WSAD or arrow keys?

[PrinceofWands]

I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

What about when you need to type?

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: RadioHead84

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: Gurck
ESDF. I don't understand why anyone (much less a majority) would use wasd; esdf is where your hand rests normally when typing and it feels so much more natural there.

While I admittedly use WASD because it's what I learned, it actually does make a bit more sense than ESDF (at least on my ergonomic keyboard). For starters, I can reach control, caps lock, and tab with my pinky with considerably less effort in the WASD position. At the same time, my ability to reach t, g, and b with my pointer finger is not significantly impaired (my pointer is longer and more versatile than my pinky). This is advantageous because it makes using the entire left side of the keyboard much more comfortable. As games become more and more complicated, simply being able to comfortably use the entire side of the keybaord becomes much more important.

Also, when I lay my hand flat and keep my center three fingers on ESDF, my pinky rests on the junction between shift, control, and windows. But when I do the same with WASD, my pinky rests firmly on control, making its role a bit less ambiguous. I would argue that this is a good thing because it standardizes controls and, as we all know, trying to switch off with somebody who uses controls different from your own is very irritating.

What you say could be true for you. I dont have any trouble reaching..that could be becuase i have been doing it for so long but still. I also feel that using EDSF lets you use more buttons beucase it has the standard letter buttons on all sides.

Of course it's true for me. That's why I said it.

If you're just musing about you experiences with ESDF, fine. But if your post is intended to convince anybody that ESDF is a superior control scheme, you should post something a bit more concrete than "ESDF lets you use more buttons because it has standard letter buttons on all sides." The number of letter keys on either side is generally inconsequential (they add to the same number either way and not many games require you to press multiple auxilliary buttons at the same time). What's important is your ability to use all the keys available to you. While you may have adapted to ESDF, in my opinion, WASD provides a more comfortable and intuitive experience for most gamers.

Also, I thought of another pro for WASD: alt. Pressing alt is much easier when my palm isn't centered over it.

Sorry if I seem a bit aggressive. I was a tad put-off by Gurck's "I don't understand why anybody would use WASD" statement. It is ignorant and short-sighted (I don't like it so I can't understand why anybody else would). There are valid reasons to use both but, IMO, there are more reasons for the average gamer to use WASD.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Gurck
Same, keep in mind keyboards are made with the intent of control, shift, caps & tab being accessible with your pinkey. A quick bit of experimentation showed me I have an easier time hitting those keys with my hand on esdf than I have hitting 5, 6, t, g & b with my hand on wasd.

Actually, I would argue that control, caps, and tab are NOT very accessible with your pinky because you hit them so infrequently. If you therefore want to use them for frequent functions in games, you should position your hand closer to them. That said, you could just as easily re-map those common functions closer to ESDF. My guess is that WASD was adopted simply because a borders caps, which provides a nice guideline for learning.

The fact that you find ESDF more comfortable is a fine reason to use it. At this point, the argument becomes tolerant to brute disagreement. I prefer one; you prefer the other. Great for both of us. The least you can do is endeavor to understand why the majority of us choose WASD, even if you don't feel the same way about it.

 

[alkemyst]

i like the dudes talking about an inverted T pattern as if the keys around them are non-existant.

how do you arrow and page control keys guy strafe and reload and ... and ...?

win any DM's?

 

[upsciLLion]

My keys are too crazy to type out.

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
WASD > *

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: RadioHead84

Originally posted by: EpsiIon

Originally posted by: Gurck
ESDF. I don't understand why anyone (much less a majority) would use wasd; esdf is where your hand rests normally when typing and it feels so much more natural there.

While I admittedly use WASD because it's what I learned, it actually does make a bit more sense than ESDF (at least on my ergonomic keyboard). For starters, I can reach control, caps lock, and tab with my pinky with considerably less effort in the WASD position. At the same time, my ability to reach t, g, and b with my pointer finger is not significantly impaired (my pointer is longer and more versatile than my pinky). This is advantageous because it makes using the entire left side of the keyboard much more comfortable. As games become more and more complicated, simply being able to comfortably use the entire side of the keybaord becomes much more important.

