^^^ I keep it real ^^^
I dunno, do you think all Middle Easteners Kill their wives just like all Americans kill their pets?
Personally, I'd call the perpetrators on both sides evil and leave everyone else out of it... But that's just me and my crazy rational brain..
I dunno, do you think all Middle Easteners Kill their wives just like all Americans kill their pets?
Personally, I'd call the perpetrators on both sides evil and leave everyone else out of it... But that's just me and my crazy rational brain..
You're such a liar, an ideologue, a monster. It's too much trouble to try to rebut so much of the poison you post.
Of course they have regard for their lives. *They are fighitng oppression*.
Your logic would say that all US soldiers who voluntarily place themselves in the military and combat situations where they can get killed don't have any reagrd for their lives.
So why should anyone else? You just advocated it's ok to kill all US soldiers, no problem.
Even if what you said were try which it isn't, if you see someone on a bridge, doyou push them off and say 'who cares' or try to save them because human life is valuable?
(Don't answer that. Let me think better of you.)
Did the Kamikazes in WWII have no regard for their lives - or did they believe that the defense of their homeland where they hoped one sacrifice might protect many more of their countrymen was worthwhile? You can harshly condemn the suicide bombers and not agree with your monstrous rationalization for dehumanizing a people and killing them.
We distribute videos calling for our kids to go on war missions for unjustified violence; we pay for all kinds of monstrous crimes.
You need to learn to take a little responsibility for your own side and not go around being a monster by dehumanizing others and advocating unjust violence.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
Sorry, but this has no precedence, anywhere. Not in the most patriotic war spurts has an American government made a TV show calling for its 10 years old to commit suicide against their enemies.
I don't revoke their right to fight what they think they unjust, I do think they should leave kids out of it, on both sides, and I think they should accept their responsibility for the outcome. They failed to do both.
So am I the monster, or the Hamas leader sending a 16 y/o to make a suicide bombing inside a crowd of other 16 years old?
Am I the monster, or the one who flies a passenger jet into a skyscraper for some political goal?
Sorry if I don't see such people as part of the human race. I think differently, I act differently, and I cherish different things. If, for you, having 2 arms, 2 legs and an upright stance is enough to qualify as a member of the human race, you might as well go and reproduce with a Chimpanzee. I doubt the offspring will be too genetically diverse anyway.
SandEagle
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2007
- 16,809
- 13
- 0
israel admits that they knew no hostile fire coming from school:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wv0giW1elo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wv0giW1elo
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
You probably speak different English than I do, because from what I've seen, the Israeli representative never said no shots were fired. He was debating with the interviewer about whether ground troops under fire should return fire to the source even if that was a UN building.
Now, please explain the rational about bluntly lying about a video you posted the link to. Do you count on most people to skip watching it and just take your summary as granted?
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
- 3
- 0
Answer my reply to you... about murdering children in a school... your bias is disgusting..
might want to lookup the creation of Israel and the Jewish Terrorist Organizations that murdered British Soldiers and UN peacekeepers.. if you think they are so righteous
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
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They aren't righteous at all, but how does that help solving present day problems? Do you think Israel could be dissolved for the wrongs done to the Palestinians 50 years ago? Such thinking will make this conflict last forever.
Our 'GI Joe' dolls for boys are a lot closer to promoting the similar wrongs of unjust violence, planting the romanticization of war, than you might realize of want to admit, but the blindness caused by cultural myopia, being too close to the trees to see the forest, might make you thing the differences are more significant than they are.
But yes, I condemn the seducing of 10 year olds to war whether suicide or not.
Except that when it suits your convenice, you pretend that it's two equal military sides, you pretend they have any options for actually fighting what they think unjust.
Israel has the luxury of not having any pressure to militarize its children since they have the luxury of vast military resources, courtesy of me and other Americans.
Our disagreement is not about the wrong in the Palestenian culture of militarizing children. It's about the one-sidedness of your only condemning half the problem.
Is Hitler the monster, or his arvh-enemy Stalin the monster? (Answer: both are).
When you support a regime that *allies* with Saddam as he gasses Iranian children when it suits their purpose, and then goes to war against him when it suits their interests, creating a foreign military presence in the heart of Muslim's homeland, are you right to *only* start keeping score when those wrongs have the backlash of a radical Muslim group attack that regime with a terrorist attack, as if it was for no reason, "some political goal"?
