World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

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ivan2

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2000
5,808
0
0
www.heatware.com
I think the level cap is a turn off to new players because now lvl 1-70 contents will be ghost towns like how 1-60 is right now. But if they let me choose to either spend time leveling from 70-80, or spend time raiding endless dungeons for loots, I will choose leveling myself. At least the new skill and public areas offers more curiousity and excitment. And I have more freedom.
 

caivoma

Senior member
Sep 3, 2004
957
0
0
Originally posted by: Vortex22
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Vortex22
Originally posted by: caivoma
I quited Wow a while ago along with a bunch of people from my guild. I will get the expansion and it will be fun for a while but i doubt that anything will change with WOW, i.e. : raid or else.
Err, that's not even how it is now. You raid if you want to get the best PvE gear and you do arenas if you want the best PvP gear. Top end raiders can't dominate PvP like they did in the past and vice versa.
actually most of the people who have 2000+ arena ratings also are in raiding guilds that are pretty damn progressed

same as it has always been
I'm in a 2000+ arena team and I'm unguilded.
You must be good as a pvper. My server blows donkey balls as arena pvp goes (Horde on Lothar PVE). And most of the team are guild teams.
When this xpac come out, the Outland will probably be like Azeroth and Kalimdor now, with nobody except people who try to level up to 70.
In the end, i will probably buy it if my friends buy it unless they decided to move on to Warhammer.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Originally posted by: Anubis
during my run to GM, most of the people i ran with were also in a raiding guild, myself included, we raided 4 days a week and were into Naxx with everything besides C'thun down when i hit GM, most of the others that hit it on that server were the same way, there were 3 from the top Horde guild and they were even more progressed then we were, and then there were a few that just PVPed and never slept
Back on LB, you never could've done that... you literally had to PVP every day for a decent number of hours or you'd never see GM. That's why people could never raid... there simply was no time to do it and achieve a high PVP Rank. I did the grind without a group and I played anywhere from 10 to 12 hours a day on my priest... it was hell.

People wonder why they got rid of that system :p.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: Drift3r
***Warning This Is Strictly My Own Opinion.***

Nothing like having to jump back into the same old tired hamster wheel to grind up another 10 levels to do what you were already doing 10 levels prior. Oh and no "new content" does not have equal a level cap increase before anyone else chimes in with "Thats how all MMO's are like.".

UO, DAOC, old-SWG, Saga of Ryzom, EVE etc.... are examples of how MMO's can offer up new content and rewarding content that does not require a jump into the hamster wheel of extra level grinding and then new faction grinding and then raid grinding. This expansion just proves that Blizzard learned nothing from BC IMHO. All that faction grinding and raid gear you got in BC is going to be worthless.

It would of been nice if they would of continued fleshing out the original world and made it worth going back too. There are so many areas where they could of improved the game and made it fun and rewarding without raising the level cap IMHO. PvP will also always remain a joke with no impact in the game world in WoW as usual. Thinking about the mindless grind in this expansion just makes me want to puke.

WoW = Waiting On Warhammer....at least for me it does.
Agreed! .. its one way for Blizzard to get more money out of WoW subscribers offer them a new EXP pack with save old grinding (another 10 levels) etc..nothing really new,no wonder I left after a few months what a waste of a game and time,SWG on the other hand had so much going for it until NGE came along,I'm also waiting for Warhammer Online,I may even try SWG for a month and see how it plays with latest changes etc/improvements if any..

 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
Well...that pretty much put the nail in the coffin for me. There is really no point in playing your current character to gear up, because you will advance 10 levels and leave your current gear behind and STILL be on par with those that raided forever. And simply put, I'm tired of the grind...the endless endless grind. New factions means any faction I get exalted with now will be useless once this hits. Very dumb...very very dumb. Waiting on Warhammer now. I know that will be another grind, but at least it will involve decent pvp.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
I guess i've never understood why people play a game and then when content is released they bitch and moan about it. Am i looking forward to the 10 level grind again? nope. But i am looking forward to new content in the 5-mans and 25-mans. I look at those and i kinda understand hwy you have to increase the level cap. Why? because if you just throw them in as level 70 instances nobody would run them cause the loot would be no better than you could get now. Much as i hate it i also understand why they have to do it as well.

