True. but should they be punished for not knowing the historical context of a racially sensitive situation?
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
Then what are you arguing? Im pretty sure the point here is that these women are a prime example of how many black people today seem to think they can sue for every little thing. It started with the stupid people in general who sued McDonalds for making them fat. Then the NAACP started causing problems everywhere, along with jessie jackson. So its not completely black organizations' fault that many people are sue happy. But it is their fault that many black people seem to think they can sue people over anything and everything. These black women are doing it. Jessie Jackson is doing it with the Detroit Lions, and Im sure there are MANY other cases in which it is happening.
I guess everyone is agreeing (sp? looks wierd...) that the flight attendant is not at fault. So Im assuming now that we are arguing about whether or not some blacks seem to think that they have been the victim of racism.
One more thing. More of a question really. I know discrimination is a crime. Is racism? Do we not have the right (not saying I think like this) to think whatever we want about other races, as long as we don't discriminate against them? Im not sure on the laws on this, possibly a grey area. OH, one more thing
How come Ice cube and many other black rappers can rap about how they have problems with the redneck white cracker, but if a white person were to rap or sing about how they dislike the black n___ there would be major lawsuits? To quote Carlos Mencia (if you must stereotype, he's "Mexican")
That's how I feel. Either both sides STFU with the cries of "racist!" or we're both allowed to do it.
Note that I've censored the "offensive" words to avoid a ban, not because of personal opinion.
- M4H
That's how I feel. Either both sides STFU with the cries of "racist!" or we're both allowed to do it.
Note that I've censored the "offensive" words to avoid a ban, not because of personal opinion.
- M4H
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Then what are you arguing? Im pretty sure the point here is that these women are a prime example of how many black people today seem to think they can sue for every little thing. It started with the stupid people in general who sued McDonalds for making them fat. Then the NAACP started causing problems everywhere, along with jessie jackson. So its not completely black organizations' fault that many people are sue happy. But it is their fault that many black people seem to think they can sue people over anything and everything. These black women are doing it. Jessie Jackson is doing it with the Detroit Lions, and Im sure there are MANY other cases in which it is happening.
I guess everyone is agreeing (sp? looks wierd...) that the flight attendant is not at fault. So Im assuming now that we are arguing about whether or not some blacks seem to think that they have been the victim of racism.
One more thing. More of a question really. I know discrimination is a crime. Is racism? Do we not have the right (not saying I think like this) to think whatever we want about other races, as long as we don't discriminate against them? Im not sure on the laws on this, possibly a grey area. OH, one more thing
Where did you get the point that Black people think they can sue for every little thing? Too much litigation is not a Black problem, it is an American problem. Please show me evidence that Black people sue more than other racial groups. You seem to base this on 2 examples, which you only learned about from this forum. You keep talking about the NAACP causing problems, but I have yet to see you back this up. I haven't responded to any NAACP barbs because you have yet to state a specific problem you have with them.
If you look here, you'll see that discrimination lawsuits are not one of the major percentages of lawsuits. Race discrimation are only a percentage of those. Black plaintiffs are only a percentage of those.
My point is also exactly what I stated in my first post. There are legitimate complaints that these women have, and I considered and explained the situation from their point of view which no one else had tried to do previously with the knee jerk responses about them being morons and deserving to die and other nonsense. Their lawsuit is as valid as any other, and if they don't prove their case, they'll lose. No big deal.
No, it is not illegal to be racist. What you think is your own business, and no one can legislate that. It's not a gray area. I will personally defend anyone's right to be racist. You just don't have the right to act on your racism in a way that negatively affects others.
For a response about the use of N-- and "comparable" terms for Whites, see my post here.
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
Originally posted by: yowolabi
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Then what are you arguing? Im pretty sure the point here is that these women are a prime example of how many black people today seem to think they can sue for every little thing. It started with the stupid people in general who sued McDonalds for making them fat. Then the NAACP started causing problems everywhere, along with jessie jackson. So its not completely black organizations' fault that many people are sue happy. But it is their fault that many black people seem to think they can sue people over anything and everything. These black women are doing it. Jessie Jackson is doing it with the Detroit Lions, and Im sure there are MANY other cases in which it is happening.