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed by our actions with the embargo count for zero, but you keep score when the violence changes direction. You are both monsters.
That's because you are not in the same desperate situations you place others in. You have the luxury, the arrogance and the corruption of the more powerful society.
Why are they not part of the human race for their wrongs, but those who kill two million Vietnamese for no good reason are part of the human race?
No, you don't. That's the sad thing about your blindness. Where is your moral outrage about the victims I mention above and many others for which the US has responsibility?
Missing, because of your blindness when the tables are turned.
I'm not saying you are recognizing evil and choosing it; rather, you are blind to it.
Oh, I avoid the hyperbole you indulge in that people who do evil are not human. I not only include the oppressed Palestenians who do so, I even include you in it, barely.
When you find you are making such an ass of yourself as to try to make attacks calling someone monkey like, you should realize it's in your interest to put down the keyboard.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
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Well dear Mr. Craig234,
I do believe your intents are good (although your posts are generally quite tedious). However, I honestly think you have no grasp of reality, and more importantly, the reality of war. You just labeled every major political figure of the last century, save for Ghandi, a "Monster". The truth is that Saddam was a monster, and Iranians were (and still are) monsters, and that every American president committed, by orders, horrible things. Israel isn't clean, obviously, and has done its fair part of fuckups.
The thing you seem to overlook is that it's the way of reality. It's not one rogue country or establishment, that's how mankind goes about his business. Stalin, Hitler, GWB and GW Senior, Nixon, Churchill, Johnson, The Japense caesar, Chinese officials, Iran, Iraq, King Hussein and his father, Mubarak, Sharon, Rabin, Arafat, Castro, you name it. No one can escape - they all done horrific things to other human beings, directly or through subordinates.
At this point, one should ask, "Are these people all this bad, or is this just the nature of mankind?". I suggest the latter. Wars will be fought, people will die. The least we could do is try to keep children out of it, and to advise anyone who plans on going out and fight to be smart rather than just - and that includes the Palestinians, who fight now for much longer than they had to, just because of the international cheerleader squad encouraging them to go on and on with their righteous struggle.
I do believe your intents are good (although your posts are generally quite tedious). However, I honestly think you have no grasp of reality, and more importantly, the reality of war. You just labeled every major political figure of the last century, save for Ghandi, a "Monster". The truth is that Saddam was a monster, and Iranians were (and still are) monsters, and that every American president committed, by orders, horrible things. Israel isn't clean, obviously, and has done its fair part of fuckups.
The thing you seem to overlook is that it's the way of reality. It's not one rogue country or establishment, that's how mankind goes about his business. Stalin, Hitler, GWB and GW Senior, Nixon, Churchill, Johnson, The Japense caesar, Chinese officials, Iran, Iraq, King Hussein and his father, Mubarak, Sharon, Rabin, Arafat, Castro, you name it. No one can escape - they all done horrific things to other human beings, directly or through subordinates.
At this point, one should ask, "Are these people all this bad, or is this just the nature of mankind?". I suggest the latter. Wars will be fought, people will die. The least we could do is try to keep children out of it, and to advise anyone who plans on going out and fight to be smart rather than just - and that includes the Palestinians, who fight now for much longer than they had to, just because of the international cheerleader squad encouraging them to go on and on with their righteous struggle.
LOL
Do you honestly believe that anyone, anywhere, is fighting because we're posting on an internet message board? No that can't be it. You don't think that. You think something else. Explain it to me again please. Show me the Hamas international cheerleading squad.
Google turns up nothing.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
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Nope, the bad ones and the Swedes, British, UN security council, and so on who publicly support their struggle while condemning Israel. They see Israel gets hit on the nose every time it retaliates against them and interpret it is active support.
Ozoned
Diamond Member
- Mar 22, 2004
- 5,578
- 0
- 0
It's funny that you use the phrase "hit on the nose", the sort of thing you do to a puppy when it pees on the rug. Not something you do to cause harm, only to correct an unwanted behavior. Not really too far from "slap on the wrist" is it?
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
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Yep. Can't say either of those did anything considerable, but then, how can Sweden put pressure on Israel? Very little trading, and Swedish folks don't come across as avid Israel fans anyway.
When Hamas does its publicity stunts, it doesn't target the governments and politicians. Those already have an agenda. They are aiming towards the misguided do-gooders of the world.