And for those saying raiding is dead now blah blah. If you read the item panel discussion they said this time aorund T4 would be equal to around level 80 items. T5 mostly in the first raid (ie kara) and of course probably random blues you find at 80. And T6 would be lasting into the first 25 man. If they do it right thats a hell of a lot better than T2 replaced by 68 they had for BC. Of course you'll find random items that are probably better than some of your gear (ie moonkins where everything was an upgrade) but o well.

And i expect the raiding sence to be about the same as it was before BC. Your gonna have guilds who start pushing FAST into the new content to..well see it while its hard and fun. I know my guild started really pushing once they said when BC was coming out. We went strong with a good core till about a month before when finally people were starting the...gear is replaced so easy bs that didnt happen. It wasnt until everyone saw the items that they would get that people stopped raiding.


And as for the old pvp system....worst thing ever. You miss one day and your screwed for the week. Miss more than one day and you were down a rank and gonna have to spend another 3 weeks to get that rank. Maybe it was just my server but it was long, hard, boring, and you couldnt raid if you wanted FM or GM.


That is my opinion...will i spend money and buy it? i'm not sure but its not cause I'm going OMG new content so now all my exalted reps are pointless!
 

Vortex22

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2000
4,976
0
0
The gear replacement isn't going to be as drastic as the first transition from WoW 1.0 to BC because they aren't changing the value of any stats like they did previously (i.e. tons more stam on new items).
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,080
507
126
BOOOOOORING!

Gives me an idea on how many months I have left in this game however. My account will be closed as soon to the release of this garbage as possible. WoW does stand for Waiting on Warhammer for me as well.
 

MemoryInAGarden

Senior member
Oct 26, 2003
849
0
71
Why are players, especially long time players, complaining about Azeroth being a ghost land now? I've been playing since April 2005, and the least thing I want to do is go back and farm a zone that I've seen for the last year or more.

All of this old content nostalgia seems to ignore the fact that the old zones weren't really all that great, especially at their inception. Anyone remember the first incarnation of Ragnaros? Unkillable. Nefarian? Unkillable. C'Thun? Unkillable. While Vashj was unkillable for a little while, she wasn't bugged as long as these others were. I guess you people never farmed consumables for Loatheb, or saw the utter useless of crafting skills outside of a few niche items.

Remember all that fire resistance gear you had to farm for tanks and rogues, and, to a lesser extent, the entire raid, for Rag and Vael? How about all the nature resistance for Huhuran and the frost resistance for Sapphiron? Oh, anyone remember how painful it was to bring up the slow side of your server during the AQ war effort? How many TENS OF THOUSANDS of Peacebloom people were farming, and all the jacked up prices on the low level trade skill items? Who here grinded 16+ hours a day in the BGs only to have that botter beat you by a few thousand honor? Or worse, to see people practically GIVEN your armor a few months down the line in the PVP overhaul?

This is the WoW 1.0 I remember, and while I'd love to go back to some of it, the game has gotten better, not worse. All the people who started after TBC love to whine about the emptiness of Azeroth, but they don't seem to realize how many of us were hassled and bored with Azeroth and just want to progress.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
Originally posted by: MemoryInAGarden
Why are players, especially long time players, complaining about Azeroth being a ghost land now? I've been playing since April 2005, and the least thing I want to do is go back and farm a zone that I've seen for the last year or more.

All of this old content nostalgia seems to ignore the fact that the old zones weren't really all that great, especially at their inception. Anyone remember the first incarnation of Ragnaros? Unkillable. Nefarian? Unkillable. C'Thun? Unkillable. While Vashj was unkillable for a little while, she wasn't bugged as long as these others were. I guess you people never farmed consumables for Loatheb, or saw the utter useless of crafting skills outside of a few niche items.