Also, when I lay my hand flat and keep my center three fingers on ESDF, my pinky rests on the junction between shift, control, and windows. But when I do the same with WASD, my pinky rests firmly on control, making its role a bit less ambiguous. I would argue that this is a good thing because it standardizes controls and, as we all know, trying to switch off with somebody who uses controls different from your own is very irritating.

What you say could be true for you. I dont have any trouble reaching..that could be becuase i have been doing it for so long but still. I also feel that using EDSF lets you use more buttons beucase it has the standard letter buttons on all sides.

Of course it's true for me. That's why I said it.

If you're just musing about you experiences with ESDF, fine. But if your post is intended to convince anybody that ESDF is a superior control scheme, you should post something a bit more concrete than "ESDF lets you use more buttons because it has standard letter buttons on all sides." The number of letter keys on either side is generally inconsequential (they add to the same number either way and not many games require you to press multiple auxilliary buttons at the same time). What's important is your ability to use all the keys available to you. While you may have adapted to ESDF, in my opinion, WASD provides a more comfortable and intuitive experience for most gamers.

Also, I thought of another pro for WASD: alt. Pressing alt is much easier when my palm isn't centered over it.

Sorry if I seem a bit aggressive. I was a tad put-off by Gurck's "I don't understand why anybody would use WASD" statement. It is ignorant and short-sighted (I don't like it so I can't understand why anybody else would). There are valid reasons to use both but, IMO, there are more reasons for the average gamer to use WASD.

Lol man, if you got offended by that... :laugh: If I told you why I think wasd is the standard you'd have something to feel offended about

 

[sandman018]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
WASD > *

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Lol man, if you got offended by that... :laugh: If I told you why I think wasd is the standard you'd have something to feel offended about

Yeah, pretty stupid, I know. :roll: at self.

Although I'm curious to know why you think WASD is the standard...

EDIT: BTW, I edited the post to which you responded, in case you have any other thoughts on the issue.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

esdf, it's easier on your ring finger

 

[5ayle]

my bad... he with his pinky the A button

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

Wow, that's about the least ergonomic layout ive seen yet...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

What about when you need to type?

Doesn't happen much, not with ventrilo running. Also most games now have such awesome text binds I just don't type much when I play. If I do it's in downtime so I can afforde to look down to reposition my hands.

 

[Albis]

in older games it was arrow keys but in the past 5 years or so i've been a wasd user. i'm hooked to wasd and won't be changing

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

Wow, that's about the least ergonomic layout ive seen yet...

I disagree, i think it's by FAR the most. No strain ever, regardless of number of hours played. No question about hand position makes it mindless to play by feel entirely. More importantly it allows easy coverage by other fingers for multiple keystrokes...ie crouching, moving forward, moving left, switching weapons and calling in position all at the same time.

I know it seems odd at first, but once people try it almost all of them have switched to some variation of it. We recently had a lan party and it cracked me up to watch. The first night only me and my friends used numpad. By sunday at least 20 other people were converts.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

Wow, that's about the least ergonomic layout ive seen yet...

I disagree, i think it's by FAR the most. No strain ever, regardless of number of hours played. No question about hand position makes it mindless to play by feel entirely.

I know it seems odd at first, but once people try it almost all of them have switched to some variation of it. We recently had a lan party and it cracked me up to watch. The first night only me and my friends used numpad. By sunday at least 20 other people were converts.

Are you two hands really close together? I like a good amount of distance between teh two hands so WASD ends up working well for me. If iw anted that distance while using numpad i'd have to push my keyboard off to the left. And I'd rather move my fingers off to the left and right instead of up and down in awkward positions to reach the other action buttons. I guess you have more flexible fingers than me.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

Wow, that's about the least ergonomic layout ive seen yet...

I disagree, i think it's by FAR the most. No strain ever, regardless of number of hours played. No question about hand position makes it mindless to play by feel entirely.

