would you save her life? (not hypothetical, this is real)

[Jugernot]

Morally yes I'd save her, realistically no. Anybody watch the movie John Q? This stuff happens everyday...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988.

If that's all it takes to do a liver transplant why don't you open up shop in yer basement?


Lethal

 

[LongCoolMother]

morally, yes

would i? yes

realistically? no.

any life is worth saving, but we cant afford to do this, although i wish it were possible.

 

[mithrandir2001]

At an atomic level we want to save lives but it's just not possible in aggregate. It's the cruel reality of supply and demand in a world of limited resources.

Tough decisions have to be made. Government money should not be spent on the transplant. Funds should come from private interests.

 

[tcsenter]

Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988.

If you don't understand the costs involved, then why try to guess and make an ass of yourself?

 

[Dudd]

I voted no. It sucks, but people die. Everyone knows that they might get a disease, and a lot of people guard against this by buying insurance. We do not live in a socialistic society, so you can't expect the gov't to make things better. As someone already said, if the gov't decides to help her out, where does it end? Why buy insurance? If you want that safety net, move to Canada or Europe.

 

[Gaard]

Yeah, let the b!tch die. It costs too much. If it only cost $50,00 that'd be a different story.

 

[bolido2000]

No. This is not the responsability of the government.

 

[dethman]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988.

wow are you a complete idiot? :disgust:


in terms of the thread topic, let me tell you that we all want to cure everyone we can, but we have to know that we can't save everyone. we do as much as we can for those we can do it for and we have to accept those limitations. if your dad wants to try to get private funding for the operation then that is perfectly fine but i doubt the government would have any part in setting such a precedent as paying for translplants. there are just too many sick people.

 

[Thegonagle]

I say take it to the media. A young imigrant mom is going to sell a hell of a lot better than some classic case of someone wrecking their body from being a wino, American-born or not. It's the American way, right?

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988.

I say we give this guys liver to her Sure would cut down on the $300K liver transplant

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[SuperCyrix]

Our government can't afford to hand out magic johnson like Aids treatments to everyone that might be worth saving either.
Doesn't it suck that so many die when all it takes is money to save them? Kind of makes me wonder why we're pissing so much money oversea to people who hates us.

The only long term solution that I can think of is if the US government started training surgeon. There are so many people who want to but can't get into medical school, the US government can sit aside a program that trains surgens who can only work for the US government at a lower pay. While these surgens might not be the very best, they can offer an affordable solution for our government to treat those who are just being left to die.

 

[TheShiz]

the government is too busy building 2.4 billion dollar planes (B2) to give a sh!t about anything important.

Tim

 

[B00ne]

I am not replying to the original thread as I know that liver transplants require a little more than just some doctors work and some medicine. My question from the replies: Is it really like that:

If u dont have the money/insurance in the US u could/will die if u have some illness. (I am talking about allnesses that can be cured with medicine not things that require the luck to find donors or something like that). Or asked differently : Will doctors not do everything possible to help u if u cannot pay for it? (for whatever reason).


I am asking this because there is quite a debate about our health care system and they are debating if certain changes will lead into a two class medicine - health care depending on your wallet - which will not be accepted.

 

[CantedValve]

Originally posted by: SuperCyrix
Our government can't afford to hand out magic johnson like Aids treatments to everyone that might be worth saving either.
Doesn't it suck that so many die when all it takes is money to save them? Kind of makes me wonder why we're pissing so much money oversea to people who hates us.

The only long term solution that I can think of is if the US government started training surgeon. There are so many people who want to but can't get into medical school, the US government can sit aside a program that trains surgens who can only work for the US government at a lower pay. While these surgens might not be the very best, they can offer an affordable solution for our government to treat those who are just being left to die.

No thanks... if it is anything like other government programs, those trained will be evaluated on an effort basis (not knowledge basis) and will take 10 times as long, charge you 15 times as much, and only have half the success rate of the private sector. Is that really the kind of person you want standing over you with a knife?

 

[CantedValve]

Originally posted by: CPA
Maybe if the health care system went back to a cash base system we wouldn't have $300,000 liver transplants.

AHHHHHHHH!! NOOOOO!!! NO CASH BASIS!!!!

Whew... dont DO that to me! I get these accounting class flashbacks, and all of the sudden I have the desire to imaple someone with a pencil!