Remember all that fire resistance gear you had to farm for tanks and rogues, and, to a lesser extent, the entire raid, for Rag and Vael? How about all the nature resistance for Huhuran and the frost resistance for Sapphiron? Oh, anyone remember how painful it was to bring up the slow side of your server during the AQ war effort? How many TENS OF THOUSANDS of Peacebloom people were farming, and all the jacked up prices on the low level trade skill items? Who here grinded 16+ hours a day in the BGs only to have that botter beat you by a few thousand honor? Or worse, to see people practically GIVEN your armor a few months down the line in the PVP overhaul?

This is the WoW 1.0 I remember, and while I'd love to go back to some of it, the game has gotten better, not worse. All the people who started after TBC love to whine about the emptiness of Azeroth, but they don't seem to realize how many of us were hassled and bored with Azeroth and just want to progress.
I think you missed the point. We are complaining Azeroth being a ghost town because there are aspects of it which could easily be developed, but weren't. There SHOULD be a reason to be in Azeroth besides the auction house. Blizzard killed 75% of the land that exists in their own game world because they refuse to develop it further. At level 70, am I gonna go back to the barrens? Hell no, thats not what I'm looking for. But what about Grim Batol? (The red dragon area.) That place is just...dead. Nothing. Places like that still exist, but for some odd reason blizzard said "screw that."

As for the expansion and Items...there is seriously no reason to play at the moment. As a casual, ALL of my gear will be replaced by level 80...even if I went into Kara with the rest of my guild, the first few level 80 5-mans will replace my "epic" gear. What incentive do I have to play given the fact that I will never ever see black temple? I find kara and pvp fun, but only because there is a sort of light at the end of my tunnel. Blizzard pretty much put out that light. Now what do I do? Grinding for rep is useless, as is pvp grinding. Kara will be replaced...there is simply no incentive anymore.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,187
3,981
136
Originally posted by: FallenHero
...there is simply no incentive anymore.
It's simple. Your problem is that your incentive is based on the acquisition of the best (or the best obtainable for you) gear - which is extremely common. However, in a game that is always getting larger, casuals will rarely (only toward the end of an "era" i.e. when no expansions/new content have been added for some time) be able to get to that point. Essentially, as a casual in an MMO you're always playing catch up.. getting close, and then new content comes out. To be honest, WoW has done pretty well for casuals as far as allowing them to gear up pretty well. Sometimes you just need to play the game to have fun and let the gear sorta fall by the wayside .. which is really difficult.
 

MemoryInAGarden

Senior member
Oct 26, 2003
849
0
71
Originally posted by: FallenHero
I think you missed the point. We are complaining Azeroth being a ghost town because there are aspects of it which could easily be developed, but weren't. There SHOULD be a reason to be in Azeroth besides the auction house. Blizzard killed 75% of the land that exists in their own game world because they refuse to develop it further. At level 70, am I gonna go back to the barrens? Hell no, thats not what I'm looking for. But what about Grim Batol? (The red dragon area.) That place is just...dead. Nothing. Places like that still exist, but for some odd reason blizzard said "screw that."

As for the expansion and Items...there is seriously no reason to play at the moment. As a casual, ALL of my gear will be replaced by level 80...even if I went into Kara with the rest of my guild, the first few level 80 5-mans will replace my "epic" gear. What incentive do I have to play given the fact that I will never ever see black temple? I find kara and pvp fun, but only because there is a sort of light at the end of my tunnel. Blizzard pretty much put out that light. Now what do I do? Grinding for rep is useless, as is pvp grinding. Kara will be replaced...there is simply no incentive anymore.
There are plans to revitalize Azeroth with this new expansion. What that means, who knows, but there are a ton of places like Grim Batol that exist, but would likely be turned into major raiding hubs if they were fully developed. I would like to see some of these zones take shape, but isn't new content still new content no matter whether it's in Azeroth or on continent #3426? I think they tried to get people back to Azeroth with CoT, but this just turned into a nuisance. The two new cities in the old world are deserted. They haven't found a way to make Azeroth viable again without being an inconvenience. There are lots of things that could be done in Azeroth, but I don't want it to develop into the hub again.