I guess everyone is agreeing (sp? looks wierd...) that the flight attendant is not at fault. So Im assuming now that we are arguing about whether or not some blacks seem to think that they have been the victim of racism.
One more thing. More of a question really. I know discrimination is a crime. Is racism? Do we not have the right (not saying I think like this) to think whatever we want about other races, as long as we don't discriminate against them? Im not sure on the laws on this, possibly a grey area. OH, one more thing
Where did you get the point that Black people think they can sue for every little thing? Too much litigation is not a Black problem, it is an American problem. Please show me evidence that Black people sue more than other racial groups. You seem to base this on 2 examples, which you only learned about from this forum. You keep talking about the NAACP causing problems, but I have yet to see you back this up. I haven't responded to any NAACP barbs because you have yet to state a specific problem you have with them.
If you look here, you'll see that discrimination lawsuits are not one of the major percentages of lawsuits. Race discrimation are only a percentage of those. Black plaintiffs are only a percentage of those.
My point is also exactly what I stated in my first post. There are legitimate complaints that these women have, and I considered and explained the situation from their point of view which no one else had tried to do previously with the knee jerk responses about them being morons and deserving to die and other nonsense. Their lawsuit is as valid as any other, and if they don't prove their case, they'll lose. No big deal.
No, it is not illegal to be racist. What you think is your own business, and no one can legislate that. It's not a gray area. I will personally defend anyone's right to be racist. You just don't have the right to act on your racism in a way that negatively affects others.
For a response about the use of N-- and "comparable" terms for Whites, see my post here.
These women were not truly offended by being told to sit down in a humorous way. These women have no right to sue, and yes it is a big deal. They wastes tax dollars, MY dollars. Thats reason enough to eliminate stupid lawsuits.
We have determined that discrimination is the law that she is suing right? The airlines discriminated against her? Is that what these women are suing for? I don't understand how they were discriminated against in anyway? Because they were told to sit down? Thats not discrimination.
My point was not that black people sue more then other racial groups, but that black people sue about racial issues more. They sue over ridiculous things, such as this. Now Im sure there are more examples of blacks suing over absurd things, but I only named 2 because we all know about those. Someone in this thread also posted another situation. Im sure it happens alot, if you wish I can go look for some specific examples.
The link you gave about your post on black people being racist in songs etc.. did not work. For me atleast, not sure why. Could you please copy and paste it here? I'm interested in what you have to say about that.
Saying that you know what these women were really feeling is wrong. The only evidence we have is what they say. They say they were offended, then they were. There is a person who decides if the lawsuit is frivolous called a judge. In this case, he decided part of it had merit, and part of it didn't. I prefer a judge making that decision over you.
More women file sex discrimination lawsuits. It's kind of obvious why. Of course minorities file more race discrimination lawsuits. I could pull plenty of absurd cases of Whites filing absurd lawsuits also. I say again, race is not an issue when it comes to lawsuits. If you're so concerned about taxpayer's money, you'd be ranting about medical malpractice which the link in my previous post showed is 25% of all lawsuits instead of race-discrimination lawsuits which isn't big enough to even get it's own category.
That's from the link.
At no point in your convoluded excuse for an argument did you make any rational statements. The only thing I can say to you is that political correctness breeds social gaps. By feeling compelled not to offend anyone you are actual establishing a precedent that there are discernable differences among different races/genders/religions etc. The modern use of the rhyme is not racist, and therefore this version of the rhyme cannot be construed as being racist. Beyond those statements I can't make enough sense out of your arguments to actually refute them.
Yowolabi, despite the rhymes origins (a number of children's nursery rhymes came from slave songs. Are you against those, too?) this is an idiotic lawsuit. Reading your posts I understand you dislike the term "stupid", but I would say that your defense of these two women falls into that category. Have you ever flown Southwest? One of the chief attractions is their use of humor. Pilots and flight attendants alike tell jokes. Here are a few examples I found in a quick search, and after flying with them I can believe these:
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "There may be 50 ways to leave
your lover, but there are only 4 ways out of this airplane."
