World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

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manko

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,846
1
0
Originally posted by: Walzber813
I've heard rumor of a 25 man (heroic type) Naxx :D Has anyone else heard anything about this.
Jeffrey Kaplan, Lead Designer at BlizzCon:

What I want to do in Northrend is to take Naxxramas in all of its glory, scale it down to the 25 man raid size, and then take the difficulty and retune it?obviously we?d tune for level 80, it would no longer be tuned for level 60, since that would be a little silly and it wouldn?t be a lot of fun for people at that point?but I want to put rewards in there that are very exciting to level 80 players, but make it the entry-level raid, very accessible, tune the encounters so that there?s something for everybody to do.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Yeah, they pretty much realized, "Crap, everyone thinks Naxxramas was our best... let's just reuse it!" "You mean a couple textures or maybe some models?" "Hell no, son, I want to reuse the entire instance!" "Bold... Jeff, you bold"
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126

Yep, crap we put out a good instance just before we released a level raising expansion and everyone pretty much stopped raiding and left it alone so we'll re-release it as a level 80 encounter :)
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
I played DAOC for 4 years because at that time no other MMO was good that existed, turns out Warhammer comes out and still no good MMO exists for pvp. Eve online is the exception, but I'm not to keen on the skill training system they use.

I been watching all the warhammer videos I can find online, everything points to FUN FEST!
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: imaheadcase
I played DAOC for 4 years because at that time no other MMO was good that existed, turns out Warhammer comes out and still no good MMO exists for pvp. Eve online is the exception, but I'm not to keen on the skill training system they use.

I been watching all the warhammer videos I can find online, everything points to FUN FEST!
No offense to you or anyone else who really enjoys pvp, but I am really looking forward to Warhammer's release for one reason. That reason is the hope that a ton of the lolpvpers leave WoW and the endless complaining about balancing WoW for pvp gets reduced. I can't count the number of times the PvE aspect of WoW was nerfed in some way due to an attempt to balance the PvP aspect.
 

BZeto

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2002
2,428
0
76
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: imaheadcase
I played DAOC for 4 years because at that time no other MMO was good that existed, turns out Warhammer comes out and still no good MMO exists for pvp. Eve online is the exception, but I'm not to keen on the skill training system they use.

I been watching all the warhammer videos I can find online, everything points to FUN FEST!
No offense to you or anyone else who really enjoys pvp, but I am really looking forward to Warhammer's release for one reason. That reason is the hope that a ton of the lolpvpers leave WoW and the endless complaining about balancing WoW for pvp gets reduced. I can't count the number of times the PvE aspect of WoW was nerfed in some way due to an attempt to balance the PvP aspect.
If anything, Blizzard will build up the pvp aspect even more with Warhammer's release.

 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: BZeto
If anything, Blizzard will build up the pvp aspect even more with Warhammer's release.
That is certainly possible looking at it from a competitive view point. We'll see. Blizz has a tendency to keep their games the way that they "intend" for them to be. I see them use that word quite a bit. When I went to Blizzcon, they emphasized that they were quite pleased with PvP after they finished tweaking BC. They recognize that there are a few more issues to work out, but that's it for now. Money does talk though. I realize that one.
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: BZeto
If anything, Blizzard will build up the pvp aspect even more with Warhammer's release.
That is certainly possible looking at it from a competitive view point. We'll see. Blizz has a tendency to keep their games the way that they "intend" for them to be. I see them use that word quite a bit. When I went to Blizzcon, they emphasized that they were quite pleased with PvP after they finished tweaking BC. They recognize that there are a few more issues to work out, but that's it for now. Money does talk though. I realize that one.
"quite pleased with pvp"

That's why I'll be playing Warhammer. TBC ruined PvP for me. Duels with rewards is about as dumbed down as you could possibly make it, even FPSs have more complex PvP. I understand the reason why arenas were done; the average WoW player doesn't have the mental capacity to understand battleground strategy including the importance of flags, and Blizzard is a smart business, meaning they give the customer what he wants. I also understand the problem with AV afkers getting the same rewards as those who actually play... but I played & enjoyed it... I earned my honor playing in AB & WSG, not playing in mindless zergfests (AV, and to a lesser extent EotS) or afk'ing. That's gone now, so I guess I am too.
 

JohnAn2112

Diamond Member
May 8, 2003
4,895
1
81
I wonder how this Death Knight thing will work. Will all classes be able to become Death Knights? This might be an excuse to level my paladin so I can have a Holy Paladin Death Knight. :)
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Originally posted by: JohnAn2112
I wonder how this Death Knight thing will work. Will all classes be able to become Death Knights? This might be an excuse to level my paladin so I can have a Holy Paladin Death Knight. :)
The Death Knight is a completely separate character and does not require a specific class. You must complete a quest line to unlock the class though.