If there is no reason to play because your gear is going to be useless at some indefinite point when the next expansion is released, why did you not feel the same way the day you picked the game up? After all, there was already something beyond the horizon then.

It doesn't take that long to master Kara provided you have ten halfway competent people, of the right class balance, with two hours or so to devote to a raid a couple of times a week. With the exception of a few fights, Zul'Gurub was harder, required more people, and was longer. People really didn't complain about ZG though.t. After all, it's just a game, and if for you the loot is both the means and the end and you can't have any fun actually GETTING the loot, then you really shouldn't be playing this or any other MMO.


 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: Drift3r
***Warning This Is Strictly My Own Opinion.***

Nothing like having to jump back into the same old tired hamster wheel to grind up another 10 levels to do what you were already doing 10 levels prior. Oh and no "new content" does not have equal a level cap increase before anyone else chimes in with "Thats how all MMO's are like.".

UO, DAOC, old-SWG, Saga of Ryzom, EVE etc.... are examples of how MMO's can offer up new content and rewarding content that does not require a jump into the hamster wheel of extra level grinding and then new faction grinding and then raid grinding. This expansion just proves that Blizzard learned nothing from BC IMHO. All that faction grinding and raid gear you got in BC is going to be worthless.

It would of been nice if they would of continued fleshing out the original world and made it worth going back too. There are so many areas where they could of improved the game and made it fun and rewarding without raising the level cap IMHO. PvP will also always remain a joke with no impact in the game world in WoW as usual. Thinking about the mindless grind in this expansion just makes me want to puke.

WoW = Waiting On Warhammer....at least for me it does.

Many people share your opinions and that's fine. While none of us MMO fans like to hear it, do not forget the two most important facts to consider:

1. If you don't have fun playing a game then don't play it. There are other MMOs and different games out there for you to play. You already mentioned many of them.

2. Blizzard sees their game as a success overall. The numbers prove that people have enough fun playing it to justify the time and money they spend on it. Otherwise, they would quit.


Other than those two points I will say that I was fortunate enough to get tickets and attend Blizzcon. They explained in great detail just about every aspect of the development of the game and had Q&A sessions after each of their presentations. They do listen to the people's individual opinions and suggestions, but in the end they are going to do what they feel is best for the game. Part of that includes keeping the game as they intend it to be. It is their creation after all. They own it. Therefore, they have the right to do as they please even if it is you that is paying $15 a month just like you have the right to stop paying $15 a month at any time.

Personally, I like leveling. I like grinding my rep to a degree. While it did bother me at first that my hard earned epics became worthless almost overnight, that feeling was short lived after I realized that I was still having a lot of fun playing.

Anyways, I am not trying to disrespect your opinion or anything. I can understand if you feel WoW is the best thing out there until something better comes out. I just wanted to point out some simple facts about WoW and playing games in general that many people seem to forget way too often.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: MemoryInAGarden
Why are players, especially long time players, complaining about Azeroth being a ghost land now? I've been playing since April 2005, and the least thing I want to do is go back and farm a zone that I've seen for the last year or more.

All of this old content nostalgia seems to ignore the fact that the old zones weren't really all that great, especially at their inception. Anyone remember the first incarnation of Ragnaros? Unkillable. Nefarian? Unkillable. C'Thun? Unkillable. While Vashj was unkillable for a little while, she wasn't bugged as long as these others were. I guess you people never farmed consumables for Loatheb, or saw the utter useless of crafting skills outside of a few niche items.

