiting factor. People act like they could snap their fingers and make a new game filled to the brim. They rebuilt Forza from the ground up 200 cars and 14 tracks is a great platform for 5, and for me enough to enjoy this fantastic release. Glad they are willing to shake it up instead of using models, sounds, and handling information captured over 10 years ago.