I strongly disagree with and disapprove of your amorality. Your morals extend no further, in this post, than being one thug tribal leader who simply prefers your own tribal interests.
I did not condemn every major leader of the 20th century; that's a false statement you make because it convenientily sets up a straw man for you to attack.
I'm also willing to cut some slack to leaders who have limited options, who are countering a wrong, and so on. Some, not complete.
For an example of a leader who I am not condemning, while he has some black marks, overall President Kennedy was a great force for peace in the world.
I could go on at some length - people who don't have a comic book level reading approach tend not to find the info tedious - but I'll just summarize it that way for now. Everyone you listed, though, would be on the list, with the possible exceptions of Rabin for his apparently sincere efforts at peace, and I'm not sure, but possibly Arafat had come around to pursue peace later on, while he can be condemned for earlier terrorism. Some were a mixes bag, ending one form of evil while adding another, if soemtimes lesser, form. Some stumbled into the violence through misjudgement, while others rushed willingly with the violence in clear sight.
There's an old saying that all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I can't say you are a good man, though I don't see you intending evil, but you are the man who does nothing good, in my view. The man who demands the acceptance of violence, wrongly, whatever words you dress that up in. You are the voice who would have fought earlier battles for justice, too.
We agree that there has been a hell of a lot of unjust violence, but I'm against that, while you are accepting of it. I'm its passionate opponent, and yours, while you say the above.
You are quite wrong when you discuss your speculation about my understanding of 'real politik', and your wrongness should give you pause about the accuracy of your other views.
But we both know the odds you will notice that. What is clear, however, is your clear lack of evidence for the claim. Nothing in my posts denies the violence that has happened.
What it does do, just as people once accepted segregation and slavery, is to say it's intolerable and our culture needs to evolve and stop accepting it.
Go read Chris Hedges' "War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning" for some understanding of the sort of societal mass hysteria that supports war excessively. Or maybe it's a bother.
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2006
- 4,506
- 0
- 76
fuck you.
"thought" are you fucking kidding me.
if I put a dead body in front of you and tell you its dead, and its been dead for a while, and smells like crap, you are the kind of person that will say, the guy is not dead, he is just sleeping and didnt shower for a while.
honestly, first of all, Israel did not try and bomb the building, they were being fired on by a person near the building, they attacked that, and since hamas kept missiles INSIDE of the building, they exploded and destroyed the building.
secondly, it talked about a building was bombed with children on the roof. hey Guess the fuck what I bet you didnt know, didnt listen to, or denied.
those children were the children of a terrorist. as some may know israel has been sending phone calls to the civilians telling them to leave before israel attacks, one of the phone calls was sent to a terrorist by accident, and then they purposely stayed in the building
for fuck sake, get your bias fucking mind of the fucking shit your face is stuck in and look at reality
Another example of the moral failures of many in our society. You may as well be a Nazi.
A rose by any other name...
What if it means terrorizing the other side's civilian population, killing their children, to create pressure from them against their own government, when you have nothing else?
If you don't agree with that, you just reversed your position, and if you do, you just said you agree with terrorism. Actually you said worse, since you just use it carelessly.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
NO personally I could not kill children or civilians in an attemp to kill combatants.
War is hell but this is not war. In war, you attack a foriegn country attacking military targets. Any time there is no organized compounded/based military to attack it becomes a police action and you cannot hold civilians accountable for the actions of combatants. This is difficult but necessary to avoid personally engaging in war crimes.
If someone is firing from a school at my house then I would leave and call the police. The term collateral damage is for those that donot pull the trigger.
War is hell but this is not war. In war, you attack a foriegn country attacking military targets. Any time there is no organized compounded/based military to attack it becomes a police action and you cannot hold civilians accountable for the actions of combatants. This is difficult but necessary to avoid personally engaging in war crimes.
If someone is firing from a school at my house then I would leave and call the police. The term collateral damage is for those that donot pull the trigger.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
What "police" are the Israeli troops going to call, and wtf could any police do to stop Hamas from firing?
Remember, these are not criminals taking hostages and making reasonable demands on otherwise peaceful streets... these are terrorists who want you, and every policeman who may show up, dead. They also thrive on civilian carnage.
Your analogy is one big fail.
As most armed conflicts are in the last 50 have been police actions. Even Iraq ceased to be a war after a week. A police action is defined as engaging enemy combatants that have infiltrated into a civilian population.
Your attempt at being a human being "is one big fail".
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