Remember all that fire resistance gear you had to farm for tanks and rogues, and, to a lesser extent, the entire raid, for Rag and Vael? How about all the nature resistance for Huhuran and the frost resistance for Sapphiron? Oh, anyone remember how painful it was to bring up the slow side of your server during the AQ war effort? How many TENS OF THOUSANDS of Peacebloom people were farming, and all the jacked up prices on the low level trade skill items? Who here grinded 16+ hours a day in the BGs only to have that botter beat you by a few thousand honor? Or worse, to see people practically GIVEN your armor a few months down the line in the PVP overhaul?

This is the WoW 1.0 I remember, and while I'd love to go back to some of it, the game has gotten better, not worse. All the people who started after TBC love to whine about the emptiness of Azeroth, but they don't seem to realize how many of us were hassled and bored with Azeroth and just want to progress.
Loatheb farming wasn't as bad as BC farming before the nerfs.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
The *only* thing I don't like about the expansion is the level cap raise. i think it's too soon and will render all BC raid instances obsolete.
 

kainlongshot

Member
May 18, 2007
55
0
0
I will have to agree with the earlier statement above. When a game starts to mimic a job than its no longer a game. I like to level as well. I like seeing patches (nerfs or buffs). I like being able to know more about the story line (whether some argue it exists or not). I just enjoy playing.

I've seen other games that are harsher when an expansions come out. Some that not only dramatically change the game play mechanics but make many items and areas "completely" obsolete. You got to keep in mind an MMO is not designed to "end". I give a lot of respect to people who are diligent at doing what they do best (pvp, raiding, pve'ing, etc). However you had to have known this kinda thing happens. Your armor is never going to stay l33t, it will eventually need to be surpassed by something else, otherwise why would we ever play. Thats that an MMO is . . . a constant uphill climb. Enjoy the journey, friend, not the treasure hunt. I guarantee that you'll have more "fun" that way. Just like in life, when you reach the top of one mountain, there's always a bigger one behind it.

I too had the fortunate time to attend Blizzcon. It was a bit lackluster than what people made it out to be but I gleaned enough loot and information to make the trip worthwhile. I think Northrend will be great. I'm still questioning hero classes in general. I'm happy they finally give the elite the option to create a "pre-made" style character. The climb from 1-60, 60-70, and 70-80 will no doubt be very difficult. Sometimes its nice to be able to create a "leveled" character to try something new without the early boring level grind. My question is why did they pick 2 of the most uber aspects of pvp and merged them into a pvp uber class like the "Death Knight". I mean we all know a warlock is pretty darn good at PVP. You can question that statement but that doesn't stop them from being top notch dps'ers, huge amount of stamina, fear and an uber pet. Add that to that the Paladin aspect which is almost a requirement by many 3v3 and 5v5 matches. I know Blizzard has some kind of infatuation with the dead that is obvious but did anyone at Blizzard think no one was going to notice that they just merged 2 uber pvp aspects together in a single class? Before the class is even made, I throw my pokeball out, "Nerf-Bat, I choose you!"
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
The first time they raised the cape it wasn't that bad given how long most of the things outside of the revised EPL had been in the game.

If they are doing a cap raise every year, lol, next game please.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
414
126
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: Anubis
during my run to GM, most of the people i ran with were also in a raiding guild, myself included, we raided 4 days a week and were into Naxx with everything besides C'thun down when i hit GM, most of the others that hit it on that server were the same way, there were 3 from the top Horde guild and they were even more progressed then we were, and then there were a few that just PVPed and never slept
Back on LB, you never could've done that... you literally had to PVP every day for a decent number of hours or you'd never see GM. That's why people could never raid... there simply was no time to do it and achieve a high PVP Rank. I did the grind without a group and I played anywhere from 10 to 12 hours a day on my priest... it was hell.