I know it seems odd at first, but once people try it almost all of them have switched to some variation of it. We recently had a lan party and it cracked me up to watch. The first night only me and my friends used numpad. By sunday at least 20 other people were converts.

Are you two hands really close together? I like a good amount of distance between teh two hands so WASD ends up working well for me. If iw anted that distance while using numpad i'd have to push my keyboard off to the left. And I'd rather move my fingers off to the left and right instead of up and down in awkward positions to reach the other action buttons. I guess you have more flexible fingers than me.

My hands are usually pretty close together actually, i never really thought about it though. I am fairly dextrous (lots of typing, piano, etc), but I'm only 5'10" so I have average finger lengths. Like I said, it seem utterly impossible to someone that hasn't worked with it, but almost everyone who tries it sees the benefits.

I just can't get used to having all the keys around the wasd or esdf variants. You almost never use more than 20 keys in a game, so why have more around your fingers? The ONLY downside for me is the normal number and function keys being so far away, but I almost never need those except to load binds so it all works out.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Well ... since I have a dvorak keyboard, I use ,oae however, it's the same place as wsad on the qwerty layout.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
I can't use or understand anything other than reprogramming to the num pad and other utility keys.

8 forward
4 strafe left
6 strafe right
2 back
7 turn (or lean or roll) left
8 turn (or lean or roll) right
5 reload
0 prone
. action
enter sprint
/*-+13 assign to various functions.
up arrow jump
down arrow crouch
left and right arrow varies game to game, but usually about switching weapons
prnt, scroll, pause, insert, home, page up, delete, end, page down vary by game
; talk
space team talk

That way other than talking my hand never rises from the numpad area and I never need to look at hands.

Wow, that's about the least ergonomic layout ive seen yet...

I disagree, i think it's by FAR the most. No strain ever, regardless of number of hours played. No question about hand position makes it mindless to play by feel entirely.

I know it seems odd at first, but once people try it almost all of them have switched to some variation of it. We recently had a lan party and it cracked me up to watch. The first night only me and my friends used numpad. By sunday at least 20 other people were converts.

Are you two hands really close together? I like a good amount of distance between teh two hands so WASD ends up working well for me. If iw anted that distance while using numpad i'd have to push my keyboard off to the left. And I'd rather move my fingers off to the left and right instead of up and down in awkward positions to reach the other action buttons. I guess you have more flexible fingers than me.

My hands are usually pretty close together actually, i never really thought about it though. I am fairly dextrous (lots of typing, piano, etc), but I'm only 5'10" so I have average finger lengths. Like I said, it seem utterly impossible to someone that hasn't worked with it, but almost everyone who tries it sees the benefits.

I just can't get used to having all the keys around the wasd or esdf variants. You almost never use more than 20 keys in a game, so why have more around your fingers? The ONLY downside for me is the normal number and function keys being so far away, but I almost never need those except to load binds so it all works out.

I think i just appreciate the widerlayout of the wasd. If i went num pad i'd probabaly have 5 as back instead of 2

 

[alkemyst]

i think many of these guys are theory not real game play guys, I just tried to play with the numpad and mouse

felt like I was about to fall out of my chair.

no matter if 100 or 2 keys are next to your bindings...I never look at the keyboard.

 

[LASTGUY2GETPS2]

Originally posted by: ironcrotch
only newbs use the arrow keys..

 

[meltdown75]

WASD although i prefer to say WADS

 

[jelkukipik]

Originally posted by: ironcrotch
only newbs use the arrow keys..

 

[dman]

I think I used WASD when Quake came out. Before that it was arrows. I saw someone else playing the game using those keys and didn't understand why they would use them, but, after trying it myself it quickly felt right.

I never thought to try other variations on that, like ESDF. Trying it now, I don't like it because it leaves my pinky finger too far from the shift key, but, I could probably deal with it if it had other advantages. I'm more used to the shift key being for run/walk.

Ah well, whatever works.

 

[Tylanner]

The arrows just feel absolutely perfect to me....

In CS the #pad are my weapons and right click is crouch.

In quake right click is railgun