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard Southwest
Flight XXX to YYY. To operate your seatbelt, insert the metal tab
into the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other
seatbelt and if you don't know how to operate one, you probably
shouldn't be out in public unsupervised. In the event of a sudden
loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will descend from the ceiling.
Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you
have a small child traveling with you, secure your mask before
assisting with theirs. If you are traveling with two small children,
decide now which one you love more."
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds,
but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and
remember, nobody loves you or your money more than Southwest
Airlines."
"Welcome to Las Vegas, Nevada. We'd like to thank you for flying Southwest Airlines, and on behalf of the flight deck we'd also like to extend a very special and very happy 101st Birthday to a gentleman seated near the front of the aircraft." <scattered applause> "So... if you happen to see the Captain on the way out, mind his walker, shake his hand, and wish him well with another 100 years working here at Southwest Airlines."
This quote says a lot:
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "There may be 50 ways to leave
your lover, but there are only 4 ways out of this airplane."
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard Southwest
Flight XXX to YYY. To operate your seatbelt, insert the metal tab
into the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other
seatbelt and if you don't know how to operate one, you probably
shouldn't be out in public unsupervised. In the event of a sudden
loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will descend from the ceiling.
Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you
have a small child traveling with you, secure your mask before
assisting with theirs. If you are traveling with two small children,
decide now which one you love more."
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds,
but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and
remember, nobody loves you or your money more than Southwest
Airlines."
"Welcome to Las Vegas, Nevada. We'd like to thank you for flying Southwest Airlines, and on behalf of the flight deck we'd also like to extend a very special and very happy 101st Birthday to a gentleman seated near the front of the aircraft." <scattered applause> "So... if you happen to see the Captain on the way out, mind his walker, shake his hand, and wish him well with another 100 years working here at Southwest Airlines."
This quote says a lot:
Personally, I think she is over-sensitive and may in fact be too dumb to find a seat. The judge probably scheduled this for trial to avoid charges that he is a racist as well. I think there is far too much 'racial sensitivity' in our country today, and the race card is thrown out far too often. As has been mentioned before, it seems to be perfectly acceptable to blacks to use the N____ word and they freely throw around derogatory terms towards other races. But heaven forbid anyone else say anything against them. Do you have an explanation for this? (You seem to have a wordy answer for everything else...)
That's probably your problem right there. The fact that you can't understand them does not mean my points are not understandable. Even the people who I disagree with here have been able to understand what I said and articulate reasons why they disagree. I think your confusion is a personal problem. Please point out any irrationality in my arguments. Otherwise, i'll just put a mark by your name and note that you disagree. If you can't say what you disagree with specifically then i can't help you.
The women felt it was racist. Whether that's true or not is something for the jury to decide. I laugh when someone says that someone today is setting the precedent that race/gender matters. As recently as 40 years ago, discrimination was so overt that in many places Blacks had to use separate doors, ride in separate seats on busses, drink from separate fountains... etc. Not too long before that being Black meant you were property and not a human being. The precedent is being set now?? There is an effort going on to erase the existing precedent.
At what point do you think political correctness should be eliminated? You state that being PC is what causes us to recognize differences. Would allowing anyone, anywhere to make racial slurs lead to a colorblind world? If you don't go that far and think it's okay for someone to say N--, where would you draw the line?
OK - I am in no way defending this suit. I think it is frivolous.
But to answer a couple of questions... lawyers are business people, and as such, are interested in making money. There is almost no practical incentive in taking a complaint to a company.
As far as your cute little diatribe on lawyers being God, what exactly are you trying to say? How is this relevant to this discussion? That seems more like venom than substance.
I understand people not liking lawyers because of frivolous garbage like this, but I don't see how we think ourselves divine.
Cuda1447
Lifer
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
OK so saying N_ is bad because it represents all the hatred and slavery in the past. Then why are blacks aloud to say it to other blakcs? Ok So cracker has no hatred in it? I know this word has been around just as long as N_ Its what the blacks called whites in response to being called a N--- It has just as much hatred in it as does the N--- word. Im not suggesting we all go around using these words. Im suggesting that we all stop. ALL, not just whites. Now Im not going to go sue people over using cracker in a song. Even if they hate white people, and are racist against them. But I know that if a white rapper used N--- all over the place that some black organization would sue them. And I know your thinking thats because of the hatred behind the world, but your wrong. Black people have it in their head that they CAN sue about everything, so they take the opportunity, whereas white people don't do it because they don't have it in their head. Its not because we aren't offended, we just know better. Blacks on the other hand seem to think that they can sue, and so they throw out that race card.