People wonder why they got rid of that system :p.
yea the system did suck and at the end of my run from rank 13-14 i had to stop raiding

however you could get like 500K honor on Chromaggus and take the top spot for the week
all of teh aliance PVPers worked together and set honor caps, we could do like 80K a day in WSG and AB running a team in like 5 hours so it was pretty easy to make caps
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Bout every month or so I stop by the old realm forum to see how things are. It's nice to see that my realm has gone completely to shit. For a realm that was started about a month from release and at BC release was in top 10 of pop, they're just hitting medium during prime time hours now and pretty much all the elite raid guilds have either transfered or just quit. It's always been known more for drama than progression, but this just really makes it easier to not go back :)


Did find this nice nugget about Kaplan when I checked by the general forums.

50 seconds into the raiding panel at Blizzcon:

"So, we're not here to talk about solo player content today. Or PVP with your welfare Arena epics or anything like that. This round is for people actually go out and earn their epics by killing hard bosses in dungeons."

Yes, I know it was a joke. But I didn't exactly hear on the PVP panel, "So, we're not here to talk about solo player content today. Or people who beat totally scripted encounters that never change. This round is for people who actually go out and earn their epics by fighting foes that constantly adapt to their strategies."
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: lupi
Yes, I know it was a joke. But I didn't exactly hear on the PVP panel, "So, we're not here to talk about solo player content today. Or people who beat totally scripted encounters that never change. This round is for people who actually go out and earn their epics by fighting foes that constantly adapt to their strategies."
[/i]
As you said, it was just a joke. It got a big rise out of the crowd who was primarily full of raiders. However, we all have to face the reality too. The reality is that the primary developers who have the most influence on WoW are raiders themselves. You could tell just by the different panels that they were most happy and excited when discussing the raid and dungeons. The only other session which may have hinted at more interest from Blizz was the quests and lore portion which directly ties into raiding. They have hinted that they enjoy the PvP aspect as well and I am certain Blizz will never shun PvP with a cold shoulder, but the bottom line is that they will design their game the way that they want to do it. I am not a PvP guy, but if I was then I probably wouldn't play WoW.
 

Reckoner

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
10,851
1
81
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: lupi
Yes, I know it was a joke. But I didn't exactly hear on the PVP panel, "So, we're not here to talk about solo player content today. Or people who beat totally scripted encounters that never change. This round is for people who actually go out and earn their epics by fighting foes that constantly adapt to their strategies."
[/i]
As you said, it was just a joke. It got a big rise out of the crowd who was primarily full of raiders. However, we all have to face the reality too. The reality is that the primary developers who have the most influence on WoW are raiders themselves. You could tell just by the different panels that they were most happy and excited when discussing the raid and dungeons. The only other session which may have hinted at more interest from Blizz was the quests and lore portion which directly ties into raiding. They have hinted that they enjoy the PvP aspect as well and I am certain Blizz will never shun PvP with a cold shoulder, but the bottom line is that they will design their game the way that they want to do it. I am not a PvP guy, but if I was then I probably wouldn't play WoW.

Yep, which is why I quit. Raiding is more of a job than having fun.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,380
909
126
Originally posted by: Sraaz
The *only* thing I don't like about the expansion is the level cap raise. i think it's too soon and will render all BC raid instances obsolete.
In my opinion, this is partly because TBC was way too late. Honestly, how much time did most of us spend at 60? My rogue was 60 in January of 2005 and TBC didn't come out until January of 2007! Two years at 60!
 

KillyKillall

Diamond Member
Jul 1, 2004
4,415
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: Sraaz
The *only* thing I don't like about the expansion is the level cap raise. i think it's too soon and will render all BC raid instances obsolete.
In my opinion, this is partly because TBC was way too late. Honestly, how much time did most of us spend at 60? My rogue was 60 in January of 2005 and TBC didn't come out until January of 2007! Two years at 60!
It will be another year before Lich King comes out, so you'll probably feel the same sitting at 70 for so long. This is the nature of MMO's since they are meant to be living ongoing games. I think it would craptastic if levels increased every few months with subpar content added.

Then again, I'm an alt-aholic and haven't moved any to 70 yet - only 50's.
 

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