would you save her life? (not hypothetical, this is real)

[Nitemare]

I would like to think that by my paying one to 200 per pay period for health coverage, I would get dibs on a liver vs someone who was an illegal alien, is a quasi-illegal alien(produced an offspring while on American soil illegally, convict or anyone else who is not paying for it.

If you wanted free health care they should not have stopped at California, as they still had two more states to go for that.

 

[eLiu]

Morally and ethically...ideally...yes, we should save her. HOWEVER, in a society where laws are designed to be blanket rules that promote the COMMON good, the INDIVIDUAL's needs cannot be and are not the primary concern. We cannot expect to please everyone...although it may be sad/frustrating/difficult, the government has to let a few 'die' for the good of the whole. Furthermore, a rule is a rule...as soon as you make one exception, you have to make exceptions for everyone.

So, going to the media to shame the government into paying is, in my opinion, unequivocally NOT the correct course of action. On the other hand, appealing to the public's charity and various charity organizations would be the way to go.

 

[tcsenter]

you're suggesting that if my dad really cared, he would forfeit 2 years of his post tax salary?

Well? Are you saying that you're dad is only willing to shame others into paying the extremely expensive costs of a liver transplants as long as its not coming out of his pocket? Maybe he should pay for it, THEN he can show the example of personal sacrifice he has set? It would make his 'shame game' carry a bit more weight and credibility.

 

[snooker]

Have your dad goto Mexico where she is from and preform the surgery. Hopefully your dad really wants to help her and do the surgery for free. If I made the cash that doctors make, I sure would.

 

[Vic]

Why does the burden fall upon the people and the government when it is the doctors (who have sworn sacred oaths) who are ones refusing to do anything ot help unless they are paid?
IMO, your dad should get the word out in order to obtain private donations and to encourage his fellow doctors to donate their time.

 

[dolph]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

you're suggesting that if my dad really cared, he would forfeit 2 years of his post tax salary?

Well? Are you saying that you're dad is only willing to shame others into paying the extremely expensive costs of a liver transplants as long as its not coming out of his pocket? Maybe he should pay for it, THEN he can show the example of personal sacrifice he has set? It would make his 'shame game' carry a bit more weight and credibility.

lemme guess - you voted no. my dad (and most other doctors) sees many patients that can't pay them, including this one who up until now my dad has been treating for free. so you obviously don't understand how the medical field works. his "shame game" has more than enough credibility. but assuming he did pay for her procedure, would that shame you into trying to save her life? don't be afraid to say no, but please refrain from all but calling my father a hypocrite because he won't spend a third of a million dollars to treat a stranger.

snooker: read the edit at the bottom of my first post

 

[LH]

Well, its called.

Malpractice insurance.
Years and Years of schooling, followed by 100 hour work weeks for 4 years after that.
Did I mention Malpractice insurance? Thats 100k a year, $100000 a YEAR.
Hospitals also have to have malpractice insurance.
Hospitals already lose billions a year.

Why are medical prices high? Because Drs get ripped off, Hospitals get ripped off, then they get sued, and sued again, most of the time for no good reason.

Transplants arent exactly easy to do. And even if she got one it doesnt mean she'd live.

$300000 just doesnt go to the Dr.

 

[mcveigh]

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
Why does the burden fall upon the people and the government when it is the doctors (who have sworn sacred oaths) who are ones refusing to do anything ot help unless they are paid?
IMO, your dad should get the word out in order to obtain private donations and to encourage his fellow doctors to donate their time.

where are they going to preform it, in a garage?

I think they should try to save her but the government shouldn't pay for it.

 

[rufruf44]

No, for the various reason stated above. Life isn't fair and will never be fair.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
A life is a life.... save it.

If your dad took the oaths that I remember reading about (and if he's a real human being with any sort of conscience), then he has the ethical obligation to save her life.

nik

LOL - I think you should have reread the Hippocatic Oath before joining the conversation.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Why dos she need the transplant?

I've seen very few transplant candidates that have not drunk their liver into oblivion or used IV drugs & contracted Hepatitis C.

If she has Hep C, then the new liver will likely become infected too...

 

[hamburglar]

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
i did an essay on illegal immigration last semester and this topic came up (or something like it) it sets a bad precedent if we do it for her and not do it for everyone. morallly yes you should save her, but in the real world no, we just can't afford it

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mcveigh

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
Why does the burden fall upon the people and the government when it is the doctors (who have sworn sacred oaths) who are ones refusing to do anything ot help unless they are paid?
IMO, your dad should get the word out in order to obtain private donations and to encourage his fellow doctors to donate their time.

where are they going to preform it, in a garage?

