Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
People invest in cryptos by money from stocks or mutual funds, credit card debt or taken out home equity loans on their house. Talk about playing with fire.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/taking-on-debt-to-buy-bitcoin-is-a-bad-idea.html

Well the first examples are not like the rest of the examples... investing in cryptos by transferring money from stocks or other investments... is called investing. Doesn't matter the asset. Now taking on debt to get into crypto - that's a terrible idea. One I've done. Never doing again, even though it worked out for me in the end. I'm only investing profits at this point and don't much intend to transfer much cash into my crypto portfolio at this point.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I have air for sale!! Buy your free bottles of air!! Free shipping on orders over $1,000!! No crypto payments accepted.

You will receive an "empty" bottle full of air, or if you prefer air wrapped in plastic...good for shipping!

Your shitposts are shitposts. Go away.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Day traded from 48 to 49 VET. Just being a barnacle on the whales mounting the sell walls. Once i get more into this I will probably start moving it around a little more. The volume on VET is so low that just $500k is enough to completely stall the market.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,167
9,949
126
Yeah, me too for a while using the NV version miner. It's back, for me, though, btw.

Something to do with the BTC / USD conversion rate API being offline for a few hours.

Seems fixed?

(Your balance should NOT have gone to 0 BTC, it should still have shown your BTC, just that your USD amount was $0.00.)
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Wait, Sonikku and VirtualLarry, are you two GPU mining BTC?

That can't be very profitable. I'd be looking at mining XMR and ETH or anything else really, you should get far more in profit from those than BTC, especially on GPUs.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,439
28,988
146
I have air for sale!! Buy your free bottles of air!! Free shipping on orders over $1,000!! No crypto payments accepted.

You will receive an "empty" bottle full of air, or if you prefer air wrapped in plastic...good for shipping!

Hey man, bottles of air will be extremely valuable if Trump's EPA continues on its current track!
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,483
2,352
136
Well the first examples are not like the rest of the examples... investing in cryptos by transferring money from stocks or other investments... is called investing. Doesn't matter the asset. Now taking on debt to get into crypto - that's a terrible idea. One I've done. Never doing again, even though it worked out for me in the end. I'm only investing profits at this point and don't much intend to transfer much cash into my crypto portfolio at this point.
No different than buying on margin. People have been taking on debt to invest for a long time.
 
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Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
614
228
116
But doing it to buy crypto is silly, it takes strong hands to HODL through a major dip which is something a novice may not have.

I’ve got folks messaging me daily on Facebook looking for some insight into crypto, as if I’m some kind of insider. I’ve never purchased crypto, so my risk at this point is zero and I try to explain as much. But then the conversation turns to mining and asking how to do it, these being folks who’ve never even installed an OS mind you.

In the end I suppose I come off as someone who is greedy and is trying to HODL all the monies for himself, when in reality I’m just a nerdbro who read an Arstechnica article before all this blew up.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,053
974
126
I never even traded conventional stocks before and I got into crypto 'investing' for the first time in my life. I understand it's mega volatile and super risky.

But damn these people on reddit (/r/cryptocurrency, various coin subreddits), they're so damn weak, so fickle. They freak out at every littlest thing.

Just buy and hold. You'll be very likely be up on a long term (6 mos - 1yr++)
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
I never even traded conventional stocks before and I got into crypto 'investing' for the first time in my life. I understand it's mega volatile and super risky.

But damn these people on reddit (/r/cryptocurrency, various coin subreddits), they're so damn weak, so fickle. They freak out at every littlest thing.

Just buy and hold. You'll be very likely be up on a long term (6 mos - 1yr++)
Yep, I would not try any day trading with alt coins. Maybe BTC or ETH, but even that is too stressful.

Adding more VEN to my portfolio. I stupidly forgot to include Coinbase's recipient code on a wire transfer two days ago, so I'm still waiting for that to show up in my account.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I don't know anything about NEM but isn't ethereum mainly a system for smart contracts?