Oh and I think PVP could be much worse in WoW... I don't really mind it, but it is a bit disheartening being on lame PUGs that are completely useless in that no one will listen even if you try to lead. They want you to find groups, but not everyone wants to PVP and even if so, a good group make-up is practically necessary. I think it's possible that PUGs will be getting better when voice is implemented in game as people may realize "oh hai, if I say something, things are communicated much faster," or we'll just get the murloc game in audio or lame Chuck Norris jokes...
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
...when voice is implemented in game...
This is the equivalent of putting laser beams on the heads of the sharks WoW is jumping over. Now instead of watching them type "Loelz 2 y wut ur plz b!1!!1!" I have to hear their high whiny 12 year old voices? No thanks. I didn't mind using it in guild raids, but not in pugs.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
Originally posted by: CKent
This is the equivalent of putting laser beams on the heads of the sharks WoW is jumping over. Now instead of watching them type "Loelz 2 y wut ur plz b!1!!1!" I have to hear their high whiny 12 year old voices? No thanks. I didn't mind using it in guild raids, but not in pugs.
Then don't?
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
5,095
1
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka

Oh and I think PVP could be much worse in WoW... I don't really mind it, but it is a bit disheartening being on lame PUGs that are completely useless in that no one will listen even if you try to lead. They want you to find groups, but not everyone wants to PVP and even if so, a good group make-up is practically necessary. I think it's possible that PUGs will be getting better when voice is implemented in game as people may realize "oh hai, if I say something, things are communicated much faster," or we'll just get the murloc game in audio or lame Chuck Norris jokes...
I love the battleground pvp, but it's pretty much worthless now. I don't see why they had to make arenas the be all and end all of high end pvp. If I wanted to deathmatch over and over again I'd be playing an FPS. And I won't even get into the class imbalances (poor hunters, I used to hate them now I just feel sorry for them :().

So I cancelled my account. I'll consider coming back if they fix pvp before warhammer comes out.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,080
507
126
One nice thing they are doing, is allowing Arena 1 gear to be purchaseable via honor when season 3 starts. Season 3 starts when patch 2.3 is deployed.

Time to start saving lots of honor and cash for enchants :D
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
One nice thing they are doing, is allowing Arena 1 gear to be purchaseable via honor when season 3 starts. Season 3 starts when patch 2.3 is deployed.

Time to start saving lots of honor and cash for enchants :D
I think they should've really put those in the honor system when Arena season 2 started. The big problem I have on some of my characters is finding good gear for their builds.. well, there are some PVE pieces that I could grab for Karazhan, but for an Enhancement shaman... who the hell wants them in end-game PVE? I still think Blizzard has trees designated as PVE or PVP.

Originally posted by: ggnl
I love the battleground pvp, but it's pretty much worthless now. I don't see why they had to make arenas the be all and end all of high end pvp. If I wanted to deathmatch over and over again I'd be playing an FPS. And I won't even get into the class imbalances (poor hunters, I used to hate them now I just feel sorry for them :().

So I cancelled my account. I'll consider coming back if they fix pvp before warhammer comes out.
Well, hunters are still one of the worst classes to go up against in PVP if they're a Beast Mastery hunter. There's no other class in WoW that can effectively turn the tides of a battle on any class and instantly grab control. It's amusing as Blizzard says the warlock is the number one dueling class, but with Beastial Wrath on a 2 minute cooldown, how is that not tailored toward dueling with the relatively short cooldown. The only class I have that wins against a BM hunter is my rogue and that's because he runs away from them once they BW. Everyone else dies ~_~.

I don't mind Arena so much although I don't do it. I don't feel like finding a team, I just want to PVP a bit. I can't stand PVPing a lot though, especially after I spent so long PVPing on my priest. The past AV weekend, I was PVPing on my Shaman and Mage at the same time... god, that wore me out so bad just trying to focus on two different characters (even in the same AV, but sometimes I got different AVs :().

About fixing, as Gen said, they will be making S1 arena gear available for normal honor points (probably a metric ass-ton). Also hey, everyone needs to PVP and pick up the 3 non-set epics!
 

kainlongshot

Member
May 18, 2007
55
0
0
I don't think battlegrounds are completely worthless. As a matter of fact I feel they are more like training grounds for eventual pvp encounters. Sure the dynamics are different and a lot more people are involved but what better way to learn your class's limitations then by doing pvp via battlegrounds. For the most part, its fast with many different scenarios.

However I do feel that battlegrounds and world pvp are severely lacking. In that they really don't pose any concern to the outside world. Lets say Ally wins AB or AV. Shouldn't something happen outside that not only signals a win but has some incentive? Maybe a battleground is won and the adjacent town is now under Ally or horde control, offering quests and turns that would otherwise not be accessible had the other team won. That's what I'm talking about. If there was some incentive or world repercussions then maybe we wouldn't have so many AV hoppers.