You mentioned something about Whites not sueing because we are not a minority. Well Asians, Indians, Blacks, Mexicans, etc. Are all minorities. I have only seen racial cases involving black people. I think its a black thing.
I have already posted a link, and a quote from the link about the use of other racially charged words in response to Cuda.
I don't mind the word "stupid" or any other insults, but I just won't deal with anyone who applies them in my direction. Don't waste time telling me it's stupid, tell me WHY you disagree with it. It adds nothing to your point, and I resent having to read through insults or filler to get to the relevant argument. Simple solution: ignore posters who continue to do this.
It doesn't matter if Southwest tries to be funny. If they did nothing wrong, then the case will be decided that way. If they did do something wrong, they won't use humor at other's expense any longer. Making fun of themselves or everyone at the same time is great. They just need to make sure to not single anyone out for their humor. That's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
If the judge made a legal ruling based on fear of being called a racist, he should be removed from his seat. Until someone proves that this is the case, the working theory is that he did his job and based his decisions on the law.
Being offended is not something you should be able to sue over. And these women were not discriminated against, or harassed in any way, they were just offended by something someone said. I'm sorry, but because you are offended is no reason to limit the free speach of anyone else. It's part of what this country was founded on.
I guess this means we should never use a word, phrase or pentamiter that was ever used in conjunction with some other word, phrase, tune or anything else that someone doesn't like! Well, go to court or consult the thought police.....we ain't doing it. And stepping on egg shells is out too, trying not to ever say anything, that might be done innocently, and offend somebody. Most of us have been called beloved patriot, Whitey and other names that I guess are Racist. Who cares. Why not get on with your life and stop constantly looking for something that offends you. This kind of nonsense just reinforces stereotypes and makes people seperatist to the extent they don't want to be around someone when they have to be constantly on guard less they innocently offend. In this world most of us are, or should be, offended every day. Is there anyplace that you think you would be less offended?
Actually after a lot of searching, I have yet to find a origin for the word cracker. There are a lot of hypotheses, very little proof. If that was the origin of the word no wonder it isn't very hurtful to Whites. I guarantee that slaves didn't call Whites derogatory names to their faces. It's also hard to be hurt by what someone calls you if you can legally buy and sell them anyway.
I'm not going to argue about the unfairness of a hypothetical situation that you just created. Prove to me that in the exact same situation, with a White person and a Black person, facing the same racial discrimination, that a Black person is more likely to sue. You keep stating things like this as fact with no evidence.
The University of Michigan was recently sued for racial discrimination. Apparently, if whites feel they are discriminated against, they are willing to sue.
Maetryx
Diamond Member
- Jan 18, 2001
- 4,849
- 1
- 81
Racist doesn't mean anything at all anymore, in my opinion. But based on your defintion, there is no doubt that most of us are racists. I hold the belief that race accounts for differences in ability, for example. I would need to be delusional or in an acute status of dogmatic denial to overlook the differences in racial abilities.
Your contradictions are manifest. You say that racism is not logical, but above you gave a logical definition of what it means to be a racist. You further compound your contradictions by indicating that racism was not built on justification. Then conclude by saying that racists use "something" as justification for their viewpoint.
No one here denies the right of these two ladies to be offended. Certainly they can take that willfully ignorant position on the innocent use of a child's rhyme if they feel like it. But big deal. They're offended. The most that should have occured is a semi-private conversation with the stewardess explaining the origins of the rhyme. And that's it.
Well when I was young I was definitely aware of the version that said catch a n***** (is this really a banned word here...or is everybody just not writing it?), but I've also heard those little black jawbreakers called n***** balls...
and this is up in Canada, home of multiculturalism and no race riots
and this is up in Canada, home of multiculturalism and no race riots
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