Yes, but "smart contracts" is actually a very generic term when it comes to blockchain networks. The deep technical aspects of ethereum are slightly out of my reach, but from what I understand the entire network can act as a virtual machine and this allows distributed apps (dapps) and allows the creation of discrete blockchain networks that are included on the main network but separated from the other discrete chains and potentially private from the main network as well.

NEM is largely the same concept, though I think potentially more capable. Smart contracts extend far beyond "A does this, B does this, algorithm agrees and executes contract" - well, it's either that, or smart contracts are just one aspect of Ethereum and there are other technicalities that allow the extended use. Ethereum can get incredibly congested though due to the computational aspect of block confirmation/consensus. A big difference between it and NEM is that NEM doesn't use computation to confirm new blocks, there isn't any mining that results in new coins being generated.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
No different than buying on margin. People have been taking on debt to invest for a long time.

Margin trading is different though. Not to say that I am an expert on it, far from it, but it's not like you are directly paying through debt. You can borrow and trade in risky ways via margin trading but it isn't classical debt, that "debt" can be margin called whenever if your position dropped extensively. With margin you are supposed to have liquid assets so that you can cover any margin calls, and you should have the same amount of cash to cover everything if that margin call comes.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Hey Ponyo, you should update the thread title to say that Bitcoin is up to a bazillion dollars now :)
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,483
2,352
136
NEM is largely the same concept, though I think potentially more capable. Smart contracts extend far beyond "A does this, B does this, algorithm agrees and executes contract" - well, it's either that, or smart contracts are just one aspect of Ethereum and there are other technicalities that allow the extended use. Ethereum can get incredibly congested though due to the computational aspect of block confirmation/consensus. A big difference between it and NEM is that NEM doesn't use computation to confirm new blocks, there isn't any mining that results in new coins being generated.
Isn't that why ETH is moving to POS in the future? The mining goes away, and at that point all the computational power will be dedicated to confirming transactions/running contracts instead.

Margin trading is different though. Not to say that I am an expert on it, far from it, but it's not like you are directly paying through debt. You can borrow and trade in risky ways via margin trading but it isn't classical debt, that "debt" can be margin called whenever if your position dropped extensively. With margin you are supposed to have liquid assets so that you can cover any margin calls, and you should have the same amount of cash to cover everything if that margin call comes.
I don't see how it is different. It has always been my understanding that buying on Margin is borrowing money from your broker. You borrow money you don't have at a set percentage rate (usually 5-7%) to invest. Yes, it can be margin called if the value drops too much because lender would want to protect himself. Theoretically if you go all out and max out your margin power, and the value of your investment goes down in half, the lender margin calls it, gets all of his money back, and you the borrower gets left with zero money. Same as borrowing to invest in cryptos, there won't be margin call, but if crypto goes to zero, the crypto buyer will lose his investment, and will still have debt to pay off.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Isn't that why ETH is moving to POS in the future? The mining goes away, and at that point all the computational power will be dedicated to confirming transactions/running contracts instead.


I don't see how it is different. It has always been my understanding that buying on Margin is borrowing money from your broker. You borrow money you don't have at a set percentage rate (usually 5-7%) to invest. Yes, it can be margin called if the value drops too much because lender would want to protect himself. Theoretically if you go all out and max out your margin power, and the value of your investment goes down in half, the lender margin calls it, gets all of his money back, and you the borrower gets left with zero money. Same as borrowing to invest in cryptos, there won't be margin call, but if crypto goes to zero, the crypto buyer will lose his investment, and will still have debt to pay off.

That's the difference. One leaves you without any liquid assets because you have to settle the margin call. The other leaves you "in debt". And you'll have to make payments in the future to it with your regular income. In one you are leveraging net worth, the other you are leveraging future income. The opportunity cost is still pretty similar though. So it isn't much reason to be nit picky about it.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
That's the difference. One leaves you without any liquid assets because you have to settle the margin call. The other leaves you "in debt". And you'll have to make payments in the future to it with your regular income. In one you are leveraging net worth, the other you are leveraging future income. The opportunity cost is still pretty similar though. So it isn't much reason to be nit picky about it.