I'm still not convinced that world pvp is complete. What I really want is something similar to Dynasty Warriors or DOTA. AB and Av are close but not in the same sense of scale. What I want is something that has battle lines put in place. I know I am rapidly moving off topic but think about this:

Assuming the land is still heavily contested in the mid section of Northrend:

There are a set of uphill cities and outposts between the Ally side and Horde side. Each city and outpost will include its own forces. Ally will move in to take as many of the cities as possible. The same with the Horde. As forces start to converge a real battle line is formed. Now you got this tug of war going on. A variable force will be dispatched through the controlled section of land. Nothing overpowered but more for preventing major flanking formations. For example, elven rangers would be scattered around the ally controlled section of the map. The number and skill rating of these defense forces will be at its toughest closest to the main cities (the 2 cities farthest apart from each other) and will wane as it approaches the 2 cities closest to each other. This will help in temporarily garrisoning the cites making the last city the toughest to break through while still allow the weakest center outposts to tip back and forth.

Whats the incentive? Why should I have to fight for this land? Offer quests that will require raiding cities, make incentives through rewards and scripted sequences. Perhaps the horde is laying siege to the last city and the alliance is mustering as many of its forces to hold the line. Like an instance raid have it fully reset by some cataclysmic scripted event at some designated time. The "Hand of Arthas" comes down like the plague and attempts to clear the forces of Northrend. The land is reset after so many days after a defeat of one of the major cities.

Just something I thought about. . .



 

Vortex22

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2000
4,976
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Supposedly the prices for the items will be 15K/piece
The prices for the blue PvP set items, which are extremely inferior to S1 gladiator are 15-20k a piece, so unless they get a massive drop I don't know how accurate that info is.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Originally posted by: kainlongshot
I don't think battlegrounds are completely worthless. As a matter of fact I feel they are more like training grounds for eventual pvp encounters. Sure the dynamics are different and a lot more people are involved but what better way to learn your class's limitations then by doing pvp via battlegrounds. For the most part, its fast with many different scenarios.
They can be. I mean, people wonder why I can play almost any class and do pretty well... it's because I've played battlegrounds so much and I've watched what other classes do to me and what I do to other classes and I can use those for or against them. That's why I've always pressed the idea of playing and understanding every class. It's kind of like how my friend was explaining DOTA to me the other day, "You can't really do well until you know what every hero's weakness and advantages are"

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
However I do feel that battlegrounds and world pvp are severely lacking. In that they really don't pose any concern to the outside world. Lets say Ally wins AB or AV. Shouldn't something happen outside that not only signals a win but has some incentive? Maybe a battleground is won and the adjacent town is now under Ally or horde control, offering quests and turns that would otherwise not be accessible had the other team won. That's what I'm talking about. If there was some incentive or world repercussions then maybe we wouldn't have so many AV hoppers.
I agree and I honestly think Blizzard agrees too. The issue with what you're presenting with battlegrounds is that there's no clear server when it comes to a battleground. Also, a battleground can have multiple instances of itself going on, so you'll only get a quick sense of victory if you win and then another BG ends with your side losing. From what I remember of their PVP panel, Blizzard thinks the only decent world PVP event right now is the Terokkar Forest Bone Wastes towers event to give spirit shards in Auchindoun. Their belief is that the benefit is long lasting enough and provides a direct reward to completing the objective. Personally, I've never done anything with the spirit towers as I just don't care :p.

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
I'm still not convinced that world pvp is complete. What I really want is something similar to Dynasty Warriors or DOTA. AB and Av are close but not in the same sense of scale. What I want is something that has battle lines put in place. I know I am rapidly moving off topic but think about this:
Not sure you could adapt a Dynasty Warriors like situation in WoW. The problem is, some classes don't do well with fighting multiple opponents like you see in DW. A Warrior would be great at this. The only thing I could think of is getting energy/rage/mana for killing a mob (or being in a group that kills a mob or whatever).

Originally posted by: kainlongshot
Assuming the land is still heavily contested in the mid section of Northrend:

There are a set of uphill cities and outposts between the Ally side and Horde side. Each city and outpost will include its own forces. Ally will move in to take as many of the cities as possible. The same with the Horde. As forces start to converge a real battle line is formed. Now you got this tug of war going on. A variable force will be dispatched through the controlled section of land. Nothing overpowered but more for preventing major flanking formations. For example, elven rangers would be scattered around the ally controlled section of the map. The number and skill rating of these defense forces will be at its toughest closest to the main cities (the 2 cities farthest apart from each other) and will wane as it approaches the 2 cities closest to each other. This will help in temporarily garrisoning the cites making the last city the toughest to break through while still allow the weakest center outposts to tip back and forth.

Whats the incentive? Why should I have to fight for this land? Offer quests that will require raiding cities, make incentives through rewards and scripted sequences. Perhaps the horde is laying siege to the last city and the alliance is mustering as many of its forces to hold the line. Like an instance raid have it fully reset by some cataclysmic scripted event at some designated time. The "Hand of Arthas" comes down like the plague and attempts to clear the forces of Northrend. The land is reset after so many days after a defeat of one of the major cities.
Well I know Blizzard said the mid-section will be contested no matter what type of server you're on. I'd say the only hard part about this would be controlling all the scripted action. Also, the quests would probably become daily quests in which they'd probably be just another rep grind :(. The problem with that would be that another rep grind would make people stop once everything's done... unless honor is also awarded as they could be daily pvp quests, as I believe Blizzard said they were implementing those.
 

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