I think they should try to save her but the government shouldn't pay for it.

The private donations would be to pay for hospital space, equipment, and staff. The doctors donate their time and expertise.

The health/medical industry needs to decide. They are either in the glorious and charitable business of saving and improving lives, or they are a for-profit business like any other and deserve to be treated as such.

 

[tcsenter]

lemme guess - you voted no. my dad (and most other doctors) sees many patients that can't pay them, including this one who up until now my dad has been treating for free. so you obviously don't understand how the medical field works.

Umm......nevermind.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Been a nurse for 17 years, I know very few physicians in private practice that see patients for free.

I do know several hospitals, as a condition of employment, force physicians to do community service work.

 

[RaySun2Be]

today the social worker told my dad that she has a sort of MediCal insurance that only covers emergency medicine, and definitely not liver transplants

That's the part that really irks me. How much more of an "emergency" can there be with a terminal liver illness and 2 weeks or so to live? :| Typical government bureaucrat thinking. :|

If it was my liver, I'd certainly think it was an emergency. Would her insurance cover the transplant if she had been in a car accident, and the liver was damaged, and they were trying to save her life? What would constitute a life threatening emergency that they WOULD cover?

BTW, There are some hospitals that are obligated to treat a patient, irregardless of insurance.

While putting pressure on the government to pay for her transplant would be setting a bad precedent, and open up other transient/illegan alien health care coverage, increased health costs, etc., I think that denying her a chance at life is setting another precedent, and one that I feel is even worse. Those who have money live, those who don't die. Or where is the threshold? Say if it is something that can be done for 100,000, sure go ahead, but anything costing more, they die?

And what about insurance? Could then the same decisions be extended? Well, gee, sorry Mr. Smith, but your heart transplant will cost 800,000, your insurance will cover 500,000. Sorry, can't do it, unless you can come up with the 300,00 difference. It just costs the hospital too much, so you'll just have to die. So sorry, Mr. Smith. A nurse will be around to help you check out.

What price life?

 

[Vadatajs]

No. Absolutely not.

 

[Mill]

I say yes. Raise my taxes if you have to. A life is a life.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Can anybody explain to me why it costs $300,000 for a liver transplant? That's re-damn-diculous. Scalpel costs $1.50, throw in electricity for lights $2.00, bed divided by uses during lifetime $1.00, nurse garments $5.00, oxygen $5.00, hospital overhead $299,988.

 

[SuperTool]

I am CA taxpayer, and I say no way, Jose.
It's called insurance. You don't have it and nothing happens, you save money. You don't have it and something happens, you are SOL. There are consequences to not having insurance. If the government paid for surgeries every time someone doesn't have insurance, noone would get insurance.
Don't come asking me to pay for it. She is here illegally anyways. Let her go back to the home country and get medical care there. Do you not realize our state is in an incredible budget mess? We cannot pay six figures for surgeries for illegal immigrants who don't even pay taxes. We have our own citizens who cannot afford these same surgeries and medical care they need.
Also I would like to know what caused her liver condition. I have a feeling it's related to alcohol abuse.
Regardless, if some charity wants to pay for her care, that's fine, but I want no part of it as CA taxpayer.

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Also I would like to know what caused her liver condition. I have a feeling it's related to alcohol abuse.
Regardless, if some charity wants to pay for her care, that's fine, but I want no part of it as CA taxpayer.

Wouldn't it be difficult to damage your liver to that extent with alcohol abuse at 23 years old?

 

[kt]

Save her life damnit. I am CA taxpayer as well. Knowing that my tax dollar is saving a human life instead of being spent on stupid politicians gives me some comfort.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Cyberian

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Also I would like to know what caused her liver condition. I have a feeling it's related to alcohol abuse.
Regardless, if some charity wants to pay for her care, that's fine, but I want no part of it as CA taxpayer.

Wouldn't it be difficult to damage your liver to that extent with alcohol abuse at 23 years old?

Maybe she was taking Advils while drinking
Regardless, I have no problem with other people deciding to pay for this. I do have a problem of forcing all CA taxpayers to pay.

 

[LakerGod]

Better that she gets the transplant, a hardworking woman who probably appreciates being in this country more than some alcoholic idiot who gets by just because they were born here. I wish her the best, keep us updated.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The government should NOT pay for the transplant, I take issue with that aspect of this. However, were I in a position to do so, I would not be averse to appealing to the public for donations to cover her transplant. Basically, I think that it is worth trying to save her life, but it's not the responsibility of the governemnt. The appeal should be made to the private sector and not to government.

ZV

What he said...


Lethal