Exactly. It's almost a pedantic difference, but it's an important distinction nonetheless.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,167
9,949
126
So when is McDonald's going to take various CC "coins" for payment, in their "app"? Imagine paying for lunch at McD's with mBTC? Could happen.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
8,605
2,233
136
Yes, but "smart contracts" is actually a very generic term when it comes to blockchain networks. The deep technical aspects of ethereum are slightly out of my reach, but from what I understand the entire network can act as a virtual machine and this allows distributed apps (dapps) and allows the creation of discrete blockchain networks that are included on the main network but separated from the other discrete chains and potentially private from the main network as well.

NEM is largely the same concept, though I think potentially more capable. Smart contracts extend far beyond "A does this, B does this, algorithm agrees and executes contract" - well, it's either that, or smart contracts are just one aspect of Ethereum and there are other technicalities that allow the extended use. Ethereum can get incredibly congested though due to the computational aspect of block confirmation/consensus. A big difference between it and NEM is that NEM doesn't use computation to confirm new blocks, there isn't any mining that results in new coins being generated.
My problem with smart contracts is that they're useless unless you have a means of enforcing them which means they need to interface in some manner with the legal systems of any country where they're used. And lets forget about any issues relating to choice of law - which jurisdiction's laws should govern a transaction.

I guess something like Ethereum could be used for automated execution of trades between parties but even if you forget about the legal issues, isn't the coin just a token used to verify the transaction? How does that create significant demand for the token?
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,008
2,838
136
People invest in cryptos by money from stocks or mutual funds, credit card debt or taken out home equity loans on their house. Talk about playing with fire.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/taking-on-debt-to-buy-bitcoin-is-a-bad-idea.html

Uhm...is crypto considered an asset that could be seized in bankruptcy? If you were tanking financially such that you were headed for bankruptcy anyway, maybe that would be a win-win strategy. Crypto falters and you still get to erase your debt through bankruptcy and start with whatever value it has left. Or crypto thrives and you get to pay off your debt and keep any profits made from it.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,008
2,838
136
I never even traded conventional stocks before and I got into crypto 'investing' for the first time in my life. I understand it's mega volatile and super risky.

But damn these people on reddit (/r/cryptocurrency, various coin subreddits), they're so damn weak, so fickle. They freak out at every littlest thing.

Just buy and hold. You'll be very likely be up on a long term (6 mos - 1yr++)

I think the nature of day trading crypto affects the brain much like a slot machine. Looking for the big score with enough day-to-day volatility to anticipate you might miss it if you don't keep checking is the definition of behaviors that prove addictive. That's why I think crypto is actually doing so well. It gets people hooked.

But you're right. Buy and hold is the way to actually get the best return. Don't be an addict.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
So when is McDonald's going to take various CC "coins" for payment, in their "app"? Imagine paying for lunch at McD's with mBTC? Could happen.

This is what the BTC Lightening Network 2nd Layer Protocol is explicitly designed for.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
8,605
2,233
136
Uhm...is crypto considered an asset that could be seized in bankruptcy? If you were tanking financially such that you were headed for bankruptcy anyway, maybe that would be a win-win strategy. Crypto falters and you still get to erase your debt through bankruptcy and start with whatever value it has left. Or crypto thrives and you get to pay off your debt and keep any profits made from it.
The nice thing about mined cryptos is that no one knows you have them unless you try to trade them. At least, I'm not sure how anyone could find out since your mining rig doesn't/shouldn't have any personal identifying information. Once you try to trade though all of that KYC/AML stuff comes into play.

The downside is that to actually keep your money safe you need to move your coins offline to either hardcopy or portable storage - something you really need to do if you have a significant sum.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,008
2,838
136
The nice thing about mined cryptos is that no one knows you have them unless you try to trade them. At least, I'm not sure how anyone could find out since your mining rig doesn't/shouldn't have any personal identifying information. Once you try to trade though all of that KYC/AML stuff comes into play.

The downside is that to actually keep your money safe you need to move your coins offline to either hardcopy or portable storage - something you really need to do if you have a significant sum.

Yeah. I guess you could funnel your money into a mining operation and conceal the assets. But what about crypto you bought on an exchange?