 

[CantedValve]

Originally posted by: Gaard
$300,000 for a liver transplant? Sheesh...I should've gone into the medical field. Seriously though, why is your dad thinking, "Maybe I can convince other people to flip the bill" instead of "Maybe I can get the others to waive the bill"?

Her citizenship shouldn't have anything to do with this decision. If I didn't have insurance and I was going to die in a couple of weeks unless I got a liver transplant would the fact that I'm an American help?

Would the fact that you are an American/CA resident get you the liver? No. Why should it be any different for this chick? I know you arent advocating that position Gaard, I was just extending your example.

 

[Amused]

This is what charity is for, not government.

To answer your question, yes, I would do whatever I could to save her life. However, I would not think to force others to pay for it.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: kt
Save her life damnit. I am CA taxpayer as well. Knowing that my tax dollar is saving a human life instead of being spent on stupid politicians gives me some comfort.

Hahaha, a government dollar is never spent "instead of". It's always spent "in addition to".

If you want to give completely free medical care, you'd better be ready for the crash of the US medical system. More procedures performed isn't the real cost. The real cost is that when there are more procedures performed, there are more mistakes made. And just imagine how many of these poor people are going to jump on the chance to sue a hospital for billions.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: kt
Save her life damnit. I am CA taxpayer as well. Knowing that my tax dollar is saving a human life instead of being spent on stupid politicians gives me some comfort.

Hahaha, a government dollar is never spent "instead of". It's always spent "in addition to".

If you want to give completely free medical care, you'd better be ready for the crash of the US medical system. More procedures performed isn't the real cost. The real cost is that when there are more procedures performed, there are more mistakes made. And just imagine how many of these poor people are going to jump on the chance to sue a hospital for billions.

Yep, if you want to see what socialized healthcare would look like, just go to your local DMV.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Once again, why does she need a transplant? Which fatal liver disease does she have?

 

[Zebo]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988. --

You get what you pay for

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
no, the role of the government is to serve it's citizens

So why the fvck has your government been involved in so many bullsh!t "HUMANITARIAN" foreign policy forays? Protecting what? Kosovo (never even a country) citizens? Kurds? Somalis?
WTF are you talking about?

If they can justify billions of dollars in military spending to send troops to places like Yugoslavia, somalia etc .. then they can fvcking save the life of this woman.

I can't even believe that people give in to the idea that someone is about to die because of MONEY, or lack of.
It's ludicrous.
You say it's the "real world" .. money is the abstraction, not life.

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: kt Save her life damnit. I am CA taxpayer as well. Knowing that my tax dollar is saving a human life instead of being spent on stupid politicians gives me some comfort.

Hahaha, a government dollar is never spent "instead of". It's always spent "in addition to". If you want to give completely free medical care, you'd better be ready for the crash of the US medical system. More procedures performed isn't the real cost. The real cost is that when there are more procedures performed, there are more mistakes made. And just imagine how many of these poor people are going to jump on the chance to sue a hospital for billions.

Yep, if you want to see what socialized healthcare would look like, just go to your local DMV.

Yeah or you can come to Canada, or Cuba even :Q


I am not a socialist/communist/pinko or anything else

What the fvck is the point of PROGRESS and technological/social/medical .. advancement .. the supposed advancement of civilization if we have 23 year od mothers dying of liver failure for lack of funds in 'THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH"..
absurd!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: smp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: kt Save her life damnit. I am CA taxpayer as well. Knowing that my tax dollar is saving a human life instead of being spent on stupid politicians gives me some comfort.

Hahaha, a government dollar is never spent "instead of". It's always spent "in addition to". If you want to give completely free medical care, you'd better be ready for the crash of the US medical system. More procedures performed isn't the real cost. The real cost is that when there are more procedures performed, there are more mistakes made. And just imagine how many of these poor people are going to jump on the chance to sue a hospital for billions.

Yep, if you want to see what socialized healthcare would look like, just go to your local DMV.

Yeah or you can come to Canada, or Cuba even :Q


I am not a socialist/communist/pinko or anything else

What the fvck is the point of PROGRESS and technological/social/medical .. advancement .. the supposed advancement of civilization if we have 23 year od mothers dying of liver failure for lack of funds in 'THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH"..
absurd!

No, what is absurd is forcing others to pay for her care. Why do people think progress must be met with fewer freedoms?

As I said before, this is what charity is for. I'm all for voluntarily helping people. However, no one should EVER be entitled to the labor or fruits of the labor of another.

Nanny-state socialism is not progress, it regressive.